Crucifixion Dating of Jesus Christ

[Deafsilence]

We can see by the crucifixion account that the Darkness that preceded the Death which was then overcome by the light at His Death.

This indicates that the Passover couldn't occur on the day of the Equinox but must occur after it when the daylight is increasing so even to the resurrection that the moon prevails over the darkness.

 

[Der Alte]

We can see by the crucifixion account that the Darkness that preceded the Death which was then overcome by the light at His Death.
This indicates that the Passover couldn't occur on the day of the Equinox but must occur after it when the daylight is increasing so even to the resurrection that the moon prevails over the darkness.

All these calculations make it appear that the Jews who wrote three of the gospels, Matthew, Mark and John somehow got it wrong. Accordingly the day before the Sabbath was not parasceue, the day after the Sabbath was not the first day of the week. I see no way that 3 Torah observant Jews, Matthew, Mark and John could make a mistake like that.

 

[Clare73]

Believe what you want to believe. It shows here that it doesn't matter. This forum actually CHARGES money$$$ to give people "Christian" consultation. think about that. Believe what you want to believe. Don't listen to a thing I have said because I'm wrong - this world will testify to that.

As does the NT. . .whose testimony is:

Jesus rose on the the first day of the week, the day after the Sabbath, on Sunday (Mt 28:1; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1-9).

He was crucified and buried on the day before the Sabbath, which was Preparation Day. (Mt 27:60-62; Lk 23:54; Jn 19:42).

He was in the tomb on the day of the Sabbath, the seventh day.

 

[Deafsilence]

As does the NT. . .whose testimony is:

Jesus rose on the the first day of the week, the day after the Sabbath, on Sunday (Mt 28:1; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1-9).

He was crucified and buried on the day before the Sabbath, which was Preparation Day. (Mt 27:60-62; Lk 23:54; Jn 19:42).

He was in the tomb on the day of the Sabbath, the seventh day.

I don't dispute any of that. Others here would like you to believe that I do because they have the spirit of opposition.

 

[prodromos]

I don't dispute any of that. Others here would like you to believe that I do because they have the spirit of opposition.

No, we have the spirit of truth. You have a spirit of confusion.

 

[Deafsilence]

Great read that is relevant to this topic since it goes into some depth about what I said before about Passover being about Light and how the Passover must be after the equinox.

The Paschal Canon; fragments | EWTN

EWTN is a global, Catholic Television, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News Network that provides catholic programming and news coverage from around the world.

www.ewtn.com

 

[Torah Keeper]

A Thursday crucifixion makes the most sense to me. Friday would have been the 1st Day of Unleavened Bread(Matsa). It is impossible to get 3 days and 3 nights from a Friday crucifixion, even using parts of days.

Friday afternoon-Day 1. Yeshua was placed in the tomb.
Friday night-Night 1. Shabbat begins.
Saturday morning-Day 2.
Saturday night-Night 2.
Sunday morning-Not counted because Yeshua rose before sunrise.

As you can see above, there is no 3 days and 3 nights with a Friday crucifixion, it is impossible.

The preparation day could only be preparation for Unleavened Bread(Matsa), not preparation for the weekly Shabbat.

Thursday afternoon-Day 1. Yeshua was placed in the tomb.
Thursday night(Matsa)-Night 1.
Friday morning(Matsa)-Day 2.
Friday night-Night 2. Shabbat begins.
Saturday morning-Day 3.
Saturday night-Night 3.
Sunday morning-Not counted because Yeshua was already risen before sunrise.

So this is how the 3 days and 3 nights add up.

 

[Deafsilence]

A Thursday crucifixion makes the most sense to me. Friday would have been the 1st Day of Unleavened Bread(Matsa). It is impossible to get 3 days and 3 nights from a Friday crucifixion, even using parts of days.

Friday afternoon-Day 1. Yeshua was placed in the tomb.
Friday night-Night 1. Shabbat begins.
Saturday morning-Day 2.
Saturday night-Night 2.
Sunday morning-Not counted because Yeshua rose before sunrise.

