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Why people reject the reality of Hell

Lazarus Short

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Now how do you apply that knowledge? Physical death only or eternal death as well?
Eve was deceived but Adam sinned willfully. Disobedience is sin from this illustration.

Over and over and over in the OT, God warns of death with no reference to "hell" or the death being eternal. Therefore, it should be understood as simple, ordinary death, from which we all get resurrected in time. Rewards (or lack of them) will vary - YMMV, as they say.
 
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Receivedgrace

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Over and over and over in the OT, God warns of death with no reference to "hell" or the death being eternal. Therefore, it should be understood as simple, ordinary death, from which we all get resurrected in time. Rewards (or lack of them) will vary - YMMV, as they say.
So I guess that Jesus was making stuff up.
Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
We all do get resurrected in time. Some to eternal life and the rest to eternal condemnation. No one gets out of the lake of fire ever.
 
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FineLinen

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Christ made atonement for our sin. He conquered sin with His resurrection from the dead.
It is about one thing. Gods' perfect righteousness and the offense that any sin places before the righteousness.
Hell was created for the devil and his angels not man but if man will not give up his sin he will perish with his sin. Repent or persh.
John 3:19-20

The Lord of Glory indeed conquered sin. The same ones made sinners are the ones made righteous.

Polus = polus

Keep on giving your thanks to God, for he is so good! His constant, tender love lasts forever! Let all his princely people sing, “His constant, tender love lasts forever!” Let all his holy priests sing, “His constant, tender love lasts forever!” Let all his lovers who bow low before him sing, “His constant, tender love lasts forever!” Out of my deep anguish and pain I prayed, and God, you helped me as a father. You came to my rescue and broke open the way into a beautiful and broad place. ~TPT
 
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Receivedgrace

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Over and over and over in the OT, God warns of death with no reference to "hell" or the death being eternal. Therefore, it should be understood as simple, ordinary death, from which we all get resurrected in time. Rewards (or lack of them) will vary - YMMV, as they say.
Just keep telling yourself that. It won't change the reality of eternal condemnation in the lake of fire.
The only question that really matters is whether your denial of eternal condemnation undermines yor belief in the word of God to the point at which you are not saved.
 
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FineLinen

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Just keep telling yourself that. It won't change the reality of eternal condemnation in the lake of fire.
The only question that really matters is whether your denial of eternal condemnation undermines yor belief in the word of God to the point at which you are not saved.
 
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FineLinen

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Just keep telling yourself that. It won't change the reality of eternal condemnation in the lake of fire.
The only question that really matters is whether your denial of eternal condemnation undermines yor belief in the word of God to the point at which you are not saved.

Nowhere is "eternal condemnation" or "eternal torment" in Scripture!

You should examine what theion & theioo mean in relation to the Lake.
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
Nowhere is "eternal condemnation" or "eternal torment" in Scripture!
You should examine what theion & theioo mean in relation to the Lake.
You should take your own advice. The Greek word "theioo" does not occur in the Bible anywhere. The Greek word "theion" occurs 7 times where it is translated "brimstone" i.e. sulfur.
Despite what the ancients may have thought sulfur has no, zero, none divine properties.
 
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FineLinen

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Search = "eternal condemnation" =

Your query has yielded no results in the KJV.

Search = "eternal torment" =

Your query has yielded no results in the KJV.

Search = "the love of God" =

Occurs 166 times in 43 verses in the KJV, including 13 exact phrases.

Keep on giving your thanks to God, for he is so good! His constant, tender love lasts forever! Let all his princely people sing, “His constant, tender love lasts forever!” Let all his holy priests sing, “His constant, tender love lasts forever!” Let all his lovers who bow low before him sing, “His constant, tender love lasts forever!” Out of my deep anguish and pain I prayed, and God, you helped me as a father. You came to my rescue and broke open the way into a beautiful and broad place. ~TPT
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
Search = "eternal condemnation" =
Your query has yielded no results in the KJV.
Search = "eternal torment" =
Your query has yielded no results in the KJV.
* * *
Keep on giving your thanks to God, for he is so good! His constant, tender love lasts forever! Let all his princely people sing, “His constant, tender love lasts forever!” Let all his holy priests sing, “His constant, tender love lasts forever!” Let all his lovers who bow low before him sing, “His constant, tender love lasts forever!” Out of my deep anguish and pain I prayed, and God, you helped me as a father. You came to my rescue and broke open the way into a beautiful and broad place. ~TPT
The only person who mentions "eternal torment" is you. Crank up that search engine and search for "eternal punishment" see what you get.
I have been posting the following at this forum for a few years. I don't recall anyone even addressing it and certainly not refuting it.

