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Saturday or Sunday Church?

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Eloy Craft

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5 Have passed 1 is and 1 is yet to come.but when He comes He can only stay a short time.
The 7th (Sat.) Is the 8 th (eternal day) and; of the seven.(OC)
Salvation history. The OC isn't abolished but lifted up in the NC..should be clear since worship is taken from the Jews.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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5 Have passed 1 is and 1 is yet to come.but when He comes He can only stay a short time.
The 7th (Sat.) Is the 8 th (eternal day) and; of the seven.(OC)
Salvation history. The OC isn't abolished but lifted up in the NC..should be clear if worship is taken from the Jews.

Sorry I can't read your cryptic post.

According to scripture the saints keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus in the New Covenant. Revelation 14:12 There is no Sunday-keeping commandment of God in the New Covenant, but there is for Sabbath-keeping that God wrote in our hearts and minds instead of deleting them. Hebrews 8:10

Jesus warned us of not keeping the commandment of God and points directly to the Ten Matthew 15:3-9 over keeping man's traditions. We should obey God over man.
 
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BobRyan

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Paul didn’t say anything about the sacrifices he said a Sabbath day.

Not "the Sabbath" - not the 7th day Sabbath - of the 4th commandment - as even many pro-Sunday Bible scholars admit. But rather "a Sabbath" one of the many annual Sabbaths in Lev 23.

Also Paul did not say "no longer keep" -- he said do not judge others -- just as Jesus said in Matt 7 before the cross.

But when he talks about "shadow Sabbaths" -- it is specifically about those animal-sacrifice annual Sabbaths of Lev 23 -- since they alone are shadowing a future event while Ex 20:8-11 and Gen 2:1-3 point to the weekly Sabbath as a memorial of a past event and it was created in Gen 2 without any shadow animal sacrifices.

This is not the "Bible Sabbath keeping Christian pov" distinctive... rather almost all Bible scholars on both side of the Sabbath debate admit to it when it comes to the weekly Sabbath.

I think it is more effective if instead of people arguing against their own Sunday keeping scholarship -- that they focus instead on the differences between the Bible Sabbath groups and the Sunday ones.
 
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bbbbbbb

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The weekly Sabbath is a commandment of God written by God's own finger and is part of the Ten Commandments God wrote on stone that is eternal Exodus 20:8-11. The weekly Sabbath started at creation before sin as it is God's perfect plan. Genesis 2:1-3

The other sabbath(s) annual festivals all came after sin and are not part of the Ten Commandments but are part of the law of Moses found in ordinances. The sacrificial system found in these ordinances for the forgiveness of sin all points to Christ at the cross as He became our perfect sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins when we repent and turn to Christ. The Ten Commandments points out sin Romans 7:7 and the annual sabbath(s) feast days was added because of sin. Hope this helps.

Thank you for confirming that you believe that God dispensed with all but Saturday for Christians. Thus, Christians are free to engage in homosexuality, incest, and fornication but not adultery. However, that is not the topic of this thread.

What this leaves, for you and like-minded folks, is the commandment to "keep the Sabbath holy". What this actually appears to mean for yourself and like-minded folks, is to engage in nineteenth-century American Protestant religious activities on Saturday only. Is this a correct observation?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Thank you for confirming that you believe that God dispensed with all but Saturday for Christians. Thus, Christians are free to engage in homosexuality, incest, and fornication but not adultery. However, that is not the topic of this thread.

What this leaves, for you and like-minded folks, is the commandment to "keep the Sabbath holy". What this actually appears to mean for yourself and like-minded folks, is to engage in nineteenth-century American Protestant religious activities on Saturday only. Is this a correct observation?
You must not be reading what I posted or don't understand, that's okay you are free to believe what you want and it all gets sorted out soon enough. Take care.
 
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HIM

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Thank you for confirming that you believe that God dispensed with all but Saturday for Christians. Thus, Christians are free to engage in homosexuality, incest, and fornication but not adultery. However, that is not the topic of this thread.

What this leaves, for you and like-minded folks, is the commandment to "keep the Sabbath holy". What this actually appears to mean for yourself and like-minded folks, is to engage in nineteenth-century American Protestant religious activities on Saturday only. Is this a correct observation?
Let's Try this again. Let's take a look at the context in Colossians chapter 2 shall we?