As you can see above, there is no 3 days and 3 nights with a Friday crucifixion, it is impossible.

The preparation day could only be preparation for Unleavened Bread(Matsa), not preparation for the weekly Shabbat.

Thursday afternoon-Day 1. Yeshua was placed in the tomb.
Thursday night(Matsa)-Night 1.
Friday morning(Matsa)-Day 2.
Friday night-Night 2. Shabbat begins.
Saturday morning-Day 3.
Saturday night-Night 3.
Sunday morning-Not counted because Yeshua was already risen before sunrise.

So this is how the 3 days and 3 nights add up.

Problem is that your obviously equating the sign of Jonah with being in the Grave for 3 days and 3 nights which it never states. The Preparation is for the Feast of Unleavened Bread but it is also the Sabbath Day (High Sabbath). This is all based on a Lunar Calendar and not a solar calendar so there is no Sabbath day following the Feast Day. That day would be the first day of the week in which He is risen on.

 

[Deafsilence]

I've heard others in this thread saying that the 7 day cycle remains unbroken based on the Solar calendar. But what they fail to mention is that if it was so then there couldn't be such thing as a Feast Day falling on a work day. Because for example the Feast of Unleavened Bread is called a High Sabbath:

Joh_19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

So if the Feast of Unleavened Bread is not falling on the typical Weekly Sabbath then it means it fell on a work week (according to their reasoning). This means that their idea of an unbroken 7 days chain is broken. Because it means the command to work on the work days became broken as they were commanded.

 

[prodromos]

Sunday morning-Not counted because Yeshua rose before sunrise.

Sunday began at sunset at the end of the Sabbath. It is counted.
"3 days and 3 nights" is an example of synecdoche, a figure of speech where the part implies the whole or the whole implies the part. Thus Friday evening is "a day and a night", the whole Sabbath is "a day and a night" and Sunday morning is "a day and a night". 3 days and 3 nights.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Problem is that your obviously equating the sign of Jonah with being in the Grave for 3 days and 3 nights which it never states. The Preparation is for the Feast of Unleavened Bread but it is also the Sabbath Day (High Sabbath). This is all based on a Lunar Calendar and not a solar calendar so there is no Sabbath day following the Feast Day. That day would be the first day of the week in which He is risen on.

Do you follow the lunar sabbath? It is a new false doctrine started in the 1990's. Just curious where you get these ideas from.

 

[prodromos]

Because for example the Feast of Unleavened Bread is called a High Sabbath:

The Sabbath in question is called a "high Sabbath" because the feast day happened to fall on the Sabbath that year. The Feast of Unleavened Bread is not anywhere designated as a "high Sabbath". It is called a "holy convocation" because unlike a Sabbath, some work was allowed to be done, the preparation of food. In this instance, because the feast fell on the Sabbath, no food could be prepared on that day, hence the day of preparation the day before on which Christ was crucified.

 

[Deafsilence]

Do you follow the lunar sabbath? It is a new false doctrine started in the 1990's. Just curious where you get these ideas from.

I do not believe that Lunar Sabbaths are a new doctrine. I believe the understanding is as old as the Sabbath observance itself. Also, you may not have read this thread where I have shown that the Jewish Encyclopedia even claims that the Jewish calendar formerly followed Sabbaths according to the lunar phases. So that was well before the 1990s.

 

[Torah Keeper]

The Sabbath in question is called a "high Sabbath" because the feast day happened to fall on the Sabbath that year. The Feast of Unleavened Bread is not anywhere designated as a "high Sabbath". It is called a "holy convocation" because unlike a Sabbath, some work was allowed to be done, the preparation of food. In this instance, because the feast fell on the Sabbath, no food could be prepared on that day, hence the day of preparation the day before on which Christ was crucified.

