When We Live In Heaven...

[Joy Allen]

What do we do when we live there? I asked this after I got saved a LONG time AGO. My stepdad said, "We follow Jesus." He may have said "We follow Jesus around" or I understood it as that. I was kinda confused. I imagined Jesus walking around and me following along. I think this caused a stress for me because I was imagining just walking around without a break for the rest of my eternity. I guess I looked at that following in a different sense, maybe. I'd take walking around in Heaven over going to hell anyday!

 

[Semper-Fi]

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth

 

[bling]

What do we do when we live there? I asked this after I got saved a LONG time AGO. My stepdad said, "We follow Jesus." He may have said "We follow Jesus around" or I understood it as that. I was kinda confused. I imagined Jesus walking around and me following along. I think this caused a stress for me because I was imagining just walking around without a break for the rest of my eternity. I guess I looked at that following in a different sense, maybe. I'd take walking around in Heaven over going to hell anyday!

What really interests you here on earth?
What was Christ interested in doing while on earth?
What was Paul interested in doing?
Helping others?
In heaven there will be those who never had the opportunity to fulfill their earthly objective, so they did not obtain Godly type Love. I would like to help them through eternality be protected and preserved from sinning since the lack the power of Love.

 

[bbbbbbb]

What really interests you here on earth?
What was Christ interested in doing while on earth?
What was Paul interested in doing?
Helping others?
In heaven there will be those who never had the opportunity to fulfill their earthly objective, so they did not obtain Godly type Love. I would like to help them through eternality be protected and preserved from sinning since the lack the power of Love.

Do you believe that there will be sinning in heaven?

 

[Jamdoc]

What do we do when we live there? I asked this after I got saved a LONG time AGO. My stepdad said, "We follow Jesus." He may have said "We follow Jesus around" or I understood it as that. I was kinda confused. I imagined Jesus walking around and me following along. I think this caused a stress for me because I was imagining just walking around without a break for the rest of my eternity. I guess I looked at that following in a different sense, maybe. I'd take walking around in Heaven over going to hell anyday!

Heaven is kinda like a layover, it's a temporary stop on the way to the New Earth, and the things that we are told that saints do in the intermediate state biblically is... rest and be comforted.

In Luke 16 Jesus describes Lazarus going to Abraham's bosom, now we don't know if this was a parable or true story, as parables usually don't have proper names, and this wasn't heaven per say but it just says that Lazarus was being comforted where he was.
Revelation 6 the martyrs during the great tribulation, are told to rest when they cry out for God to judge the Earth and avenge them.

So the intermediate state doesn't seem to have a ton of activity itself, but seems to be focused on resting and being comforted, and worshiping God.

The New Earth however, in Isaiah 65, features earthly activities, building houses, planting vineyards, and the promise is always that on the New Earth Jesus will share rulership of that new Earth with the saints. You'll have dominion over some ministry that Jesus gives you, like territory, you have a job. Adam and Eve were charged with dressing the garden and keeping it and having dominion over the Earth, in the New Earth it's a bit of a return to that original purpose of man.

Revelation 2

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 3

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

and even during the Millennial Kingdom we see this distributed authority
Revelation 20

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

and Jesus even makes this promise during the Gospels, Luke 19

15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

We will even have authority over angels
1 Corinthians 6

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

To be perfectly honest, I get a little apprehensive at this notion as I don't think I'd be very good at ruling others, dominion in the sense of, this is your responsibility, take care of the land and animals in this region, okay sure let's go, but when it comes to ruling other intelligent beings like angels I'm worried I'd be bad at it.

 

[bling]

Do you believe that there will be sinning in heaven?

No!
For lots of good reasons.

 

[bbbbbbb]

No!
For lots of good reasons.

I didn't think so, but it struck me as peculiar that you might have some role in preventing sinning in heaven.

 

[bling]

I didn't think so, but it struck me as peculiar that you might have some role in preventing sinning in heaven.

A group of angels sinned.

 

[bbbbbbb]

A group of angels sinned.

How do we know this? Some go so far as to assert that 1/3 of the angels in heaven rebelled against God? I have not encountered anything in the Bible to substantiate these beliefs.

 

[Jamdoc]

How do we know this? Some go so far as to assert that 1/3 of the angels in heaven rebelled against God? I have not encountered anything in the Bible to substantiate these beliefs.

Comes from Revelation 12

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

There is debate as to whether this is yet future or refers to the past.
but that's where the 1/3 comes from.

There is also a previous "rebellion" in Genesis 6, or at least it is 1 view of Genesis 6 but it's a view that is substantiated by the book of Enoch which itself seems to be referred to by Peter and Jude.

