the Mark

[sparow]

Nero. He comitted suicide by a stab wound yet his orders to lay siege on Jerusalem continued through Vespasian and then finally finished through Titus.
Sometimes things are very plainly written if you apply a bit of common sence. A deadly wound is just that , it caused death. The healing is the carring out of his orders. Vespasian had all authority of the first beast.

FYI, I am mainly a Historicist looking forward to the last day which is His second comming.
Blessings.

If things were so plainly written there would not be 10000 different opinions.

The Bible is a system of repeating patterns; the deadly wound probably had it's beginning in the Garden, when Eve handed Adam the apple and said you will not surely die.

You see this pattern in Israel; every now and then God gives them their come uppence and a remnant comes out and re-engages with God; after a time sin comes back to life and brings with it captivity, either mental or physical and the cycle is repeated.

This pattern is also seen in the beast; from the captivity the beast received three deadly wounds before Rome; Rome went to sleep after 300 AD but was woken in 490 when the Universal Church claimed to inherit the Roman Empire, on the basis of a forged will. Not only did the Universal Church usurp the role of Christ, but also the property of the Roman Empire. When Napoleon put the Pope in jail, this is considered a deadly wound and the pattern is complete; whether it was the
beast who received the deadly wound, or the Prostitute is academic. The deadly wound is important to identify the first beast but only one of seven heads was wounded. What this means to me is, the Church is not innocent but the beast is much bigger than The Church. Mussolini restored the Vatican to the Church (seventy acres), so the Church/State is healed, but was the Church the seventh head. Was Nero the seventh head?

 

[Tolworth John]

You left out part the about the Father giving some to Him.

I assume your context is Universalism. If this is true read Matt 24:31 ; other places He said he would not easily let go

How you can assume that I don't know.
Jesus will loose krone of those who are his, that is those who in life are Christian. Those who in life were not Christian and died not a christian are as john3: 18 says condemned.

 

[Tolworth John]

I believe 666 is only intended to inspire us to research the image of the beast

Please re read the quote of revelation.
It tells you what 666 represents, man or humanity.

 

[sparow]

I think there's truth in the notion that some things are meant to be more fully understood in the time of its fulfillment. However, if 666 didn't make any sense to those to whom it was written in church history, why would God give it at all? Most of history would never utilize that code word!

So I do think it was meant to be understood in a preliminary way. And the way it was commonly understood was as a numerological value of a name, ie a name with a numerical value. The name could add up to Nero, or it could add up to the King or Rome. We know it wasn't Nero, but perhaps he was a type?

Therefore, it seems more likely to me that it refers to the King of Rome, which is how an early Church Father saw it. I think this European government will become more apparent as a Roman renaissance as it develops. And yes, I think it will seek to control who buys and sells.

As to the image of the Beast, I think it will simply be a kind of representation of the Antichristian system of government. The idea that the image "speaks" is over my head--I don't know what it means except that unlike idols this thing claims Deity. Idols don't speak. They aren't really gods. But this government claims to speak for God. It has satanic authority.

John is revealing what he saw regarding the Day of the Lord which I Believe starts with Christ and ends with Christ, the first white horse and the last white horse. There are three beasts, there is the leopard like beast with seven heads and ten horns with ten crowns; then there is the two horned beast who causes men to worship the first beast, then it causes men to make an image which is the third beast.

There is some confusion here; some translators have, make an image to the beast, others have make an image of the beast. I expect both to be true; to the beast is very religious; of the beast is more political.

The image of the Beast is associated with the number 666, but the man (or woman) is not revealed yet. The image of the beast is described in chapter 17 having seven heads, and ten horns. The ten horns are kings with out kingdoms (probably Globalists) who serve the beast and make war with the Lamb. 666 will only be relative in our time.

The beasts are essentially institutions and in ways are servants of God, as was Nebuchadnezzar. Speaks probably means legislation. Symbolic language needs to be understood, not taken literally.

 

[sparow]

How you can assume that I don't know.
Jesus will loose krone of those who are his, that is those who in life are Christian. Those who in life were not Christian and died not a christian are as john3: 18 says condemned.

My assumptions are based on your incorrect statements.

