the Mark

[sparow]

the mark of the beast is the beasts ecclesiastical authority

The SDA believes the Beast is a Church, I believe the Church rides on the Beast's back.

 

[HTacianas]

I am not able to agree with you. Did nero caesar brand people on their hand or on their forehead? It is the image of the Beast that causes the mark to be received. Do you know who the Two Horned Beast is who creates the image of the Beast? Would the image be described like this, “who is able to make war with him”?

I believe Nero Caesar would have been dead when John wrote Revelation, and I believe chapter 13 is prophetic and not historical.

I suspect the dragon is Rome or the first beast; the Beast is the two horned beast; and the false prophet is the image of the beast.

In Hebrew and Greek all words and names are strings of numbers that can be added up and his or her name adds up to 666.

If we look to history, we find that none of those things were all that unusual at the time. By way of example, around 112 AD Pliny, Roman governor of Bythnia, wrote a letter to Emperor Trajan regarding the trials of accused Christians. He said in part:

Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image...

Worshipping the image of the Emperor was common at the time, and something Christians were prohibited from doing. The "dragon" of the Revelation is the same dragon that took one third of the angels from heaven into rebellion, see Rev 12:9. The dragon appears throughout the Revelation as the power causing people to do bad things in general, including the slaughter of the innocents leading to the flight to Egypt, see Rev 12:4-6. The dragon is Satan.

Long story short, the beast of the Revelation is the Roman Emperor, and in the end, was Vespasian. Vespasian led the initial invasion of Israel that led to the destruction of the temple. While he was in Israel he was appointed Emperor and returned to Rome, leaving his son Titus to continue the invasion and the ultimate sacking of Jerusalem. Titus caused men to fall down and worship the image of his father, killing thousands upon thousands in different ways, including with the beasts of the earth, see Rev 6:8.

This is a very long study, and in it you'll find the sea turning to blood, men seeking death and not finding it, the pain of a scorpion sting, and on and on.

 

[sparow]

Nero Ceasar = 666
Wikipedia's
Nero Caesar" in the Hebrew alphabet is נרון קסר NRON QSR, which when interpreted numerically represents the numbers 50 200 6 50 100 60 200, which add up to 666.

I do not have a problem with what you say, except there would be a number off names that would add up to 666.

Nero died in 68 AD which is around the time the Gospels were written; I expect Revelation was written after Nero's death; is chapter 13 prophetic or historical?

The two horned Beast causes the world to worship the first Beast, then it makes an image of the first Beast, and it is the image of the Beast to whom the 666 applies. Is Nero brought back to life, or will it be a different man?

 

[sparow]

Yes, we've all looked into this for many years, and it's an elusive question. Many of us believe it is yet to be revealed--the Scriptures only state it will exist.

One of my favorite beliefs is that 666 adds up to the name of the original King of Rome. It was one of several attempts, by John, to state that the Roman Empire was the 4th and final Kingdom in Dan 2 and 7.

John could not just come out and state this, since he was imprisoned by Rome. So he had to tell riddles. He told a couple of these riddles in Rev 17, indicating the same, that the Harlot was a city of 7 hills, and that it was the 6th in a train of 7 historic kingdoms. Both of these riddles spell out Rome. So I think 666 does precisely the same thing, whether it uses Nero as an example, or it refers back to the original King of Rome.

I said this elsewhere....

There are many speculations, almost as old as the Bible text itself, regarding the meaning of 666 or to whom it is referencing. The Catholic Church states that Irenaeus (130 - 202 A.D.), an early church "father," wrote about whom this number might reference. He stated that the Greek word "Lateinos," when given their corresponding Greek values and added up (30 + 1 + 330 + 5 + 10 + 50 + 70 + 200), equals 666. The word itself means "Latin man."

Lateinos is perhaps the equivalent of Latino. That is, the Antichrist will be Latin, or Roman.

King Lateinos was the founder of Rome and the Roman Empire. In the Greek, every letter has a numerical value. The numerical value for “Lateinos” is 666. Therefore, the beast is clearly identified as the Roman Empire, as the number 666 identifies the founder of the Roman Empire–Lateinos.
What is the Number of the Beast? | Church of the Eternal God.

I think it is more important to be interactive with scripture than to be right.

 

[sparow]

If we look to history, we find that none of those things were all that unusual at the time. By way of example, around 112 AD Pliny, Roman governor of Bythnia, wrote a letter to Emperor Trajan regarding the trials of accused Christians. He said in part:

Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image...

Worshipping the image of the Emperor was common at the time, and something Christians were prohibited from doing. The "dragon" of the Revelation is the same dragon that took one third of the angels from heaven into rebellion, see Rev 12:9. The dragon appears throughout the Revelation as the power causing people to do bad things in general, including the slaughter of the innocents leading to the flight to Egypt, see Rev 12:4-6. The dragon is Satan.

Long story short, the beast of the Revelation is the Roman Emperor, and in the end, was Vespasian. Vespasian led the initial invasion of Israel that led to the destruction of the temple. While he was in Israel he was appointed Emperor and returned to Rome, leaving his son Titus to continue the invasion and the ultimate sacking of Jerusalem. Titus caused men to fall down and worship the image of his father, killing thousands upon thousands in different ways, including with the beasts of the earth, see Rev 6:8.