As someone familiar with how Matsa has been kept historically and today, the Jews in 1st century Israel would have probably understood that Matsa was a non-working day. Businesses would have been closed. Buying and selling was prohibited. You are correct that Matsa is not called a "Sabbath" in the Tanakh. But it is called a "Shabbaton". This word probably means "lesser Sabbath", or "half Sabbath". Today, Orthodox Jews keep Shabbaton the same way as the weekly Sabbath, although they know these are different. Because of the uncertainty of what was allowed or not allowed on a Shabbaton, they made a rule to just keep it as Shabbat.

Now, if you look in the Greek, you will see the untranslated Hebrew word "Shabbaton" in Mark 15:42 προσάββατον. This confirms that the "preparation day" according to Mark, was in fact a preparation for a Shabbaton(προσάββατον), and not a preparation for the weekly Sabbath(σάββατ).

This obvious fact is easily revealed by the Greek text. Somewhere in Church history, someone, probably a gentile, confused this word προσάββατον as being a synonym of προσάββατ. And the error of a Friday crucifixion has been passed down to this day.

Again, it is impossible to get 3 days and 3 nights as Yeshua said, from a Friday crucifixion.

Again, Mark 15:42 tells us this was a preparation for a Shabbaton, not a preparation for the weekly Shabbat.

Blessings

 

[prodromos]

Also, you may not have read this thread where I have shown that the Jewish Encyclopedia even claims that the Jewish calendar formerly followed Sabbaths according to the lunar phases.

All your link gave was to the cover page of the Jewish Encyclopedia in Google books.

 

[prodromos]

Again, it is impossible to get 3 days and 3 nights as Yeshua said, from a Friday crucifixion.

Synecdoche.
A day and a night in Hebrew culture is equivalent to any part of a day.

 

[Deafsilence]

As someone familiar with how Matsa has been kept historically and today, the Jews in 1st century Israel would have probably understood that Matsa was a non-working day. Businesses would have been closed. Buying and selling was prohibited. You are correct that Matsa is not called a "Sabbath" in the Tanakh. But it is called a "Shabbaton". This word probably means "lesser Sabbath", or "half Sabbath". Today, Orthodox Jews keep Shabbaton the same way as the weekly Sabbath, although they know these are different. Because of the uncertainty of what was allowed or not allowed on a Shabbaton, they made a rule to just keep it as Shabbat.

Now, if you look in the Greek, you will see the untranslated Hebrew word "Shabbaton" in Mark 15:42 προσάββατον. This confirms that the "preparation day" according to Mark, was in fact a preparation for a Shabbaton(προσάββατον), and not a preparation for the weekly Sabbath(σάββατ).

This obvious fact is easily revealed by the Greek text. Somewhere in Church history, someone, probably a gentile, confused this word προσάββατον as being a synonym of προσάββατ. And the error of a Friday crucifixion has been passed down to this day.

Again, it is impossible to get 3 days and 3 nights as Yeshua said, from a Friday crucifixion.

Again, Mark 15:42 tells us this was a preparation for a Shabbaton, not a preparation for the weekly Shabbat.

Blessings

The Word is used for the Sabbath also. Look here at it is other use in the LXX:

Psa_92:1 ειςG1519 PREP τηνG3588 T-ASF ημερανG2250 N-ASF τουG3588 T-GSN προσαββατουG4315 N-GSN οτεG3753 ADV κατωκισταιV-RPI-3S ηG3588 T-NSF γηG1065 N-NSF αινοςG136 N-NSM ωδηςG3592 N-GSF τωG3588 T-DSM δαυιδN-PRI οG3588 T-NSM κυριοςG2962 N-NSM εβασιλευσενG936 V-AAI-3S ευπρεπειανG2143 N-ASF ενεδυσατοG1746 V-AMI-3S ενεδυσατοG1746 V-AMI-3S κυριοςG2962 N-NSM δυναμινG1411 N-ASF καιG2532 CONJ περιεζωσατοG4024 V-AMI-3S καιG2532 CONJ γαρG1063 PRT εστερεωσενG4732 V-AAI-3S τηνG3588 T-ASF οικουμενηνG3611 V-PMPAS ητιςG3748 RI-NSF ουG3364 ADV σαλευθησεταιG4531 V-FPI-3S

This is a preparation for a Sabbath and that Sabbath was a High Sabbath (Feast Day). There is not 3 days and 3 nights (24 hour periods) between the crucifixion and resurrection.