John 15:1-6, If one, anyone, abide not in Me, he is cast forth.

Abide is time dependent, if one ceases abiding one is gone. I assume you believe, "Once in grace always in grace".

 

[sparow]

Please re read the quote of revelation.
It tells you what 666 represents, man or humanity.

I believe the scripture says 666 represents a particular man.

 

[RandyPNW]

John is revealing what he saw regarding the Day of the Lord which I Believe starts with Christ and ends with Christ, the first white horse and the last white horse. There are three beasts, there is the leopard like beast with seven heads and ten horns with ten crowns; then there is the two horned beast who causes men to worship the first beast, the it causes men to make an image which is the third beast.

There is some confusion here; some translators have, make an image to the beast, others have make an image of the beast. I expect both to be true; to the beast is very religious; of the beast is more political.

The image of the Beast is associated with the number 666, but the man (or woman) is not revealed yet. The image of the beast is described in chapter 17 having seven heads, and ten horns. The ten horns are kings with out kingdoms (probably Globalists) who serve the beast and make war with the Lamb. 666 will only be relative in our time.

The beasts are essentially institutions and in ways are servants of God, as was Nebuchadnezzar. Speaks probably means legislation. Symbolic language needs to be understood, not taken literally.

Your views are noted. Thanks.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The mark of the Beast is 666; or the wise can determine the mark from the number. I have examined a number of guesses but they do not work for me.

What I have come up with is 666 represents an equilateral triangle; a symbol shared with free masons; presumably innocently.

While it remains for us to see the extent to which 666 associates itself with Masonic ideology, and although there could be something to it, I think it's safer to infer an answer through a more generally prophetic level of inquiry when interpreting the meaning of this cryptic number.

More than likely, we should see it as a reference to a specific man whom we all can biblically identify.

But, some folks here will disagree ...

 

[sparow]

While it remains for us to see the extent to which 666 associates itself with Masonic ideology, and although there could be something to it, I think it's safer to infer an answer through a more generally prophetic level of inquiry when interpreting the meaning of this cryptic number.

More than likely, we should see it as a reference to a specific man whom we all can biblically identify.

But, some folks here will disagree ...

I think the number 666 (assuming that is what the scripture says), will identify the man when he comes. So that I do not duplicate posts see post # 8 on same forum - Matthew 25:6, The midnight Cry: Thoughts & Opinions on its fulfillment

I don't know how to provide the link.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think the number 666 (assuming that is what the scripture says), will identify the man when he comes. So that I do not duplicate posts see post # 8 on same forum - Matthew 25:6, The midnight Cry: Thoughts & Opinions on its fulfillment

I don't know how to provide the link.

That's interesting to know. I think he's already here and has been for quite some time, but that's assuming my interpretive approach is correct.

 

[dfw69]

The mark imo will be 3 tattoo type things

the name …most likely “YHWH” since he will claim to be the god of Israel

the mark …Aleph Tav, Hebrew for alpha omega

the number …of commandments he will impose

 

[Timtofly]

The thing about 666 is it identifies a man or person who the image is of; the person is presumably dead.

Yes, Adam died prior to the Flood.

I believe Revelation is a puzzle to keep us interactive and awake; it is not a matter of being able to know in advance but to recognise when the time comes. The two horned beast causes men to make an image of the first beast, but what beast; will it be the statue with the gold head, or a statue of Nebuchadnezzar himself? It is a statue that is given a spirit that enables it to talk and cause. And is this literal or symbolic?

The image is the beast that all keep calling the AC. The FP is the only human from the sea beast. Satan is the 3rd party speaking liking a dragon, coming out of the pit, pretending to be peaceful, but an angel of deception.

 

[Timtofly]

My assumptions are based on your incorrect statements.

John 15:1-6, If one, anyone, abide not in Me, he is cast forth.

Abide is time dependent, if one ceases abiding one is gone. I assume you believe, "Once in grace always in grace".

Who surgically removes parts of the body?

 

[RandyPNW]

The mark of the Beast is 666; or the wise can determine the mark from the number. I have examined a number of guesses but they do not work for me.

What I have come up with is 666 represents an equilateral triangle; a symbol shared with free masons; presumably innocently.

