You Are Bought With A Price

[Minister Monardo]

Redemption is a transaction involving a payment
which allows or prevents the transfer of ownership,
or inheritance.
It is identified in Paul's writing by his use of the
expression; "you were bought with a price".
1 Corinthians 6:
19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
20 For you were bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.

1 Corinthians 7:
20 Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called.
21 Were you called while a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use it.
22 For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord’s freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ’s slave.
23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.
24 Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called.

Also, the possessive expression "you are Christ's".
Galatians
3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
5:24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

1 Corinthians
3:23 And you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
15:23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

Final Redemption is with the second coming.
Luke 21:
27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.

Sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.
Ephesians 1:
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

2 Corinthians 1:
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

The Price of Redemption was established by
the year of release.
Leviticus 25:
47 Now if a sojourner or stranger close to you becomes rich, and one of your brethren who dwells by him becomes poor, and sells himself to the stranger or sojourner close to you, or to a member of the stranger’s family,
48 after he is sold he may be redeemed again. One of his brothers may redeem him;
49 or his uncle or his uncle’s son may redeem him; or anyone who is near of kin to him in his family may redeem him; or if he is able he may redeem himself.
50 Thus he shall reckon with him who bought him: The price of his release shall be according to the number of years, from the year that he was sold to him until the Year of Jubilee; it shall be according to the time of a hired servant for him.
51 If there are still many years remaining, according to them he shall repay the price of his redemption from the money with which he was bought.
52 And if there remain but a few years until the Year of Jubilee, then he shall reckon with him, and according to his years he shall repay him the price of his redemption.
53 He shall be with him as a yearly hired servant, and he shall not rule with rigor over him in your sight.
54 And if he is not redeemed in these years, then he shall be released in the Year of Jubilee—he and his children with him.
55 For the children of Israel are servants to Me; they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

 

[concretecamper]

Redemption is a transaction involving a payment
which allows or prevents the transfer of ownership,
or inheritance.

A Covenant IS NOT a transaction.

 

[Minister Monardo]

A Covenant IS NOT a transaction.

Redemption isn't a covenant, it is a title deed
transaction.

 

[concretecamper]

Redemption isn't a covenant, it is a title deed
transaction.

such a cold description of a loving Father.

 

[Minister Monardo]

such a cold description of a loving Father.

Where am I describing the Father?
The discussion is on the term redemption, and
Paul's use of the expression "you are bought with a price". Just sounds like a legal transaction, except the payment was made at the cross, and the Love of the
Father was revealed there. I know where and how the cost of redemption was paid. What is your hangup?

 

[concretecamper]

What is your hangup?

Post what you want, but reducing His sacrifice to a transaction demands correction.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Post what you want, but reducing His sacrifice to a transaction demands correction.

You are twisting a simple explanation for the term
'price of redemption' in the Old Testament.
It is an act of love for a near of kin.
Ruth became the wife of Boaz by an
act of redemption. A Hebrew slave could be
bought out of indenture by a family member.
You are the only one making cold comments.
I would ask you to chill out, but that would be
counter intuitive. Paul uses the "cold business terminology" of saying that you are "bought with a price" as a way of expressing the concept of "price of
redemption". No reason to see it as cold in any way, whether by intention or means.

 

[concretecamper]

You are twisting a simple explanation for the term
'price of redemption' in the Old Testament.
It is an act of love for a near of kin.
Ruth became the wife of Boaz by an
act of redemption. A Hebrew slave could be
bought out of indenture by a family member.
You are the only one making cold comments.
I would ask you to chill out, but that would be
counter intuitive. Paul uses the "cold business terminology" of saying that you are "bought with a price" as a way of expressing the concept of "price of
redemption". No reason to see it as cold in any way, whether by intention or means.

don't reduce His sacrifice to a transaction, and I'll chill out. Sorry, I'm sticking up for Him.

 

[Minister Monardo]

don't reduce His sacrifice to a transaction, and I'll chill out. Sorry, I'm sticking up for Him.

Hebrews 9:
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

This is the description of the transaction, and it
is about what He did for you. Wonderful that you
actually think that you are sticking up for Him.
Is that the sound of you patting yourself on the
back, or the sound of one hand clapping?

 

[concretecamper]

Hebrews 9:
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

that's right, COVENANT!

This is the description of the transaction, and it
is about what He did for you

this is a description of a Covanent. Thank you.

Wonderful that you
actually think that you are sticking up for Him.
Is that the sound of you patting yourself on the
back, or the sound of one hand clapping

if trying to be witty pacifies you, go for it.

 

[timewerx]

Many teachings in the Old Testament don't apply to Gentile Christians. Unless you're a Judaist Jew.

And take enormous care when studying Paul's teachings. Paul's teachings are often strictly addressed to a specific audiences only. Even Paul said it so: 1 Corinthians 9:20-22

The Corinth are especially very sinful people, corrupt to the core, and incredibly greedy with money so Paul had to teach them in a way they would understand.

This is a very HUGE problem in churches, in Christianity today they think all of Paul's teachings apply to everyone to all culture, to all time, even our modern culture. I can assure you many of them don't apply to us. This is why the modern Church is in great disarray and end up working in opposition to Christ's teachings.