 

[Der Alte]

Synecdoche.
A day and a night in Hebrew culture is equivalent to any part of a day.

Jewish Encyclopedia- DAY (Hebrew, "yom"):​

By: Emil G. Hirsch, Michael Friedländer​

In the Bible, the season of light (Gen. i. 5), lasting "from dawn [lit. "the rising of the morning"] to the coming forth of the stars" (Neh. iv. 15, 17). The term "day" is used also to denote a period of twenty-four hours (Ex. xxi. 21). In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though of the first day only a few minutes remained after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day. Again, a man who hears of a vow made by his wife or his daughter, and desires to cancel the vow, must do so on the same day on which he hears of it, as otherwise the protest has no effect; even if the hearing takes place a little time before night, the annulment must be done within that little time. The day is reckoned from evening to evening—i.e., night and day—except in reference to sacrifices, where daytime and the night following constitute one day (Lev. vii. 15; see Calendar). "The day" denotes: (a) Day of the Lord; (b) the Day of Atonement; (c) the treatise of the Mishnah that contains the laws concerning the Day of Atonement (See Yoma and Sabbath).

DAY - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

jewishencyclopedia.com

 

[Deafsilence]

So what day of the the month is this?:

Mat 26:1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples,
Mat 26:2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
Mat 26:3 Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,
Mat 26:4 And consulted that they might take Jesus by subtilty, and kill him.
Mat 26:5 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar among the people.

It is the 10th of the month when those chief priests and scribes and the elders of the people came together. We know that because the Lamb is selected on the 10th day of the month (see Exodus 12).

Now notice it says after two days is the Feast. This means that if this was the 10th then after two days would be the 13th. So they were going to have observed the Passover Feast on the 13th.

 

[Deafsilence]

The Passover is all about Light. In fact, the ministry of Christ is about Light. He comes into the World during the Feast of Lights and goes out at the beginning of the Increase of the Light of the year.

Apostle John speaks of how he bore witness of that Light. Then we see Jesus before the Passover, explaining how His followers are the light of the world and to spread that light. So in the beginning of this thread, I had deleted some posts because I have been studying some things I found in some ancient texts that were confirming my findings but changing the days on which I believe the Last Supper took place (but the Date I have for the crucifixion is unchanged). Based on this analysis, it confirms that the 3 days and 3 nights are as stated. In the Book of Genesis it never says that the days and nights are dependent on when the sun or the moon shine. Remember the Darkness and Light and existed before the Sun and the moon. So when we read of the sign of Jonah we should not take that to mean 3 24 hour periods but rather simply as 3 periods of daylight and 3 periods of darkness. Additionally, if there was any sign that everyone would agree on (both opposers and adherents to Christ) would be that a supernatural form of darkness came upon the scene during the crucifixion. There could only be the understanding that this sign was part of the 3 days and 3 nights as no other explanation could be correlated to it.

But moving unto the last supper (Passover meal), it is clear that this mean was not on the 6th day (Preparation Day). However, since it is said that this would take place after 2 days and given in the context of when the Jews assembled together with the elder to comspire to put Him to death this makes it two days after the 10th of the month. So this means that Jesus would have the last supper just prior to the evening of the 4th day of the week and be apprehended on the 4th day of the week. What is significant about this is that the event is about Light!

What happens in 31 AD on the 3rd day of that second week is when the Light is first advancing ahead of darkness. Therefore, the True Passover, would have begun AT THAT TIME. So Matthew 26:17 that it was the first day of the Passover, this is referring to that day or the 3rd day of the 2nd week of the 1st month or rather the 13th of Nissan.