Conquest of America, Australia, NZ, Great Nations, right work?

[Skybringr]

None of the above, it is wrong to judge our ancestors by the morals and philosophies of the modern day.

Hey, we actually agree on something

 

[Skybringr]

well God will disagree with you . He will judge the nations for a good reason.
someday everyone will have to fessup even the
victims aren't innocent either. well most weren't , there won't be any candy coating anything! !

Have you read the book of Leviticus?

From what you've stated, it is apparent that you really need to reinterpret virtues of morality as they pertain to the world and God.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

We must remember Bible teachers from age to age and some current systems are built on the old without contradiction.

 

[NannaNae]

Have you read the book of Leviticus?

From what you've stated, it is apparent that you really need to reinterpret virtues of morality as they pertain to the world and God.

ahhhhhh what are you talking about? death is death..

which colonization and are you talking about? ... because there has been many many here. many many wars and many many dead here in North America for a very long time..

Europeans were just the last ones. Even then I can name as many of my red relatives killed by red ones as white ones since the Europeans got here .
which genocide is more important than the other ones ? .......... or is just the last one wrong ? and the other ones were ok... why because no one now knows about them.... or is the one before that or the ones before that more special and important?

He will JUDGE all the nations and nothing will be hidden , that will be a good or a just thing when He does it !
in the mean time forgiveness is a very good thing.
and understanding human nature is also as good a thing.

 

[ebia]

None of the above, it is wrong to judge our ancestors by the morals and philosophies of the modern day.

Thinking we can go back and rerun history but with our moral framework instead of theirs is kind of weird.

But that doesn't excuse those of us who continue to benefit from what was done constantly wrestling with the problem of how to make proper restitution to tho who continue to be disadvantaged by it.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Admittedly, we have it easy using the benefit of hindsight and the same Gospel.
And that there is no loss, no sacrifice for admission of error for them, no returns.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I checked again and found the US population of native Americans is now over five million.
I was reminded by Leviticus 26:40-45 KJV
40If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me; 41And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity: 42Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land. 43The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes. 44And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God. 45But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

People really need to read the book;
"The Book that Made Your World: How the Bible Created the Soul of Western Civilization"
by Vishal Mangalwadi. Mangalwadi was born and raised in India, and became a Christian.
He gives an entire different history on colonialism and how we've often been mislead,
especially with regards to India. Even the story of Gandhi in the West is misleading.

As he points out in the book, the first hospitals and education institutions in India, were built
and rub by Christian missionaries, not Hindu's, Muslims or Buddhists. Christian missionaries
brought aid to the poor of India, not so the other religions there. Even the British government
did more to advance the life of Indian's than they did for themselves.

In fact, as Vishal Mangalwadi writes, where colonialism took place in the world, the people
lived better in those areas than elsewhere. Yeah, there were errors made, but the overall
effect was making a better life for the indigenous people there.

He attributes the success of the West and the USA is included in the term, to that of the Bible
which created the Judeo/Christian cultures. Yes, he points out the bad things that Christians did,
but as he shows, no culture is without its faults and the fact is, Christian based cultures made
the least errors and individual freedom was developed in the West alone.

 

[Tuur]

None of the above.

First, determine WHY colonization took place at all.

Second, determine exactly what part Christianity played in all this.

Exactly. It's worth noting that Europeans were not the first to colonize these areas. In the Americas there were successive waves of migrations beginning with the first to arrive by land bridge or sea, and I seriously doubt everything was happiness when new arrivals met preceding ones. Even in relatively more recent times, there were successive migrations of people within the Americas and warfare. This does not justify various things that went on, but I think we have to realize that colonization didn't start with the Europeans.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Yes, we don't know what other peoples would have done if they had come to a position of such power, the Dutch, the Spanish, the French, the Germans, the Chinese or Indians or even such as the Cherokee. It is the English and maybe the French that moved to give rights to conquested people. This sharing. it seemed the English speakers led the way. William Wilberforce is one of the great names. The US constitution seems noble.

 

[LankyLee]

None of the above, it is wrong to judge our ancestors by the morals and philosophies of the modern day.

Exactly do the Native Americans have blood on their hands from the land battles and tribal wars they engaged in and that led to serious bloodshed for hundreds of years before a European ever set foot on North America?
Do you ever hear them being shamed, or asked to apologize for what their ancestors did?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Exactly do the Native Americans have blood on their hands from the land battles and tribal wars they engaged in and that led to serious bloodshed for hundreds of years before a European ever set foot on North America?
Do you ever hear them being shamed, or asked to apologize for what their ancestors did?

Probably preachers to the native peoples do that. And there is merit in humbling oneself to God whether native American or white or black settlers.

 

[Tuur]

Probably preachers to the native peoples do that. And there is merit in humbling oneself to God whether native American or white or black settlers.

I once knew a Cherokee minister who speculated some on this issue.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Ezra 9:1-12 Repenting for the sins of the ancestors for all Christians, Jewish or European or Native American.

 

[Stephen3141]

The great lands of the Americas, named after Saint Emeric, Australia and NZ were conquested and colonized. Native people sometimes were able to accept the faith and civil ways, sometimes were not given a good opportunity... sometimes the tribes were genocided, or defeated and the women and children were forced into slavery.

Built on the land and from the immigration are great nations like the USA, with amazing medicine and quality of life, rights and freedoms, entertainment... But from millions of Native Americans there are now only about three hundred thousand, and the population is about three hundred and twenty million.

Australia when discovered by captain Cook, despite meeting such as Bennelong, was declared to be an uninhabited land.

The constitutions, civilizations, cities and rural works and great!
But does the end justify the means?

If you think yes, is that Christian?
If you think no, and were presented with another opportunity like the old colonists, would you take it?
Do you think God remembered the sins of the colonists, to the third and fourth generations, or were they right by God, acting in love for God?

Best regards.

I think that you're mixing up all sorts of different groups,
who came to the Americas for different reasons.

This involves multiple definitions of what "Christian" means.
All sorts of people, beginning with Spanish wealth-hunters,
came to the Americas.

For those outside the Christian faith, anyone who comes from Europe,
is often called a "Christian". This is like calling the expanding warfare by the
Roman Empire, as "Christian".

These multiple definitions of "Christian" include merely cultural Christians,
who care little about the teaching of the Bible, or Jesus.

IF you take the position of criticizing the expansion of European trading
interests into the Americas (this often involved aspects of conquering and
plundering people, that involved policies that had almost nothing to do
with orthodox Christianity), you should also critically examine the conquests
of every every big cultural power in the history of mankind. These can hardly
be accurately called "Christian" conquests, yet these economic conquests
happened pretty much uninterupted throughout the history of mankind.

To have an intelligent, and historical discussion of why economic
conquest happens through history, and how those who plunder try to
justify their plundering, you really must get into the formal definition of
Christianity, and distinguish Christianity from all sort of cultural forms of
"Christianity".

Unfortunately, it is common in discussions that are about "colonization",
to speak as if this is a uniquely a Northern European phenomenon, and
when it is, to identify it as a type of economic plundering that is compatible
with Christianity. Many more topics need to be discussed, when talking about
"colonization". This includes a good discussion of what "property" and
"ownership" are, and whether or not they are compatible with the teachings
of Christianity.