The Gospel Plus Nothing

[Ligurian]

John 15 is solidly new covenant. And everything belongs to everyone now. The veil is broken for all to have access to the Holy of Holies. And with that access, by being God's people, we now have the love that comes from fellowship with Him, the mercy and compassion that He desires of us.

Revelation 11:1-2 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod, and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God and the altar, and them that worship therein.[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out and measure it not, for it is given unto the gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is the unorthodox section of C.F.

In pulpits you will find preachers offering salvation if you will follow certain rules.

Our Lord speaks out of Himself to bring to pass His intention.

Unorthodox doctrines are called heresies.

 

[FineLinen]

Unorthodox doctrines are called heresies.

BNR: anything that is outside the wee box you attempt to place our God of splendour cannot stand. Our limited must abide in His unlimited.

 

[Clare73]

Matthew 23:8-10 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master: Christ; and all ye are brethren.[9] And call no man your father upon the Earth: for one is your Father, which is in Heaven.[10] Neither be ye called teachers, for one is your Teacher: Christ.
καθηγητής = guide, teacher, master.
ποιμήν = shepherd, pastor.
John 10:1-16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught by God. Every man therefore that hath heard and hath learned from the Father, cometh unto Me. (Isaiah 54:13-15)

Agreed. . .

John 15:26-27 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of Me:[27] And ye also shall bear witness because ye have been with Me from the beginning. (Passover Sermon)
Isaiah 43:1-13 Be ye My witnesses, and I too am a witness, saith the Lord God, and My servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe and understand that I am He: before Me there was no other God, and after Me there shall be none.[11] I am God, and beside Me there is no Saviour.[12] I have declared and have saved, I have reproached and there was no strange god among you: ye are My witnesses and I am the Lord God,[13] even from the beginning; and there is none that can deliver out of My hands: I will work, and who shall turn it back? (John 10:29)

Agreed. . .

 

[Der Alte]

...

* * *In pulpits you will find preachers offering salvation if you will follow certain rules. * * *

Nonsense!

 

[Mark Quayle]

The authority of the name of Jesus causes every knee to bow in reverence! Everything and everyone will one day submit to this name—in the heavenly realm, in the earthly realm, and in the demonic realm. And every tongue will proclaim in every language: “Jesus Christ is Lord Yahweh,” bringing glory and honor to God, his Father! ~TPT

Then, at least, you admit that bowing the knee is acknowledgement and not repentance, not resulting in salvation? —As in, "Even the demons believe that, and shudder!"?

 

[Mark Quayle]

God offers salvation to all, and God gives salvation to believers.

Yes, all "in Adam" die, and all "in Christ" are made alive.

Agreed. Even in English we sometimes talk with the order of the words as it is written —"in Christ all will be made alive"— to mean the order of thought as you put it here —"all "in Christ" are made alive". But they will accuse you of changing the Scriptures.

 

[Mark Quayle]

God our heavenly Lord does not make offers. He speaks out of Himself to bring to pass His intention.

God is the Saviour of all mankind, not some of mankind, the radical all of pas. Believers are the "especially" of His salvation.

Especially is not only!

Since this is the unorthodox section, I expect you don't mind if @Clare73 uses someone else's terminology to make a point. She is not teaching God actually offering something that might or might not happen. She would agree that God will indeed bring about everything he intends.

 

[Clare73]

Since this is the unorthodox section, I expect you don't mind if @Clare73 uses someone else's terminology to make a point. She is not teaching God actually offering something that might or might not happen. She would agree that God will indeed bring about everything he intends.

Would "presents" be a better word than "offers"?

 

[Der Alte]

Agreed. Even in English we sometimes talk with the order of the words as it is written —"in Christ all will be made alive"— to mean the order of thought as you put it here —"all "in Christ" are made alive". But they will accuse you of changing the Scriptures.

This verse is often twisted by certain groups to read "all are made alive in Christ."

1 Corinthians 15:21-23
(21) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
(22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(23) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.​

All mankind are "in Adam" because all mankind are literal, physical descendants of Adam.
All mankind are not inherently "in Christ," that requires a conscious decision of each individual while they are alive.
Vs. 23 clearly shows this. Christ the first fruits then ""they that are Christ's at His coming." NOT as some people argue "all mankind" but those who belong to Christ when He comes.

 

[Mark Quayle]

This verse is often twisted by certain groups to read "all are made alive in Christ."

1 Corinthians 15:21-23
(21) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
(22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(23) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.​

All mankind are "in Adam" because all mankind are literal, physical descendants of Adam.
All mankind are not inherently "in Christ," that requires a conscious decision of each individual while they are alive.
Vs. 23 clearly shows this. Christ is the first fruits then ""they that are Christ's at His coming." NOT as some people argue "all mankind" but those who belong to Christ when He comes.

Agreed. In fact, it could be taken to show a focus that it is in Christ that any can be made alive. Nobody can be made alive except in Christ.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Would "presents" be a better word than "offers"?

It is an offer, in that if anyone accepts the offer they will be saved. But they will not, except those to whom he shows that particular mercy and grace.