 

[bling]

Redemption is a transaction involving a payment
which allows or prevents the transfer of ownership,
or inheritance.
It is identified in Paul's writing by his use of the
expression; "you were bought with a price".
1 Corinthians 6:
19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
20 For you were bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.

1 Corinthians 7:
20 Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called.
21 Were you called while a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use it.
22 For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord’s freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ’s slave.
23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.
24 Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called.

Also, the possessive expression "you are Christ's".
Galatians
3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
5:24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

1 Corinthians
3:23 And you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
15:23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

Final Redemption is with the second coming.
Luke 21:
27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.

Sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.
Ephesians 1:
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

2 Corinthians 1:
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

The Price of Redemption was established by
the year of release.
Leviticus 25:
47 Now if a sojourner or stranger close to you becomes rich, and one of your brethren who dwells by him becomes poor, and sells himself to the stranger or sojourner close to you, or to a member of the stranger’s family,
48 after he is sold he may be redeemed again. One of his brothers may redeem him;
49 or his uncle or his uncle’s son may redeem him; or anyone who is near of kin to him in his family may redeem him; or if he is able he may redeem himself.
50 Thus he shall reckon with him who bought him: The price of his release shall be according to the number of years, from the year that he was sold to him until the Year of Jubilee; it shall be according to the time of a hired servant for him.
51 If there are still many years remaining, according to them he shall repay the price of his redemption from the money with which he was bought.
52 And if there remain but a few years until the Year of Jubilee, then he shall reckon with him, and according to his years he shall repay him the price of his redemption.
53 He shall be with him as a yearly hired servant, and he shall not rule with rigor over him in your sight.
54 And if he is not redeemed in these years, then he shall be released in the Year of Jubilee—he and his children with him.
55 For the children of Israel are servants to Me; they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

I like your bringing up "bought with a price", our being set free, redemption. These are all part of a kidnapping and paid ransom scenario which Christ, John, Paul, Peter and the Hebrew writer all refer to.
The question I have: If it a true kidnapping/ransom scenario the "payment" has to go to some undeserving criminal, so who would that be and why pay him?

There is this unbelievable huge “ransom payment” being made: Jesus, Peter, Paul, John and the author of Hebrews all describe it as an actual ransom scenario and not just “like a ransom scenario”. And we can all agree on: the payment being Christ’s torture, humiliation and murder, the Payer being God/Christ, the child being set free (sinners going to God), but have a problem with: “Who is the kidnapper”? If there is no kidnapper than the ransom scenario does not fit, so who is the kidnapper?

Some people try to make God the receiver of the payment, which calls God the kidnapper of His own children which is crazy.

Some people say satan is the kidnapper, but that would mean God is paying satan when God has the power to safely take anything from satan and it would be wrong for God to pay satan.

Some say it is an intangible like death, evil, sin, or nothing, but you would not pay a huge payment to an intangible or nothing?

There is one very likely kidnapper and that is the person holding a child back from entering the Kingdom to be with God. When we go to the nonbeliever, we are not trying to convince them of an idea, a book, a doctrine or theology, but to accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified (which is described as the ransom payment). If the nonbeliever accepts the ransom payment (Jesus Christ) there is a child released to go to the Father, but if the nonbeliever refuses to accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified a child is kept out of the Kingdom. Does this all sounds very much like a kidnapping scenario?

Yes, Christ is the ransom payment for all, but the kidnapper can accept or reject the payment. If the kidnapper rejects this unbelievable huge payment, the payers of the ransom are going to be upset with that kidnapper.

There is a lot more to say about this, but this is an introduction.

 

[Minister Monardo]

There is this unbelievable huge “ransom payment” being made: Jesus, Peter, Paul, John and the author of Hebrews all describe it as an actual ransom scenario and not just “like a ransom scenario”. And we can all agree on: the payment being Christ’s torture, humiliation and murder, the Payer being God/Christ, the child being set free (sinners going to God), but have a problem with: “Who is the kidnapper”? If there is no kidnapper than the ransom scenario does not fit, so who is the kidnapper?

Redemption in the Torah is not a "kidnapping for
ransom" scenario, it is a system by which someone
sold into indentured servitute can be bought back,
redeemed based on the number of years to the year
of release.
Leviticus 25:
48 After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him:

49 Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself.

50 And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubile: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him.

A redemption price is also a means of regaining an
inheritance of land or property sold into the rightful
family. This is the means by which Boaz took Ruth
to be his wife. He redeemed the property of Naomi
into her rightful tribe, Boaz being a near kin.
Ruth 4:
1 Then went Boaz up to the gate, and sat him down there: and, behold, the kinsman of whom Boaz spake came by; unto whom he said, Ho, such a one! turn aside, sit down here. And he turned aside, and sat down.

2 And he took ten men of the elders of the city, and said, Sit ye down here. And they sat down.

3 And he said unto the kinsman, Naomi, that is come again out of the country of Moab, selleth a parcel of land, which was our brother Elimelech's:

4 And I thought to advertise thee, saying, Buy it before the inhabitants, and before the elders of my people. If thou wilt redeem it, redeem it: but if thou wilt not redeem it, then tell me, that I may know: for there is none to redeem it beside thee; and I am after thee. And he said, I will redeem it.