This is a very long study, and in it you'll find the sea turning to blood, men seeking death and not finding it, the pain of a scorpion sting, and on and on.

The reason symbolic language is used is because the subject cannot be discussed using specific language; the necessary words and concepts have not been developed.

When you say, "The dragon is Satan", I agree with the words, but what they mean to me is, the Dragon is a destructive adversary, satan being an adjective not a noun.

What you describe could be a type that is going to be repeated.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

The SDA believes the Beast is a Church, I believe the Church rides on the Beast's back.

Revelation 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast,

Revelation 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Revelation 13:15
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

 

[RandyPNW]

I think it is more important to be interactive with scripture than to be right.

To get Scripture wrong is dangerous. Consider the Pharisees of Jesus' time?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I do not have a problem with what you say, except there would be a number off names that would add up to 666.

Nero died in 68 AD which is around the time the Gospels were written; I expect Revelation was written after Nero's death; is chapter 13 prophetic or historical?

The two horned Beast causes the world to worship the first Beast, then it makes an image of the first Beast, and it is the image of the Beast to whom the 666 applies. Is Nero brought back to life, or will it be a different man?

I do not have a problem with what you say, except there would be a number off names that would add up to 666.

Nero died in 68 AD which is around the time the Gospels were written; I expect Revelation was written after Nero's death; is chapter 13 prophetic or historical?

The two horned Beast causes the world to worship the first Beast, then it makes an image of the first Beast, and it is the image of the Beast to whom the 666 applies. Is Nero brought back to life, or will it be a different man?

Indeed if Revelation was written after 70AD my view would be problematic however, I am confident that taking the view of an early writing can be found within its verses. I see Chaper 13 as historical.
The beast of the sea is Nero
The beast of the earth is Vespasian
Many details fit quite well but you have to read historical accounts.
Blessings.

 

[sparow]

Revelation 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast,

Revelation 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Revelation 13:15
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Remembering that Revelation was for Jesus's followers.

Rev 13:4 Who or what is the beast that the dragon gave his authority to; was it the Institution, the composite of Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, or was the beast Caesar? "They" would be Pagan who always worship men or their image (still today). They can be called a church, but if you call Rome simply their Church, you would only be correct if you understood the matter correctly.

Rev 13:12 They are now a different generation; the question I ask is, "Do they genuinely worship the Beast or do the worship under duress"? I favour genuinely worship; the next question is how could the two horned beast cause genuine worship; the metaphors describing that worship are fornication and drinking wine; doesn't sound like a Church, more like corrupt government.

Rev 13:15 Here we are trees in the forest watching it happen, be careful.

 

[sparow]

To get Scripture wrong is dangerous. Consider the Pharisees of Jesus' time?

It is moments like this that I was better educated. A person who seeks God and searches the scriptures daily will grow into something and is going somewhere; the person who thinks they are right (like the Pharisees) is like a dead stump in a paddock, going no where.

 

[RandyPNW]

It is moments like this that I was better educated. A person who seeks God and searches the scriptures daily will grow into something and is going somewhere; the person who thinks they are right (like the Pharisees) is like a dead stump in a paddock, going no where.

Reminds me of the statement Jesus made about the Jew who thanked God he was not like some when he was the one who was rejected.

 

[sparow]

Rev 13: 18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.
The alternative reading for the number is a man is ' humanities number.'

May I point out something Jesus said. in John 6: 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

It is Jesus who keeps us Christian, yes if we are in the last days life will get very difficult for Christians in a hostile world.
Concentrate on what is important.
Living visible as a Christian.

I don't remember if I have replied to this or not, so I'll remember this.

I believe 666 is only intended to inspire us to research the image of the beast that is given a spirit that can speak and cause things like the Climate Change myth, or any thing else that is destructive or burning the Past bridges so we cannot go back, like blowing up coal powered power stations. I don't think the fine detail will be known until it happens; so we need to be prepared to recognise the signs ahead of time so not to be trapped. The Man (or woman) may not be revealed yet but he or she is doing the dirty work, covid didn't complete the Job, Climate Change is loosing traction, A recession may not do it, it may take a world war to complete the new reset.

I am not sure what it is or why you are pointing it out; for me to agree I would need to know who us Christians are; if you refer to those who are called by the Father and chosen by Jesus, I agree; if you mean those universalists, I disagree.

 

[sparow]

It can also be King Solomon and ironically, King Solomon is a very important character in Freemasonry.

The FM logo is really two triangles up and down like the Jewish "Star of David" hexagram which is also claimed to be the same symbol used by King Solomon in myths.

Unsurprisingly many other symbolisms or rituals in Freemasonry is strongly linked to Judaism - the Jewish Orthodox religion.

It's somewhat ridiculous Freemasonry claims it isn't a religion but had so many things "borrowed" from Judaism. Obviously, the Christian members also claim it's not a religion. Is how very strong their mind conditioning if they can believe the lie is the truth.

