Why people reject the reality of Hell

[Lazarus Short]

It makes sense to me that to have "death," you must have the dead...at least one.

 

[Jipsah]

don't rely on versions. I read both Greek and Hebrew and I have the latest editions of Brown, Driver, Briggs Hebrew lexicon and Bauer, Danker, Arndt, Gingrich Greek lexicon.
"No more death" means no more dying, end of life. "No more death" does NOT mean all the dead return to life. To mean that it would read "no more dead!"

As I noted, "death" never really means death in your custom translation. It always acquires a "meaning" that corresponds with your Baptist ECT doctrine.

 

[Der Alte]

As I noted, "death" never really means death in your custom translation. It always acquires a "meaning" that corresponds with your Baptist ECT doctrine.

A deliberate misrepresentation of what I have posted.
verses which show that the LOF is not synonymous with death or destruction.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

. Rev 21:4 says “there shall be no more death.” In vs. 5 Jesus said “Behold I make all things new.”
“No more death” but 3 verses later, Rev 21:8 says eight groups of the unrighteous; [the]fearful, [the] unbelieving, the abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, idolaters and liars “shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is [still called] the second death.”
If there is “no more death,” after vs. 4, then those thrown into the lake of fire in vs. 8 do not die although it is called the “second death.”.

Revelation 22:11
(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

The last chapter of the Bible, Rev. 22:11., 10 more vss. No salvation, no destruction, no death, only “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still.”
나는 당신이 이것을 처리할 수 있기를 바랍니다

 

[Jipsah]

A deliberate misrepresentation of what I have posted.

Nope, you've made it quite clear tht "death" only means death when it doesn't conflict with ECT doctrine.

verses which show that the LOF

Also referred to in Scripture as the second death...

is not synonymous with death or destruction.

Right, because "death" doesn't really mean death if it conflicts with your beloved ECT doctrine.

 

[Der Alte]

Nope, you've made it quite clear tht "death" only means death when it doesn't conflict with ECT doctrine.
Also referred to in Scripture as the second death...
Right, because "death" doesn't really mean death if it conflicts with your beloved ECT doctrine.

More deliberate misrepresentations of what I say.
네 이웃에 대하여 거짓 증거하지 말지니라

 

[Receivedgrace]

To defeat the consequence of sin, death.

Why was that necessary?

 

[Jipsah]

More deliberate misrepresentations of what I say.

OK, you say: "the LOF is not synonymous with death or destruction", right?.

The Scripture says: Revelation 21:8 "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Your opinion and the words of Scripture appear to be directly opposed.

 

[FineLinen]

OK, you say: "the LOF is not synonymous with death or destruction", right?.

The Lake of Fire has two foundational dimensions, theion and theioo. Both words describe the Lake of Divinity, our glorious Yah.

He changes & transforms everything He touches!

 

[Saint Steven]

Why was that necessary?

Salvation is really only about two men. The first and second Adam (Christ)
Conquering death pays the consequence for all of humankind.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[Der Alte]

...

The Lake of Fire has two foundational dimensions, theion and theioo. Both words describe the Lake of Divinity, our glorious Yah.
He changes & transforms everything He touches!

Total nonsense! Except for the fact that theioo never occurs anywhere in the Bible and theion occurs 6 times in Rev. where it is translated "brimstone." i.e. sulfur. And, despite what the ancients might have believed, theion does not now and never has had any sacred properties.

 

[Der Alte]

It makes sense to me that to have "death," you must have the dead...at least one.

Not necessarily. These two verses the words highlighted in red are not in the original. They were added by the translators.

Isaiah 59:10
(10) We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.
Hebrews 11:12
(12) Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.​

 

[Lazarus Short]

Not necessarily. These two verses the words highlighted in red are not in the original. They were added by the translators.

Isaiah 59:10
(10) We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.
Hebrews 11:12
(12) Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.​

Irrelevant examples - the Bible is rich with mentions of the dead. Therefore, there is death. No dead = no death, no death = no dead...but you do not seem capable of answering head-on.

 

[Der Alte]

Irrelevant examples - the Bible is rich with mentions of the dead. Therefore, there is death. No dead = no death, no death = no dead...but you do not seem capable of answering head-on.

Not irrelevant, evidence that "dead" as many other words, is sometimes used figuratively/hyperbolically. So simply saying "dead" without other information does not necessarily mean a lifeless body.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Not irrelevant, evidence that "dead" as many other words, is sometimes used figuratively/hyperbolically. So simply saying "dead" without other information does not necessarily mean a lifeless body.

I suppose I would need to make a list for you.

 

[Receivedgrace]

Salvation is really only about two men. The first and second Adam (Christ)
Conquering death pays the consequence for all of humankind.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Christ made atonement for our sin. He conquered sin with His resurrection from the dead.
It is about one thing. Gods' perfect righteousness and the offense that any sin places before the righteousness.
Hell was created for the devil and his angels not man but if man will not give up his sin he will perish with his sin. Repent or persh.
John 3:19-20

 

[Saint Steven]

Christ made atonement for our sin. He conquered sin with His resurrection from the dead.
It is about one thing. Gods' perfect righteousness and the offense that any sin places before the righteousness.
Hell was created for the devil and his angels not man but if man will not give up his sin he will perish with his sin. Repent or persh.
John 3:19-20

God made clear the consequence for sin right up front. Death.

Genesis 2:16-17 NIV
And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

 

[DavidPT]

NM

 

[Der Alte]

I suppose I would need to make a list for you.

No need for a list.

Matthew 8:22
(22) But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Luke 9:60
(60) Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.​

Does this mean that dead bodies get out of their graves and bury other dead people? Or is the first occurrence of "dead" in these 2 vss. used figuratively?

 

[DavidPT]

If there is “no more death,” after vs. 4, then those thrown into the lake of fire in vs. 8 do not die although it is called the “second death.”.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


And what else does that verse say? neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain. Are you also going to apply those things to ECT as well, or are you just going to cherry pick in this verse and only apply no more death to ECT?

 

[Der Alte]

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And what else does that verse say? neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain. Are you going to apply those to ECT as well, or are you just going to cherry pick in this verse and only apply no more death to ECT?

This is a typical UR response take one verse out of several and attack it as if this is all I said.
Here is that one vs. in context of what I said.
Verses which show that the LOF is not synonymous with death or destruction.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
...
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

. Rev 21:4 says “there shall be no more death.” In vs. 5 Jesus said “Behold I make all things new.”
“No more death” but 3 verses later, Rev 21:8 says eight groups of the unrighteous; [the]fearful, [the] unbelieving, the abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, idolaters and liars “shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is [still called] the second death.”
If there is “no more death,” after vs. 4, then those thrown into the lake of fire in vs. 8 do not die although it is called the “second death.”.

Revelation 22:11
(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

The last chapter of the Bible, Rev. 22:11., 10 more vss. No salvation, no destruction, no death, only “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still.”
What happens in the lake of fire. The only vs. which addresses that is Rev 20:10

Revelation 20:10
(10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

Three sentient beings, one of whom is a person, the false prophet, do not die, although the LOF is called "the second death." "[T]hey are tormented day and night for ever and ever." If the same thing happens to everyone thrown into the LOF then they also will be "tormented day and night for ever and ever."

 

[Receivedgrace]

God made clear the consequence for sin right up front. Death.

Genesis 2:16-17 NIV
And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Now how do you apply that knowledge? Physical death only or eternal death as well?
Eve was deceived but Adam sinned willfully. Disobedience is sin from this illustration.