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
Who is better qualified than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted above and below, to know the correct translation of the Greek in the N.T.
?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.

EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.
In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some mis/uninformed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, that is an etymological fallacy. According to the EOB Greek scholars “kolasis” means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
…..It is understood that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars, backed up by 2000 years +/- of Greek scholarship, are competent enough to know the correct translation of obsolete words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer in use and to translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of obsolete words which occur in the KJV and to translate them correctly.
 
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Lazarus Short

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Just keep telling yourself that. It won't change the reality of eternal condemnation in the lake of fire.
The only question that really matters is whether your denial of eternal condemnation undermines yor belief in the word of God to the point at which you are not saved.

From the burning bush, to the fires of Daniel 7, to the sea of glass mingled with fire in Revelation 15:2, to the Lake of Fire, it's all Godfire - not "hellfire." The burning bush gives us the clue that it, Godfire, is not to hurt, kill, or punish us, since the bush was not consumed by the fire. In the same manner, the LoF will not hurt, kill, or punish us - it will cleanse us, being part of God's action as a Refiner of Men.
 
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Der Alte

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From the burning bush, to the fires of Daniel 7, to the sea of glass mingled with fire in Revelation 15:2, to the Lake of Fire, it's all Godfire - not "hellfire." The burning bush gives us the clue that it, Godfire, is not to hurt, kill, or punish us, since the bush was not consumed by the fire. In the same manner, the LoF will not hurt, kill, or punish us - it will cleanse us, being part of God's action as a Refiner of Men.
Nonsense! Cleanse is NOT mentioned even one time in the book of Revelation.
Revelation 14:10
(10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Revelation 20:10
(10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [a person] are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 
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Saint Steven

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Now how do you apply that knowledge? Physical death only or eternal death as well?
Eve was deceived but Adam sinned willfully. Disobedience is sin from this illustration.
I wonder what would have happened if Adam refused to eat thereof.

I divide death into physical and spiritual. The Fall was spiritual death as I understand it.

Genesis 3:22 NIV
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
 
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Der Alte

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Over and over and over in the OT, God warns of death with no reference to "hell" or the death being eternal. Therefore, it should be understood as simple, ordinary death, from which we all get resurrected in time. Rewards (or lack of them) will vary - YMMV, as they say.
The Jews found a place of eternal fiery punishment in the O.T. which they called both Ge Hinnom [valley of Hinnom] and sheol which were written in the 225 BC Septuagint [LXX] and the N.T. as "Gehenna" and "Hades". The biased opinions of non-Jews on this subject is irrelevant. Anyone interested in the truth could have found all this as easily as I did. All online, free.
My ¢¢ Below are quotes from three Jewish sources; the 1917 Jewish Encyclopedia, 1972 Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud. Which to date have not been, and I am convinced cannot be, refuted.
= = = = =
…..It is very enticing to claim that the Christian concept of "Hell" was somehow derived from Dante's 14th century writing “Inferno,” or some later writing. But according to these three sources, at least 16 centuries before Dante even scribbled one line, among the יהודים/Yehudim/ιουδαιων/Youdaion/Jews in Israel, before and during the time of Jesus, there was a significant belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom. Sheol and gehinnom are written Hades and Gehenna, respectively, in both the 225 BC LXX and the NT. As can be seen by the citations in this post The Jews later called both Sheol/Hades, and Ge Hinnom/Gehenna, “Hell.
…..There were different factions within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. These differing beliefs do not disprove anything in this post.
[1]1925 Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the sons of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this paragraph would be about 700 BC +/-, DA]​
Note: This is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any assumed/alleged bias of “modern” Christian translators. DA
…..This refutes the false narrative that the eleven [11] times Jesus mentioned “Gehenna” He was referring to the valley of GeHinnom/Gehenna where trash and bodies were supposedly always burning.
”(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai [30 BC-90 AD] wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
“But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab [Talmud]. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
“… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b).[Talmud] “When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; [Talmud] comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b)[Talmud].
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = = =
[2]1972 Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Link:
Gehinnom
http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia Judaica, v. 07 (Fey-Gor).pdf
= = = = = = = = = =
[3]Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [i.e. followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
 