666 is a numerological value for the name of the Beast. The numbers, at the time, would've referred to either the original King of Rome, or Nero. I believe it referred to the original Latin King, indicating the Beast would be emperor over a revived Roman Empire.

Although some would've identified Nero with 666, it didn't work out. So it had to, in my mind, refer to the original King of Rome.

It was simply an identification with Rome, and not a means of identifying any particular person in the last days. It will be obvious to Christians when a man comes to preside over 10 European countries and 7 of their leaders.

 

[sparow]

666 is a numerological value for the name of the Beast. The numbers, at the time, would've referred to either the original King of Rome, or Nero. I believe it referred to the original Latin King, indicating the Beast would be emperor over a revived Roman Empire.

Although some would've identified Nero with 666, it didn't work out. So it had to, in my mind, refer to the original King of Rome.

It was simply an identification with Rome, and not a means of identifying any particular person in the last days. It will be obvious to Christians when a man comes to preside over 10 European countries and 7 of their leaders.

I believe the issue is to do with language and communication. We are dealing with spiritual (for want of a better word) matters; in Hebrew we would say we are dealing with breath, wind or breeze matters. So in Hebrew to speak about spiritual matters, they, the Hebrews, used what in English we approximate with symbolic language and parables; so taking 666 literally may be to approach the problem from a wrong trajectory.

There are two sides; with God and against God. Those with God receive the seal of God which will be visible to God and will most likely be the Law written on the heart and mind.

The seal of the Beast is not spiritual and is given, and it would not be necessary for the recipient to be aware of it; should the mark be removed they will find out when they cannot buy or sell.

 

[RandyPNW]

I believe the issue is to do with language and communication. We are dealing with spiritual (for want of a better word) matters; in Hebrew we would say we are dealing with breath, wind or breeze matters. So in Hebrew to speak about spiritual matters, they, the Hebrews, used what in English we approximate with symbolic language and parables; so taking 666 literally may be to approach the problem from a wrong trajectory.

There are two sides; with God and against God. Those with God receive the seal of God which will be visible to God and will most likely be the Law written on the heart and mind.

The seal of the Beast is not spiritual and is given, and it would not be necessary for the recipient to be aware of it; should the mark be removed they will find out when they cannot buy or sell.

That is a bit too "obscure" for me. As Paul said, we can't understand mumbo jumbo. We need to hear something clearly in our own language. It's one thing to experience the "groaning" of the Spirit within us. It is an entirely different thing to communicate.

 

[sparow]

That is a bit too "obscure" for me. As Paul said, we can't understand mumbo jumbo. We need to hear something clearly in our own language. It's one thing to experience the "groaning" of the Spirit within us. It is an entirely different thing to communicate.

I am not a good communicator, a few understand me most do not. “Clearly in our language”, would typically mean doctrines of men (based on or in place of the teaching of God). It is alright for us to toss ideas back and forth if we learn learn something in the process; although doing it publicly could get ones name on a list.

 

[RandyPNW]

I am not a good communicator, a few understand me most do not. “Clearly in our language”, would typically mean doctrines of men (based on or in place of the teaching of God). It is alright for us to toss ideas back and forth if we learn learn something in the process; although doing it publicly could get ones name on a list.

I see no danger of that so far??? Paul used a similar phrase, speaking of the same type of thing. So it makes sense.

2 Cor 1.12 We have done so, relying not on worldly wisdom but on God’s grace.

 

[sparow]

I see no danger of that so far??? Paul used a similar phrase, speaking of the same type of thing. So it makes sense.

2 Cor 1.12 We have done so, relying not on worldly wisdom but on God’s grace.

I can accept thee is a time or context when 2 Cor 1.12 would work; Do you know the difference between worldly wisdom and the wisdom God requires us to have?

Wisdom is required so as not to run out oil.

Wisdom is required in order to be aware:

Aware of the leaven of the Pharisees. Matt 6:6 16:11,12

Aware of covertness. Lk 12:15

Aware of respecting persons. Mk 12:38

Aware of the errors of the wicked. 2Pet 3:17

God's grace or patience does not protect against sin, God's grace only allow us time, and time is running out. So who should we follow, Paul or Jesus?