Genesis 6

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Some people disagree with the view that this is Angel/Human hybrids and think it's just the children of Seth with the children of Cain but I have to admit, it would be rather odd to designate that people were having babies but it was just 2 different tribes, and why would pure humans become giants?

and again, the supernatural interpretation of this is kinda substantiated by Peter and Jude

2 Peter 2

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Jude 1

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

1 Enoch refers to the "Watchers" were the Angels who took wives, and that was a grievous sin, and they used Enoch to plead with God to ask why it was wrong. God gave the rationale that because they did not die, they did not get wives (a similar rationale Jesus used as to why Marriage didn't exist anymore in the resurrection), and they were imprisoned in the Abyss for 70 generations I think and will be released as a judgement, which is seen in the 5th and 6th trumpets in Revelation 9.

So in short, the bible does talk about Angels, having beheld God in all His glory, still choosing to sin, multiple times.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Comes from Revelation 12

There is debate as to whether this is yet future or refers to the past.
but that's where the 1/3 comes from.

There is also a previous "rebellion" in Genesis 6, or at least it is 1 view of Genesis 6 but it's a view that is substantiated by the book of Enoch which itself seems to be referred to by Peter and Jude.

Genesis 6


Some people disagree with the view that this is Angel/Human hybrids and think it's just the children of Seth with the children of Cain but I have to admit, it would be rather odd to designate that people were having babies but it was just 2 different tribes, and why would pure humans become giants?

and again, the supernatural interpretation of this is kinda substantiated by Peter and Jude

2 Peter 2


Jude 1


1 Enoch refers to the "Watchers" were the Angels who took wives, and that was a grievous sin, and they used Enoch to plead with God to ask why it was wrong. God gave the rationale that because they did not die, they did not get wives (a similar rationale Jesus used as to why Marriage didn't exist anymore in the resurrection), and they were imprisoned in the Abyss for 70 generations I think and will be released as a judgement, which is seen in the 5th and 6th trumpets in Revelation 9.

So in short, the bible does talk about Angels, having beheld God in all His glory, still choosing to sin, multiple times.

In Revelation 12 angels are not mentioned at all, unless they are stars, which is completely unsupported by the Bible. One must read with magic glasses between the lines to come to that interpretation.

In Genesis 6 there is no mention at all of angels. Once again, one must read with magic glasses between the lines to come to that interpretation.

II Peter 2 actually does talk about angelic sin and its consequences. This is problematic because if demons are fallen angels, as many believe, and these sinning angels have been cast into hell, then they are not demonic angels under the authority of Satan.

Jude 1 aligns with II Peter 2. Both seem to have as their source I Enoch, as you have noted. However, the problem for orthodox Christians is that I Enoch has been rejected as being canonical scripture. Even though Jude, in particular, seems to have derived several of his allegations from I Enoch, it is up for debate as to the actual veracity of these allegations, unless one chooses to believe that, despite other Old Testament support, I Enoch is sufficient. I am not willing to take that step.

 

[Semper-Fi]

A group of angels sinned.

How do we know this?

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them
down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness,
to be reserved unto judgment; 2 peter2:4

Some go so far as to assert that 1/3 of the angels in heaven
rebelled against God? I have not encountered anything in
the Bible to substantiate these beliefs.

The idea of one third of the angels falling from heaven is
found in Revelation 12:4: "His tail swept down a third of
the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth."

This passage is often interpreted to mean Satan and a third
of angels were removed from heaven to earth.
Did one third of the angels fall with Lucifer? | GotQuestions.org

The dragon [Satan] was hurled down to the earth,
“His angels were cast out with him” (verse 9).

 

[bbbbbbb]

A group of angels sinned.



"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them
down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness,
to be reserved unto judgment; 2 peter2:4



The idea of one third of the angels falling from heaven is
found in Revelation 12:4: "His tail swept down a third of
the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth."

This passage is often interpreted to mean Satan and a third
of angels were removed from heaven to earth.
Did one third of the angels fall with Lucifer? | GotQuestions.org

The dragon [Satan] was hurled down to the earth,
“His angels were cast out with him” (verse 9).

Thank you. Please read my post above.

Thank you for pointing out verse 9. One of the problematic issues with this chapter (as well as of most of the book) is the prophetic nature of the writings. On one hand, it can be viewed as a future rebellion in heaven by Satan and some angels, which would fit in well with the prophetic vision of this chapter and the book. On the other hand, many view this as being descriptive of a past rebellion, probably before the creation of the heavens and the earth. The simple fact is that either one of the interpretations could be accurate. There is no textual evidence supporting or disproving either interpretation.

