What should you do with your millions?

[Bobber]

Lots of bible quotes, but what are those millionaires to do to enter that K of H?

Rich toward God? Does that mean anything relevant to the question? Lay up treasures in Heaven - like doing good works, I suppose. And hanging on to the money?

There is a real question for Christians here. (And for others too.)

I will say this if a Christian is mega rich they really, really need to make it a matter of constant prayer what God wants them to do with it. One might seek to justify big mansions and spending lots on one's self but it would be a scary thing to be in a place where one says I've got much laid up for many years and eat drink and be merry. Prayer, prayer and more prayer should be the mode of people in this position.

That's not to say that God didn't bless one with wealth like Job, Abraham or others but where is one's heart when it comes to all that they have. One's without much should consider they might be actually in a very good position for they're ever conscious that they need to look to God as being their source on a daily basis. If a wealthy person loses this way of thinking they could end up on a wrong road.

 

[The happy Objectivist]

The Gospels claim: 'It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'

According to number of american millionaires at DuckDuckGo there are more than 15 million American millionaire households.

I dare say some of them post here. Are they condemned to be denied entry to the 'Kingdom of God'? Or is there another route to Heaven for the rich?

That's all, fifteen million? I would have thought it was a larger number.

 

[Whyayeman]

That's all, fifteen million? I would have thought it was a larger number.

Perhaps you are right.

It refers to 'households'. So there will be more if you count spouses and offspring, some of whom have a share in the family wealth.

 

[Astrid]

Except there is no selective interpretation. There is an interpretation which takes into account the whole of scripture and is not as extreme as yours. Yours being particularly cynical because it ignores what the Church actually did and how these verses have been interpreted by the lives lived by the Apostles.

Do we live according to your interpretation of the Lord's words? Cynical and petty? Or according to the interpretation of the saints? The latter.



You are wrong and you're not sincere on this subject. You simply deny the Christian explanation and insist on your own. Which you are free to do, but clearly your atheist interpretation of Christ is false. As has been demonstrated.

The Christian explanation has 40,000
sects and many an individual with a
personal explanation.

 

[Astrid]

I will say this if a Christian is mega rich they really, really need to make it a matter of constant prayer what God wants them to do with it. One might seek to justify big mansions and spending lots on one's self but it would be a scary thing to be in a place where one says I've got much laid up for many years and eat drink and be merry. Prayer, prayer and more prayer should be the mode of people in this position.

That's not to say that God didn't bless one with wealth like Job, Abraham or others but where is one's heart when it comes to all that they have. One's without much should consider they might be actually in a very good position for they're ever conscious that they need to look to God as being their source on a daily basis. If a wealthy person loses this way of thinking they could end up on a wrong road.

Eat drink and be merry?
Right people usually get their
money by being workaholics,
not thro idle dissipation.
I personally have for more than I need,
mostly from inheritance, but I don't
drink or party, and at 48kg I'm not
much for gluttony.
Nor do I have a closet full of
Hermes a c Chanel.

As for sharing, my conscience is
my guide, I don't try to put that
responsibility of on a third party
real or imagined.

 

[jayem]

Not to go off-topic, but tonight’s Powerball jackpot is $1.6 billion. It’s the largest US lottery jackpot in history. If there’s only one winner, who takes the lump sum, the after-tax payout will be over $700 million. Buy some tickets if you’re so inclined.

BTW—has God already determined who’ll win the lottery? Or does he leave it to chance? That might be an interesting discussion in a separate thread.

 

[Whyayeman]

... tonight’s Powerball jackpot is $1.6 billion...

A while ago I suggested that billionaires could give away every penny over the first billion dollars. It was not well received. One poster said it was the worst idea he had ever heard.

It appears the the Revenue Service has a similar idea to mine, only less generous...

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

The Christian explanation has 40,000
sects and many an individual with a
personal explanation.

Well, yeah, there are different Christian understandings on this issue.

 

[Whyayeman]

Well, yeah, there are different Christian understandings on this issue.

And some are more - shall we say - more rigorous than others. I suppose at the time that Matthew was recording his memoires (or setting down what others had reported to him) most people were border-line destitute; the very sight of a rich man would have been a rare and exciting phenomenon.

To those who took the trouble, thank you. I have not really understood why Christian millionaires think they can enjoy their wealth and still keep their ticket to Paradise. It will be a disappointment to those who tried to explain - as it is to me.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

And some are more - shall we say - more rigorous than others. I suppose at the time that Matthew was recording his memoires (or setting down what others had reported to him) most people were border-line destitute; the very sight of a rich man would have been a rare and exciting phenomenon.

To those who took the trouble, thank you. I have not really understood why Christian millionaires think they can enjoy their wealth and still keep their ticket to Paradise. It will be a disappointment to those who tried to explain - as it is to me.

Some are more thought out than others, some are less thought out than others. Your interpretation for instance, which is one I've seen some Christians hold, would render Christians a peasant class, unable to do or affect anything. It suggests that Christians can only properly be poor. It's badly thought out and doesn't take into account the reality of money, only idealistic notions that by getting rid of wealth totally can we be Christian. The historic Christian interpretation, which allows for rich people to actually contribute to the life of the Church and understands that wealth has a purpose beyond merely fulfilling the self and acquiring more of it is a more thought out interpretation than what has been offered by you or Christian idealists who think that.

