Will you let the bible ...

[bbbbbbb]

I grant all those things concerning God. The scriptures are not God and it is people who interpret the scriptures.

Quite correct. Individuals can interpret the scriptures for themselves or they can take a pass on it and follow the interpretations of other sinners such as themselves who have taken the time and effort to come to their interpretations. A third option, which most folks seem to follow is to simply not bother with the whole issue of interpreting and understanding Christian doctrine at all. They simply choose to go with the flow wherever it might lead.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

go with the flow wherever it might lead.

In some ways that is the option that both the previous options are using too.

 

[Hammster]

Okay, I see this is more of a game than a conversation. Thanks ;-)

Maybe for you, but not for me. I’m trying to get you to see that we still follow the law. The power to do so is through the gospel.

 

[GDL]

My religion, my faith is more wedded to being kind and showing compassion than it is to law and gospel, to justice and rightness. So I ask of my self "will you let the bible teach you to punish and to judge the 'world' casting some away?" which translates to will I let the bible teach me to be unkind and hard - to treat anyone badly because justice demands it or their faults deserve it?

1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Why did you reference 1Cor6:3 with your statement? The context is Paul rebuking that assembly for treating their judiciary as being unimportant. That would be the judiciary that judges and even penalizes its people for their bad and wrong behavior.

Kindness and compassion have their place. So do other actions. Love neighbor is written in the context of rebuking neighbors who are out of line with God & people. Kindness and compassion are not all there is in a fallen world. In fact, that line of thinking is normally what certain parts of the unbelieving world posit as the overall solution for mankind.

NET Romans 11:22 Notice therefore the kindness and harshness of God– harshness toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness toward you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Kindness and compassion have their place. So do other actions. Love neighbor is written in the context of rebuking neighbors who are out of line with God & people. Kindness and compassion are not all there is in a fallen world. In fact, that line of thinking is normally what certain parts of the unbelieving world posit as the overall solution for mankind.

Perhaps mercy is greater than justice?

James 2:13 For judgement is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy; yet mercy triumphs over judgement.​

 

[Hammster]

Perhaps mercy is greater than justice?

James 2:13 For judgement is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy; yet mercy triumphs over judgement.​

You might want to start using scripture in context.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

You might want to start using scripture in context.

How would that change the idea that mercy is good?

 

[Hammster]

How would that change the idea that mercy is good?

Don’t move the goalposts. You said that mercy was greater than justice.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Don’t move the goalposts. You said that mercy was greater than justice.

The verse says mercy triumphs over justice, that sounds like mercy trumps justice.

 

[Hammster]

The verse says mercy triumphs over justice, that sounds like mercy trumps justice.

Which is why I said to not take it out of context. You’ve started with a false premise (my faith is more wedded to being kind and showing compassion than it is to law and gospel, to justice and rightness) and then found verses that you think support that premise. That’s not how exegesis works. It is, however, how eisegesis works, and with that you can make scripture say what you want.

 

[bbbbbbb]

In some ways that is the option that both the previous options are using too.

Yes, it definitely can be,

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Which is why I said to not take it out of context. You’ve started with a false premise (my faith is more wedded to being kind and showing compassion than it is to law and gospel, to justice and rightness) and then found verses that you think support that premise. That’s not how exegesis works. It is, however, how eisegesis works, and with that you can make scripture say what you want.

You got the process reversed. I started with something akin to Calvin's evangelical perspective and after reading the scriptures around 18 times, maybe more maybe less, noticed a lot of things that needed work including how to handle the bible.

 

[Hammster]

You got the process reversed. I started with something akin to Calvin's evangelical perspective and after reading the scriptures around 18 times, maybe more maybe less, noticed a lot of things that needed work including how to handle the bible.

So why should we trust your ability?

 

[Strong in Him]

My religion, my faith is more wedded to being kind and showing compassion than it is to law and gospel, to justice and rightness. So I ask of my self "will you let the bible teach you to punish and to judge the 'world' casting some away?" which translates to will I let the bible teach me to be unkind and hard - to treat anyone badly because justice demands it or their faults deserve it?

I don't believe the Bible teaches anyone to be unkind, and if that's how people read it, they misunderstand it.

The Bible reveals God to us - God is love, 1 John 4:8.
He loved us so much that he sent his Son to die for us, John 3:16, Romans 5:8.
Jesus told us to love as he loves, John 13:34-35

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I don't believe the Bible teaches anyone to be unkind, and if that's how people read it, they misunderstand it.

The Bible reveals God to us - God is love, 1 John 4:8.
He loved us so much that he sent his Son to die for us, John 3:16, Romans 5:8.
Jesus told us to love as he loves, John 13:34-35

I truly wish you were right. Yet so many scholarly gentlemen of past ages and so many scholarly gentlemen of our times have advocated harsh treatments for all sorts of people who they believe to be reprehensible in one matter or another.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

So why should we trust your ability?

Each person must trust according to his or her own wits. Good exegesis must 'trust' according to the text. Mercy triumphs over justice has a meaning. The text suggests that mercy wins over justice.

 

[Hammster]

Each people must trust according to his or her own wits. Good exegesis must 'trust' according to the text. Mercy triumphs over justice has a meaning. The text suggests that mercy wins over justice.

You put compassion over the law, though. That’s what your OP says. Compassion trumps the gospel.

 

[Clare73]

Each people must trust according to his or her own wits. Good exegesis must 'trust' according to the text. Mercy triumphs over justice has a meaning.
The text suggests that mercy wins over justice.

Mercy "wins" over justice only by paying the price of justice. . .justice is not ignored nor is it trumped, it is, and always will be, satisfied; i.e., its demands absolutely met.

That's God's way. . .

 

[ViaCrucis]

There is a law of love mentioned in the scriptures, is that the law to which you refer as "the law"?

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.​

Yes. That's the law. Whatever God commands is law.

The Gospel does not consist in commandments, but in the promises of God.

Gospel = good news. The good news is not found in commandments, which in our sin we fail to keep and therefore stand condemned before God; the good news is found in God's promises and gifts which are given freely; and the promises of God are life and peace on account of Christ who has made reconciliation between God and us by His life, death, and resurrection.

The woman caught in adultery doesn't hear good news if Jesus had said, "Yes, you were disobedient to the commandments, go obey the commandments", the good news the woman receives is, "Neither do I condemn you" and in the freedom of those words the woman is then given the benediction, "Go and sin no more". It is the forgiveness and peace which Christ gives her that is good news, and good news that lifts her up--to which she is now invited to get up and start walking again.

If it's not good news, then it's not Gospel.

There is to be preaching of both Law and Gospel. Which is why Christ gives His Church the Keys to bind and to loose, to retain and forgive sins. Law and Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

I truly wish you were right. Yet so many scholarly gentlemen of past ages and so many scholarly gentlemen of our times have advocated harsh treatments for all sorts of people who they believe to be reprehensible in one matter or another.

Men of all ages and all times will take every opportunity to justify their injustice and wickedness. If we take Law and Gospel seriously, then that means standing against that abuse and insisting on the way of Christ.

The Law commands compassion.
The Gospel reveals the compassion of God on us sinners.

In light of God's compassion toward us, we are now called to show that same compassion to others. It is the compassion of God in the Gospel that compels us to compassion toward our neighbor.

-CryptoLutheran