 

[Jamdoc]

In Revelation 12 angels are not mentioned at all, unless they are stars, which is completely unsupported by the Bible. One must read with magic glasses between the lines to come to that interpretation.

or just read the next several verses which talk about the war in heaven between Michael and his angels against Satan and his angels. The only possible "dubious" thing there is the figure of 1/3 but it's not THAT out there to believe that 1/3 of the angels rebelled with Satan, it's a war, war needs quite a few combatants for it to be seen as a war and not just a personal dispute.

In Genesis 6 there is no mention at all of angels. Once again, one must read with magic glasses between the lines to come to that interpretation.

Or just compare scripture to scripture.

II Peter 2 actually does talk about angelic sin and its consequences. This is problematic because if demons are fallen angels, as many believe, and these sinning angels have been cast into hell, then they are not demonic angels under the authority of Satan.

That is why it's important to note that there have been MULTIPLE angelic rebellions. In Revelation 12 Satan and his angels are cast down to Earth.
But in Jude 1 and 2 Peter 2, those angels who sinned are bound in hell.
You see it as problematic because you seem to think it's the same group of angels.
What I'm trying to point out is that there have been at least 2 occasions where Angels rebelled. 1 group is in hell, the other group is on Earth and are the demons that are encountered on Earth such as the ones that Jesus cast out of people, and it is perhaps debatable whether there will be a 3rd rebellion that sets off the 70th week.

Jude 1 aligns with II Peter 2. Both seem to have as their source I Enoch, as you have noted. However, the problem for orthodox Christians is that I Enoch has been rejected as being canonical scripture. Even though Jude, in particular, seems to have derived several of his allegations from I Enoch, it is up for debate as to the actual veracity of these allegations, unless one chooses to believe that, despite other Old Testament support, I Enoch is sufficient. I am not willing to take that step.

no, 1 Enoch is definitely not sufficient. If it were not for canon scripture agreeing with it on a few things it could totally be ignored, but canon scripture does align with it in a few places and it does lead into an interpretation of Genesis 6 that makes sense, using the 2 canon scripture passages along with it, you can see Genesis 6 in a more supernatural light that makes it make more sense than just .. Seth's male descendants having children with Cain's female descendants (why would those produce Giants?)

 

[Jamdoc]

anyway, I don't know how we got off on this tangent, the sole thing I can say that is relevant is that Angels who beheld God in all His glory in heaven still chose to rebel and sin.
and I'd say that makes the stance that many pastors have that simply seeing Jesus in all His glory is what's going to prevent sin in the New Heavens and New Earth dubious.

 

[ViaCrucis]

What do we do when we live there? I asked this after I got saved a LONG time AGO. My stepdad said, "We follow Jesus." He may have said "We follow Jesus around" or I understood it as that. I was kinda confused. I imagined Jesus walking around and me following along. I think this caused a stress for me because I was imagining just walking around without a break for the rest of my eternity. I guess I looked at that following in a different sense, maybe. I'd take walking around in Heaven over going to hell anyday!

Of first importance here is to understand that when we talk about "going to heaven" we are referring to an interim, an intermediate state of existence between bodily death and bodily resurrection. What Christianity has always confessed, and it's what Scripture boldly teaches, is that the ultimate state of things--the Age to Come--is the total and full renewal of all creation. That is, in a sense, heaven coming down to earth.

When Christ returns in glory as judge of the living and the dead, the dead are raised up bodily; we who have our hope in Him are raised up to new and everlasting life. What God has done for Jesus, raising Him up, He will do for all who have their hope in Him (Romans 8:11), and in a sense it is what God is going to do for all creation (Romans 8:18-25).

As for what we will do in the Age to Come. Scripture only provides us with brief glimpses, as even St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13:12 that we but see through a glass dimly, but then face to face. But we do have glimpses, the Prophet Isaiah speaks of the day when the wolf shall recline with the lamb, the leopard with the infant goat, the ox and the lion shall eat straw together, the little child shall play near the viper's den without fear. On that Day God makes all things new. It is a world fully renewed, a world filled with God, the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of God even as waters cover the seas." (Habakkuk 2:14), and in the final apocalyptic vision in the Revelation we read that when God makes all things new God shall dwell with us, and we with Him, His light shall fill all things; and St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 says that after Christ has come and delivered all things to the Father, God shall be all in all.

I anticipate that, in the life of the Age to Come, I will serve you, we will all be servants who serve and love. There will be work to be done, and life to be lived. It will not be grueling or a chore, but a joy. That the love and good we are called to have and do now, but which is our struggle of taking up a cross, shall be so free and so full of life and joy that we cannot even comprehend it. But it will be life, real life, life more full and abundant than anything we have dared to even imagine. There will be relationships to be enjoyed, to treasure one another, and in all this live in the fullness of our God-given humanity which, at present, is so broken and battered by sin and death.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[bling]

How do we know this? Some go so far as to assert that 1/3 of the angels in heaven rebelled against God? I have not encountered anything in the Bible to substantiate these beliefs.