As to a Christian millionaire enjoying his wealth. If he did so honestly, if he earned that wealth due to wise investments and hard work why should he not enjoy the fruit of his labour? If he has uplifted his brother in Christ, invested into the community of believers and aided the Church he has done exactly what God expected of him. He has his own temptations to deal with and Christ warns of it, but said Christian millionaire by being a millionaire has done little wrong.

 

[Astrid]

Well, yeah, there are different Christian understandings on this issue.

Kind of like everything else in the book that way

 

[Moral Orel]

Some are more thought out than others, some are less thought out than others. Your interpretation for instance, which is one I've seen some Christians hold, would render Christians a peasant class, unable to do or affect anything. It suggests that Christians can only properly be poor. It's badly thought out and doesn't take into account the reality of money, only idealistic notions that by getting rid of wealth totally can we be Christian. The historic Christian interpretation, which allows for rich people to actually contribute to the life of the Church and understands that wealth has a purpose beyond merely fulfilling the self and acquiring more of it is a more thought out interpretation than what has been offered by you or Christian idealists who think that.

It's useful to distinguish between 'income' and 'wealth'. There's how much you earn and there's how much you have. A rich man can earn a lot, and give it all away as fast as he earns it. Or he can store it up for himself. That's what wealth is. How much you have. In what way does an individual having a lot of stuff serve any purpose beyond the self?

 

[FireDragon76]

Well, yeah, there are different Christian understandings on this issue.

There are no Christian sects I'm aware of that said Christian must be paupers. It's an idea that only heretics espoused.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

There are no Christian sects I'm aware of that said Christian must be paupers. It's an idea that only heretics espoused.

There are interpretations which suggest that to be rich or an elite is improper and that Christians cannot have high status. I agree heretics have espoused such ideas but I've seen it asserted that Christians should not have large amounts of wealth, both from insincere skeptics who seek to use the verse the OP mentioned against Christians and a certain kind of Christian.

It's useful to distinguish between 'income' and 'wealth'. There's how much you earn and there's how much you have. A rich man can earn a lot, and give it all away as fast as he earns it. Or he can store it up for himself. That's what wealth is. How much you have. In what way does an individual having a lot of stuff serve any purpose beyond the self?

That's the point of having stuff, it should serve you.

 

[Moral Orel]

That's the point of having stuff, it should serve you.

Yeah, that's what I think too.
The purpose of having stuff is to serve the self.
Having stuff is what being wealthy is.
Being wealthy serves the self. And that is the point of being wealthy.

But now I don't understand your statement at all.

Kiwi: "Wealth has a purpose beyond merely fulfilling the self"
Orel: "...wealth is... how much you have. In what way does an individual having a lot of stuff serve any purpose beyond the self?"
Kiwi: "That's the point of having stuff, it should serve you."

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Yeah, that's what I think too.
The purpose of having stuff is to serve the self.
Having stuff is what being wealthy is.
Being wealthy serves the self. And that is the point of being wealthy.

But now I don't understand your statement at all.

Kiwi: "Wealth has a purpose beyond merely fulfilling the self"
Orel: "...wealth is... how much you have. In what way does an individual having a lot of stuff serve any purpose beyond the self?"
Kiwi: "That's the point of having stuff, it should serve you."

Oh I see your confusion. Do you think wealth should only exist for selfish purposes? That it shouldn't be used for others?

 

[Moral Orel]

Oh I see your confusion. Do you think wealth should only exist for selfish purposes? That it shouldn't be used for others?

No. I think that if you're using your wealth for others, then you don't have wealth anymore.

 

[FireDragon76]

There are interpretations which suggest that to be rich or an elite is improper and that Christians cannot have high status. I agree heretics have espoused such ideas but I've seen it asserted that Christians should not have large amounts of wealth, both from insincere skeptics who seek to use the verse the OP mentioned against Christians and a certain kind of Christian.

What "certain kind of Christian"? I've never encountered any Christian that said you must sell everything you own and give the money to the poor. There are some Christians that believe it's a Christian testimony or witness to live simple lives (Quakers, Amish, etc.), but there's none that say your faith is only real if you are reduced to being a vagabond. Likewise, there are some Christians that favor more equity in taxation, housing, and employment, so that the poor are not oppressed by the rich (something that has deeply biblical roots, even though institutional religion has, at times, resisted this obvious interpretation).

 

[Astrid]

What "certain kind of Christian"? I've never encountered any Christian that said the you must sell everything you own and give the money to the poor. There are some Christians that believe it's a Christian testimony or witness to live simple lives (Quakers, Amish, etc.), but there's none that say your faith is only real if you are reduced to being a vagabond. Likewise, there are some Christians that favor more equity in taxation, housing, and employment, so that the poor are not oppressed by the rich (something that has deeply biblical roots, even though institutional religion has, at times, resisted this obvious interpretation).

The zero- sum thinking that for one to be rich
means another must lose and be oppressed is
really just nonsense.

 

[FireDragon76]

The zero- sum thinking that for one to be rich
means another must lose and be oppressed is
really just nonsense.

If rich own a monopoly on the means to acquire wealth, it's not nonsense.