Material on foreign nation’s nuclear capabilities seized at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago

[Hans Blaster]

But if he was planning on selling the info in those documents, or trading them in exchange for money he owed to the Russian mafia, I seriously doubt that would have kept him from using an ordinary photocopier.

There are two issues with this:

1. When Trump had legitimate access to such information, it should have never been allowed into any place where an "ordinary copier" existed.

2. There is no reason to think Donald Trump knows how to work a photocopier. ("Make a copy of this for me.") So if any copies were made, there are either witnesses or confederates and any of either would be under the same legal jeopardy that he apparently is.

 

[RDKirk]

I have a very strong feeling, based on past things billed bombshells that turned out to be duds, that if a general idea of the contents of those documents is disclosed, it will be underwhelming.

To you, maybe, But probably not to the intelligence analysts of enemies to the US.

For instance:

I remember back in the 90s we discovered that a certain prime minister was addicted to astrology. That didn't mean much to most people--it wasn't even classified. My analyst for that area read about it in a magazine.

But when he applied it to the timing certain actions that nation was taking--timing that had stumped both the CIA and the DIA--everything fell into place. My analyst could then predict him with pinpoint accuracy. He always executed major actions on his "good" days. Our admiral was in ecstasy over our ability to get the scoop on the CIA.

The key to finding Osama bin Laden in 2011 lay in discovering the name of his driver ten years earlier...a seemingly innocuous bit of information dribbled out by a prisoner. But over the course of those ten years, that driver rose to be bin Laden's right-hand man. When his name later popped up in "chatter," we knew that particular source was bona fide, and following that particular source eventually led to his location.

One of the major things I saw dangerous in the unclassified emails released from Hillary Clinton's servers were the seemingly innocuous info addressees in those emails. The emails were from Clinton to various senior embassy officials, but the info addressees were permanent State and CIA officials who had been in their positions for years before and would be for years afterward. Those names popping up (or if they had popped up) in any other documents that made their way to enemies would establish the bona fides of any information in those documents.

 

[RDKirk]

But if he was planning on selling the info in those documents, or trading them in exchange for money he owed to the Russian mafia, I seriously doubt that would have kept him from using an ordinary photocopier.

The idea that the documents had been copied is a non-starter. It's not likely, it's not likely to have occurred on an unsecured copier, it's unlike that Trump copied them himself, and it's unlikely any government bureaucrat copied them illegally for him.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Let me make this too simple is Trump wanted to steal documents for some nefarious purpose such as passing them to a foreign government he could have easily photo copied them while he was president and passed the copies along to anyone, so let us not try to make something out of nothing.

If Trump stole the boxes of documents, then there would be no point of copying them. Before he left the white house. Ignoring wrong behavior isn't the right thing to do, especially if Trump plan to sell classified material to other countries. That up to the law to do, it has nothing to with what we want. Also stealing and refusing to give back classified material back to the government, isn't making something out of nothing. Everyone knows this is wrong, very bad. And we need to make sure this never happens again.

 

[Ceallaigh]

The idea that the documents had been copied is a non-starter. It's not likely, it's not likely to have occurred on an unsecured copier, it's unlike that Trump copied them himself, and it's unlikely any government bureaucrat copied them illegally for him.

I think you need to take this outside of government setups and think megaresort with umpteen servants to get a better perspective. He could have easily had an immigrant resort employee who barely reads English run them though a photocopier. Weren't they supposedly kept in a swimming pool supply room or something like that? I heard a lot about how unsecured they were and how any number of ordinary people could have gotten to them by just opening a door.

 

[Ceallaigh]

There are two issues with this:

1. When Trump had legitimate access to such information, it should have never been allowed into any place where an "ordinary copier" existed.

2. There is no reason to think Donald Trump knows how to work a photocopier. ("Make a copy of this for me.") So if any copies were made, there are either witnesses or confederates and any of either would be under the same legal jeopardy that he apparently is.

The documents were at his resort. He has umpteen servants working at that resort. It's far from being far fetched.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The documents were at his resort. He has umpteen servants working at that resort. It's far from being far fetched.

You're almost there...

Sensitive documents... insecure location where just any H1-B can copy them...

 

[Whyayeman]

The documents were at his resort. He has umpteen servants working at that resort.

It's far from being legal.

 

[Ceallaigh]

You're almost there...

Sensitive documents... insecure location where just any H1-B can copy them...

Yep. And yet Trump held onto the originals, even after they were subpoenaed, because he planned on trading them to the Russian cartel for debt forgiveness and or to sell them to the Saudis. Because even though he can orchestrate that, he doesn't know what a photocopier is. Or couldn't figure out how to photo them with a phone. I've photographed documents with instructions and schedules for a quick and easy look up on my phone.