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The Jews found a place of eternal fiery punishment in the O.T. which they called both Ge Hinnom [valley of Hinnom] and sheol which were written in the 225 BC Septuagint [LXX] and the N.T. as "Gehenna" and "Hades". The biased opinions of non-Jews on this subject is irrelevant. Anyone interested in the truth could have found all this as easily as I did. All online, free.
My ¢¢ Below are quotes from three Jewish sources; the 1917 Jewish Encyclopedia, 1972 Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud. Which to date have not been, and I am convinced cannot be, refuted.
= = = = =
…..It is very enticing to claim that the Christian concept of "Hell" was somehow derived from Dante's 14th century writing “Inferno,” or some later writing. But according to these three sources, at least 16 centuries before Dante even scribbled one line, among the יהודים/Yehudim/ιουδαιων/Youdaion/Jews in Israel, before and during the time of Jesus, there was a significant belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom. Sheol and gehinnom are written Hades and Gehenna, respectively, in both the 225 BC LXX and the NT. As can be seen by the citations in this post The Jews later called both Sheol/Hades, and Ge Hinnom/Gehenna, “Hell.
…..There were different factions within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. These differing beliefs do not disprove anything in this post.
[1]1925 Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the sons of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this paragraph would be about 700 BC +/-, DA]​
Note: This is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any assumed/alleged bias of “modern” Christian translators. DA
…..This refutes the false narrative that the eleven [11] times Jesus mentioned “Gehenna” He was referring to the valley of GeHinnom/Gehenna where trash and bodies were supposedly always burning.
”(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai [30 BC-90 AD] wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
“But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab [Talmud]. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
“… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b).[Talmud] “When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; [Talmud] comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b)[Talmud].
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = = =
[2]1972 Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Link:
Gehinnom
http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia Judaica, v. 07 (Fey-Gor).pdf
= = = = = = = = = =
[3]Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [i.e. followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.

The only thing that supports eternal hell in all of that, is a passage in Enoch and a passage in Judith. Both of which are works of dubious apocrypha. Clear comprehensive concise Rabbinical teaching of Judaism regarding hell, is that it is a year long place of purification.
 
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The only thing that supports eternal hell in all of that, is a passage in Enoch and a passage in Judith. Both of which are works of dubious apocrypha. Clear comprehensive concise Rabbinical teaching of Judaism regarding hell, is that it is a year long place of purification.
Is this the same clear and concise rabbinical teaching of Judaism that Christ revealed to be corrupt? A doctrine of men and not God?
 
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Is this the same clear and concise rabbinical teaching of Judaism that Christ revealed to be corrupt? A doctrine of men and not God?
What's in question is what the Jews believed about hell in Jesus' time. Outside of scripture of course. We all know what actual scripture said about hell, and with the exception of a couple of verses, there's no indication and certainly no mention of a place of eternal fiery torment.
 
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What's in question is what the Jews believed about hell in Jesus' time. Outside of scripture of course. We all know what actual scripture said about hell, and with the exception of a couple of verses, there's no indication and certainly no mention of a place of eternal fiery torment.
Why would I care what the apostate Jews thought? The Sadducees did not believe in eternal life while the Pharisees did.
We are to believe what Jesus taught.
 
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Why would I care what the apostate Jews thought? The Sadducees did not believe in eternal life while the Pharisees did.
We are to believe what Jesus taught.
You joined in on something I said to someone else regarding his post. If you don't care about what's being discussed between two people, then why join in?
 
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Receivedgrace

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You joined in on something I said to someone else regarding his post. If you don't care about what's being discussed between two people, then why join in?
Are we in a public forum?
Why are you concerned about what the Jews thought or taught when you have the correct teachings of Jesus at your disposal?
 
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Servus

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Are we in a public forum?
Why are you concerned about what the Jews thought or taught when you have the correct teachings of Jesus at your disposal?
The answer to your question is in post #613 and #614.
 
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