As a Christian, you can't be in Judaism as well. The religion is hostile to Christ and in some degree hostile to Christians as well. Judaists does not acknowledge Christ. It's the same religion that came from Pharisee.

The gold and the lion symbol link Solomon to Babylon; the Caesars were Indo-European as were Persia; in the beginning Rome was a Greek speeking Republic; In 600AD there was a Jewish king of Babylon who allegedly killed 25000 Persian Christians. Didn't Paul say not Jews are Jews.

 

[sparow]

Believe what Jesus said.

he said that he would loose None of those who are his.

You left out part the about the Father giving some to Him.

I assume your context is Universalism. If this is true read Matt 24:31 ; other places He said he would not easily let go

 

[sparow]

Here are some things that I have noticed,...
Observations About The Mark Of The Beast...

Interesting.

 

[sparow]

the mark of the beast is the beasts ecclesiastical authority

The thing about 666 is it identifies a man or person who the image is of; the person is presumably dead.

 

[sparow]

Yes, we've all looked into this for many years, and it's an elusive question. Many of us believe it is yet to be revealed--the Scriptures only state it will exist.

One of my favorite beliefs is that 666 adds up to the name of the original King of Rome. It was one of several attempts, by John, to state that the Roman Empire was the 4th and final Kingdom in Dan 2 and 7.

John could not just come out and state this, since he was imprisoned by Rome. So he had to tell riddles. He told a couple of these riddles in Rev 17, indicating the same, that the Harlot was a city of 7 hills, and that it was the 6th in a train of 7 historic kingdoms. Both of these riddles spell out Rome. So I think 666 does precisely the same thing, whether it uses Nero as an example, or it refers back to the original King of Rome.

I said this elsewhere....

There are many speculations, almost as old as the Bible text itself, regarding the meaning of 666 or to whom it is referencing. The Catholic Church states that Irenaeus (130 - 202 A.D.), an early church "father," wrote about whom this number might reference. He stated that the Greek word "Lateinos," when given their corresponding Greek values and added up (30 + 1 + 330 + 5 + 10 + 50 + 70 + 200), equals 666. The word itself means "Latin man."

Lateinos is perhaps the equivalent of Latino. That is, the Antichrist will be Latin, or Roman.

King Lateinos was the founder of Rome and the Roman Empire. In the Greek, every letter has a numerical value. The numerical value for “Lateinos” is 666. Therefore, the beast is clearly identified as the Roman Empire, as the number 666 identifies the founder of the Roman Empire–Lateinos.
What is the Number of the Beast? | Church of the Eternal God.

I believe Revelation is a puzzle to keep us interactive and awake; it is not a matter of being able to know in advance but to recognise when the time comes. The two horned beast causes men to make an image of the first beast, but what beast; will it be the statue with the gold head, or a statue of Nebuchadnezzar himself? It is a statue that is given a spirit that enables it to talk and cause. And is this literal or symbolic?

 

[sparow]

Indeed if Revelation was written after 70AD my view would be problematic however, I am confident that taking the view of an early writing can be found within its verses. I see Chaper 13 as historical.
The beast of the sea is Nero
The beast of the earth is Vespasian
Many details fit quite well but you have to read historical accounts.
Blessings.

The Beast received a deadly wound that was healed which Beast was that?

 

[RandyPNW]

I believe Revelation is a puzzle to keep us interactive and awake; it is not a matter of being able to know in advance but to recognise when the time comes. The two horned beast causes men to make an image of the first beast, but what beast; will it be the statue with the gold head, or a statue of Nebuchadnezzar himself? It is a statue that is given a spirit that enables it to talk and cause. And is this literal or symbolic?

I think there's truth in the notion that some things are meant to be more fully understood in the time of its fulfillment. However, if 666 didn't make any sense to those to whom it was written in church history, why would God give it at all? Most of history would never utilize that code word!

So I do think it was meant to be understood in a preliminary way. And the way it was commonly understood was as a numerological value of a name, ie a name with a numerical value. The name could add up to Nero, or it could add up to the King or Rome. We know it wasn't Nero, but perhaps he was a type?

Therefore, it seems more likely to me that it refers to the King of Rome, which is how an early Church Father saw it. I think this European government will become more apparent as a Roman renaissance as it develops. And yes, I think it will seek to control who buys and sells.

As to the image of the Beast, I think it will simply be a kind of representation of the Antichristian system of government. The idea that the image "speaks" is over my head--I don't know what it means except that unlike idols this thing claims Deity. Idols don't speak. They aren't really gods. But this government claims to speak for God. It has satanic authority.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The Beast received a deadly wound that was healed which Beast was that?

Nero. He comitted suicide by a stab wound yet his orders to lay siege on Jerusalem continued through Vespasian and then finally finished through Titus.
Sometimes things are very plainly written if you apply a bit of common sence. A deadly wound is just that , it caused death. The healing is the carring out of his orders. Vespasian had all authority of the first beast.

FYI, I am mainly a Historicist looking forward to the last day which is His second comming.
Blessings.