 

[Ceallaigh]

The documents were at his resort. He has umpteen servants working at that resort.

It's far from being legal.

He's planning on selling them to the Saudis, remember? The whole thing is about espionage.

 

[Ceallaigh]

If Trump stole the boxes of documents, then there would be no point of copying them. Before he left the white house. Ignoring wrong behavior isn't the right thing to do, especially if Trump plan to sell classified material to other countries. That up to the law to do, it has nothing to with what we want. Also stealing and refusing to give back classified material back to the government, isn't making something out of nothing. Everyone knows this is wrong, very bad. And we need to make sure this never happens again.

By make sure it never happens again, I take it that doesn't mean another president never does it again, but rather Trump needs to be prevented from becoming president again.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Let me make this too simple is Trump wanted to steal documents for some nefarious purpose such as passing them to a foreign government he could have easily photo copied them while he was president and passed the copies along to anyone, so let us not try to make something out of nothing.

Folks have a lot of emotion tied into this. It can't be anything that's not severe enough to put him behind bars. You're shooting down hopes and prayers with your objective practicality.

 

[SimplyMe]

Is that what his lawyers are claiming?

No, just what some Trump supporters here (and nationwide) are trying to claim.

 

[SimplyMe]

While he was president, was it forbidden for him to take classified documents with him when he was away from the White House?

As has been pointed out, there are ways for Classified documents, that a President might need during a trip, to travel with him. As a general rule, I don't believe the President ever "takes classified documents with him." The President might identify documents he believe he will need for a trip and then security staffers would like make official copies of the documents and have them securely delivered to a SCIF, such as on Air Force One or a SCIF near where the President will be staying (such as in a consulate).

 

[Ceallaigh]

No, just what some Trump supporters here (and nationwide) are trying to claim.

Ah. I'll one up it. The documents were planted in Maralago by deep state operatives without his knowledge or consent.

 

[Ceallaigh]

As has been pointed out, there are ways for Classified documents, that a President might need during a trip, to travel with him. As a general rule, I don't believe the President ever "takes classified documents with him." The President might identify documents he believe he will need for a trip and then security staffers would like make official copies of the documents and have them securely delivered to a SCIF, such as on Air Force One or a SCIF near where the President will be staying (such as in a consulate).

But no taking his work home with him to the "southern white house".

 

[SimplyMe]

Let me make this too simple is Trump wanted to steal documents for some nefarious purpose such as passing them to a foreign government he could have easily photo copied them while he was president and passed the copies along to anyone, so let us not try to make something out of nothing.

You are making this both too easy and too difficult, even though those seem to contradict each other.

It isn't that easy to "take a picture with a phone" of the classified documents, since phones, cameras, and other electronic devices are generally not allowed in SCIFs, where the documents are kept -- and the exceptions are for secure devices (such as computers, copiers, etc, that are needed for the work being done). Your suggestion of just copying or taking a picture is not that easy -- the controls on those types of items in a SCIF tend to be extreme.

At the same time, if the President wants to share Classified information it is quite easy -- he simply shows the actual classified documents with whoever he wants, such as documents President Trump was reported to have shared with Russian officials visiting the White House. If a President wants to "sell" Classified documents to anyone, there isn't anyone that can really stop him (other than Congress impeaching the President, at which point he could be tried legally) -- but that prosecution can only be done after the fact, after the President has been impeached for already having sold (or tried to sell) information.

OTOH, a former President should have a difficult time sharing Classified documents as he should no longer have any -- or even unclassified documents from his Presidency (other than copies supplied by the National Archive). Granted, that wouldn't stop a former President from "selling," or just sharing, classified information that he can recall.

 

[SimplyMe]

But no taking his work home with him to the "southern white house".

I'm not saying he couldn't -- but again, the information would be sent to the SCIF at Mar-A-Lago securely, not taken there by the President, and kept in the SCIF (not allowed to be removed from the SCIF). Anything classified would have been returned to Washington when the SCIF was deactivated/dismantled.

 

[Tinker Grey]

The schedule for TOP SECRET information starts at 20 years before it's even considered for declassification.

Hmm ... I think everything at my company starts at 25 years if I'm not misunderstanding you. That is, 25 years from "now" is the "declassify on" date.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

By make sure it never happens again, I take it that doesn't mean another president never does it again, but rather Trump needs to be prevented from becoming president again.

No, what stops other future president from stealing classified documents? And selling them to the highest bidder. This should have never been a possibility.