So, yes, from our point of view, the whole picture can be better understood as "presents". It kinda bugs me how people take something someone says to imply something they never teach. There are many on this site who would say "offer" to be implicative of a whole scenario that necessarily invokes the authority of mere chance, as if the fact that "we don't know who will" means that "God has not chosen".

 

[FineLinen]

Since this is the unorthodox section, I expect you don't mind if @Clare73 uses someone else's terminology to make a point. She is not teaching God actually offering something that might or might not happen. She would agree that God will indeed bring about everything he intends.

Our Father will indeed bring everything about the absolute all of His intention within Himself. His perfect plan has been from the very beginning of the aeons restoration of all that has fallen into disunion with Him.

 

[FineLinen]

Agreed. In fact, it could be taken to show a focus that it is in Christ that any can be made alive. Nobody can be made alive except in Christ.

The Lord Jesus Christ is Life. Nothing exists outside of Him. In His House are vast dwelling places of union & communion. Both us, as the malista, & them are encompassed in His love & grace.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Our Father will indeed bring everything about the absolute all of His intention within Himself. His perfect plan has been from the very beginning of the aeons restoration of all that has fallen into disunion with Him.

If what you say is true, there may well be something to the notion that we are not really much of anything, certainly not a complete creation, apart from him. If those relegated to the LOFire are not what we would like to think will be "restored" to him —in fact, if the Lake of Fire itself is not part of what we might call "restored"— then it might be worth considering the notion that sin itself is not what in mathematics we would give absolute value, and those we have the habit of considering as a complete soul in and of itself, is not.

In my poor opinion, his justice includes what he will do to those creatures owned by sin. "Restoration of all things" has to do with removing sin's, and the devil's, authority. Look at the implications of so many places in Scripture, for example: When Uzzah thought he could stop the ark from tipping over, assuming he was cleaner than the dirt (or more than mere dust?). Then there's, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out." seems to imply the stones are almost as "alive", (worth almost as much ?) as we think ourselves to be, apart from him. Those in the LOF have been resurrected too, but not unto life. —I mean, since this is the unorthodox forum. !)

 

[FineLinen]

The Lord Jesus Christ is Life. Nothing exists outside of Him. In His House are vast dwelling places of union & communion. Both us, as the malista, & them are encompassed in His love & grace.

"For against its will the universe itself has had to endure the empty futility resulting from the consequences of human sin.But now, with eager expectation, all creation longs for freedom from its slavery to decay and to experience with us the wonderful freedom coming to God’s children. To this day we are aware of the universal agony and groaning of creation, as if it were in the contractions of labor for childbirth. And it’s not just creation. We who have already experienced the first-fruits of the Spirit also inwardly groan as we passionately long to experience our full status as God’s sons and daughters—including our physical bodies being transformed. For this is the hope of our salvation." ~TPT

 

[Mark Quayle]

The Lord Jesus Christ is Life. Nothing exists outside of Him. In His House are vast dwelling places of union & communion. Both us, as the malista, & them are encompassed in His love & grace.

If nothing exists outside of him, then he can withdraw himself from what we consider "is", and it is nothing.

 

[FineLinen]

If what you say is true, there may well be something to the notion that we are not really much of anything, certainly not a complete creation, apart from him. If those relegated to the LOFire are not what we would like to think will be "restored" to him —in fact, if the Lake of Fire itself is not part of what we might call "restored"— then it might be worth considering the notion that sin itself is not what in mathematics we would give absolute value, and those we have the habit of considering as a complete soul in and of itself, is not.

In my poor opinion, his justice includes what he will do to those creatures owned by sin. "Restoration of all things" has to do with removing sin's, and the devil's, authority. Look at the implications of so many places in Scripture, for example: When Uzzah thought he could stop the ark from tipping over, assuming he was cleaner than the dirt (or more than mere dust?). Then there's, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out." seems to imply the stones are almost as "alive", (worth almost as much ?) as we think ourselves to be, apart from him. Those in the LOF have been resurrected too, but not unto life. —I mean, since this is the unorthodox forum. !)

The root of humans is humous. We are dirt raised to life within Him. Our God is FIRE, identical with the Lake of theion and theioo, changing everything in giant gulps of splendor.

 

[Mark Quayle]

"For against its will the universe itself has had to endure the empty futility resulting from the consequences of human sin.But now, with eager expectation, all creation longs for freedom from its slavery to decay and to experience with us the wonderful freedom coming to God’s children. To this day we are aware of the universal agony and groaning of creation, as if it were in the contractions of labor for childbirth. And it’s not just creation. We who have already experienced the first-fruits of the Spirit also inwardly groan as we passionately long to experience our full status as God’s sons and daughters—including our physical bodies being transformed. For this is the hope of our salvation." ~TPT

So you assume that "all creation" when it sees God as he is, and will be restored, necessarily invokes a certain absolute value to everything that we see as "existing".

When God spoke his creation into existence, what did he see? Can you show that he did not speak his finished product into existence, and that our view of it is only what it took to achieve that?

 

[FineLinen]

If nothing exists outside of him, then he can withdraw himself from what we consider "is", and it is nothing.

Our Yah can and does all He pleases. He "cherishes" all mankind being restored to what they have lost in the great chasm. The question for each of us is will He be successful?