2 Peter 2:4 ESV

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

Revelation 12:9 ESV

And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Revelation 12:3-4 ESV

And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it.


Jude 1:6 ESV

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—

 

[bbbbbbb]

2 Peter 2:4 ESV

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

Revelation 12:9 ESV

And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Revelation 12:3-4 ESV

And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it.


Jude 1:6 ESV

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—

Thank you. I trust that you have read my previous posts in response to others. I will not reiterate my statements here.

There are some theological difficulties, as follow:

1. Is the angelic rebellion in Revelation 12 yet to come or in the past? If it was in the past when did it happen? Or, as one poster has asserted, is this merely descriptive of multiple angelic rebellions?

2. If, as II Peter and Jude describe, the rebellious angels were cast into hell, does that also include Satan and his demons? If not, where did they come from?

3. Does the angelic rebellion in heaven indicate the presence of sin and free will in heaven by God's created beings?

 

[Semper-Fi]

1.the angelic rebellion, was it past, present or future?

I believe Satan and his demons [have been cast out of heaven],
and is barred from returning in these end times. The bible says
"Woe to the earth", today we see Satan working overtime everywhere.

There was also the first rebellion long ago, long before Adam and Eve
where made. Luke 10:18 Jesus said he saw Satan as lightning fall from
heaven, back to earth where came from. (2 Cor 4:4) God had placed the
archangel Lucifer, a cherub, on a throne on the earth.

The Angeles shouted for joy when the heavens and earth was made.
Satan was in Eden the garden of God. He walked up and down in the
midst of the stones of fire, meaning he administered Gods government.
He was in charge over some Angeles here on earth. Not sure how long
it took to talk Angeles to try overthrowing Gods throne in heaven with him.

By this angelic sin, Lucifer became Satan the devil and his angels be-
came demons. This angelic battle caused damage to the physical creation.
Universal sin brings universal destruction of the physical earth/ universe.

Satan was an anointed cherub. In Exodus 25 is an earthly description
of the very throne of God in heaven. On either side of God’s throne
was a super archangel, a cherub. administration of the government of
God over all of God’s creation. They were aides, ministers, servants,
assisting God in his creations.

Genesis 1:1: “In the beginning [of the physical universe] God created the
heavens and the earth.” These spirit beings had been given dominion over
the physical earth as a possession and an abode, "to tend it."

Earth was made millions or trillions of years ago like science thinks.
The bible does not say how long ago, or dinos roamed the earth then.

The dinos where wiped out long ago, a big asteroid would make [earth
covered in water]."The Spirit of God moved upon the face of [the waters].
The Earth was flooded with water, and all land animals killed. “And dark-
ness was upon the face of the deep [the ocean or fluid surface of earth.

“And the earth [was] without form, and void.” The words “without form,
and void” are translated from the Hebrew tohu and bohu. A better trans-
lation is “waste and empty” or chaotic, in confusion or state of decay.
God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33).

The word [was] is elsewhere in Genesis 19:26 translated became, as when
Lots wife [became] a piller. The earth became “waste and empty”

Same Hebrew word—tohu—meaning waste and empty in Isaiah 45:18, where
it is translated “in vain.” “For thus said the Lord that created the heavens;
God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it,
he created it not in vain [tohu], he formed it to be inhabited.”

Verse 1 shows the creation of a perfect, if unfinished earth, glorious
and beautiful. Verse 2 reveals the result of the sin of the angels.
We do not know how long the earth stayed in a waste condition.

Lucifer was created a perfect bringer of light. Now he became author of
darkness, error, confusion and evil. Satan is the author of darkness.
God is the author of light and truth, and everything was perfectly made.
"God divided the light from the darkness”
-

David was inspired to write that God renewed the face of the earth:
“Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest
the face of the earth” (Psalm 104:30). This is when "the Spirit of God
moved upon the face of the waters" Genesis 1:2
.
Now instead of huge reptiles roaming the earth with larger plants and
vegetation, science sees mammals more of the dominate species, with
a vast difference in most everything else.

Now Different floral and fauna, the first chapter of the Bible describe the
renewing of the face of the earth, yielding beautiful lawns, trees, shrubs,
flowers, vegetation—then the creation of fish and fowl, animal life, and
finally, mankind to go with the new environment made just for [us].

Adam and Eve in the Garden has not been 6000 years yet. Planets in the
universe are still waste and empty—decayed (tohu and bohu) from sin.

This is why creation is very old, but mankind is not, because Lucifers rebellion.

 

[Jipsah]

1 Enoch refers to the "Watchers"

Enoch is rubbish.