5 Then said Boaz, What day thou buyest the field of the hand of Naomi, thou must buy it also of Ruth the Moabitess, the wife of the dead, to raise up the name of the dead upon his inheritance.

6 And the kinsman said, I cannot redeem it for myself, lest I mar mine own inheritance: redeem thou my right to thyself; for I cannot redeem it.

 

[bling]

Redemption in the Torah is not a "kidnapping for
ransom" scenario, it is a system by which someone
sold into indentured servitute can be bought back,
redeemed based on the number of years to the year
of release.
Leviticus 25:
48 After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him:

49 Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself.

50 And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubile: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him.

A redemption price is also a means of regaining an
inheritance of land or property sold into the rightful
family. This is the means by which Boaz took Ruth
to be his wife. He redeemed the property of Naomi
into her rightful tribe, Boaz being a near kin.
Ruth 4:
1 Then went Boaz up to the gate, and sat him down there: and, behold, the kinsman of whom Boaz spake came by; unto whom he said, Ho, such a one! turn aside, sit down here. And he turned aside, and sat down.

2 And he took ten men of the elders of the city, and said, Sit ye down here. And they sat down.

3 And he said unto the kinsman, Naomi, that is come again out of the country of Moab, selleth a parcel of land, which was our brother Elimelech's:

4 And I thought to advertise thee, saying, Buy it before the inhabitants, and before the elders of my people. If thou wilt redeem it, redeem it: but if thou wilt not redeem it, then tell me, that I may know: for there is none to redeem it beside thee; and I am after thee. And he said, I will redeem it.

5 Then said Boaz, What day thou buyest the field of the hand of Naomi, thou must buy it also of Ruth the Moabitess, the wife of the dead, to raise up the name of the dead upon his inheritance.

6 And the kinsman said, I cannot redeem it for myself, lest I mar mine own inheritance: redeem thou my right to thyself; for I cannot redeem it.

This is no small payment, but huge beyond believe, which better fits a ransom payment than a buying of a slave. We really need to know how the Jews in the first century Jerusalem area would have understood it. Do you see the payment as being huge almost beyond belief?
Who do you see the payment going to?

 

[Minister Monardo]

This is no small payment, but huge beyond believe, which better fits a ransom payment than a buying of a slave. We really need to know how the Jews in the first century Jerusalem area would have understood it. Do you see the payment as being huge almost beyond belief?
Who do you see the payment going to?

I don't see it. You are trying to define the context
of my thread, and then challenge me to answer your
question as to how I fall into your schemata.
To say Jesus was paying an unimaginable ransom is because it is just that, unimaginable.
He did all things for His Father's Glory, and as a faithful Son, a partaker of that Glory.
The reason he pays the price of redemption is because we aren't simply the Redeemed, we are children of God by the Spirit of Adoption, which along with Redemption are acts of familial Love,
Fatherly Love. God Loving us as our Father.

As to being "bought with a price", redemption pertains to our body, and the life we live while still in the earth suit.
Romans 8:23 Not only that, but we also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

On what legal basis could Paul make the following demand upon the Saints?
Because they have been "bought with a price".
They are the redeemed of the Lord, and they are His.
Romans 6:
17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.

18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[bling]

I don't see it. You are trying to define the context
of my thread, and then challenge me to answer your
question as to how I fall into your schemata.
To say Jesus was paying an unimaginable ransom is because it is just that, unimaginable.
He did all things for His Father's Glory, and as a faithful Son, a partaker of that Glory.
The reason he pays the price of redemption is because we aren't simply the Redeemed, we are children of God by the Spirit of Adoption, which along with Redemption are acts of familial Love,
Fatherly Love. God Loving us as our Father.

As to being "bought with a price", redemption pertains to our body, and the life we live while still in the earth suit.
Romans 8:23 Not only that, but we also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

On what legal basis could Paul make the following demand upon the Saints?
Because they have been "bought with a price".
They are the redeemed of the Lord, and they are His.
Romans 6:
17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.

18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We agree that a huge payment (ransom payment) is being made, so to whom is the payment made and why to him?

Do you agree that: if the unbelieving sinner accepts Jesus Christ and Him Crucified a Child is set free to enter the Kingdom and be with his/her Father, but if the unbelieving sinner refuses to accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified a child is kept out of the Kingdom?

 

[Minister Monardo]

We agree that a huge payment (ransom payment) is being made, so to whom is the payment made and why to him?

Hebrews 2:
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

To someone who realizes the gravity of their situation, and what Christ endured to redeem them from sin and death, the metaphor of being ransomed from captivity holds. From the perspective of the Father, the Son has
paid the price of redemption, and this is based on using the Torah to understand the righteous requirements of the Law. As far as I am concerned, you are taking the metaphor too far to ask 'who is receiving the ransom payment'? Sin and death? the devil?
I don't think so, but you are free to believe what you want. I am no longer interested in this conversation,
because it isn't conversational. You insist on quizzing me. Please move on.

 

[Joy]

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