Beware lest anyone spoil, steal us away. For we are complete in Him, established in the faith. Circumcised with the circumcision made without hands in the putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ in Baptism wherein the body of the sins of the flesh is buried, put off. And we being dead in our sins and the uncircumcision of the flesh are now risen, quicken together with Him through Baptism, the circumcision made without hands; forgiving us of all trespasses through Faith in operation of God. Therefore Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances because we have been forgiven of our trespasses. For our sins have been cut off through the circumcision made without hands and the handwriting ordinances of judgment and condemnation that were against us were taken away and nailed to the cross because they are not needed anymore because we now have our forgiveness in Christ through the faith in the operation of God. Not the statutes and laws that told us what sin is, but the ordinances which were condemning; that dealt with when we sinned. And certainly not the Ten commandments and the Sabbath therein. For they also tell us what sin is.

Having spoiled the principalities, that which was established first, the handwriting of ordinances and it's power. That which was against us and contrary to us. Condemning us in it's judgement due to our sins. But now we are forgiven in Christ so it is not needed. So it's authority and power has been taken away; spoiled.

Let therefore, because of everything that was just said. Let no man judge you either in meat and drink offerings, holy days, new moon celebrations and Sabbaths in which were also written in the handwriting of ordinances that dealt with when we sinned. For it's power has been spoiled, stripped away, for we have been forgiven through Christ and the things they symbolize are but a shadow of things to come but the Body is Christ which we are now complete in. Please take note they are to come. So the stance that Christ is now are Sabbath is also debunked here.

Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
 
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BobRyan

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Thank you for confirming that you believe that God dispensed with all but Saturday for Christians. Thus, Christians are free to engage in homosexuality,

No one has said that "but you" so far...

Is this what you want us to notice???

How is that sort of thing supposed to work? Because it looks a lot like "ignore everything posted so far and imagine for a moment that what I say next -- is what someone else said"???
 
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BNR32FAN

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The weekly Sabbath is a commandment of God written by God's own finger and is part of the Ten Commandments God wrote on stone that is eternal Exodus 20:8-11. The weekly Sabbath started at creation before sin as it is God's perfect plan. Genesis 2:1-3

The other sabbath(s) annual festivals all came after sin and are not part of the Ten Commandments but are part of the law of Moses found in ordinances. The sacrificial system found in these ordinances for the forgiveness of sin all points to Christ at the cross as He became our perfect sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins when we repent and turn to Christ. The Ten Commandments points out sin Romans 7:7 and the annual sabbath(s) feast days was added because of sin. Hope this helps.

Yeah unfortunately we’re not permitted to allow you to judge us for not keeping a Sabbath Day according to Paul in Colossians 2:16. He gave no indication that and particular Sabbath days were omitted from that statement so I have to conclude that none were omitted unless otherwise specified.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Yeah unfortunately we’re not permitted to allow you to judge us for not keeping a Sabbath Day according to Paul in Colossians 2:16. He gave no indication that and particular Sabbath days were omitted from that statement so I have to conclude that none were omitted unless otherwise specified.
I have no interest in judging you or anyone else. Pointing out scripture is not judging. I'm only sharing the scripture out of love before we all have to stand before Jesus come judgement day. 2 Corinthians 5:10
 
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guevaraj

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5 Have passed 1 is and 1 is yet to come.but when He comes He can only stay a short time. The 7th (Sat.) Is the 8 th (eternal day) and; of the seven.(OC) Salvation history. The OC isn't abolished but lifted up in the NC..should be clear since worship is taken from the Jews.
Brother, that assumes that Sunday is important in the Bible when it doesn't appear even once. Wherever Sunday was supposed, the passage actually speaks from the point of view of Saturday as the most important day of the week. No translation has understood the "expression" of God: "the first of the Sabbaths". It does not refer to Sunday but to Saturday being the first Sabbath, another way of referring to the seventh day of the creation week. This is necessary because the Sabbath falls between two days of the week in the Promised Land as shown in the passage below. The Sabbath in the Promised Land falls and takes halves between Friday and Saturday, so you only get half of a Friday and half of a Saturday in the Promised Land, with a Sabbath taking halves between those two days, giving us the following order: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Sabbath, and Saturday, the Sabbath being an eighth division in the seven-day week.

361381_ff7aae7ab7169d40699276fc6f90eac7.png


The "evening" ending the Sabbath in the Promised Land is part of Saturday, as shown in the passage below where God uses an "expression" that was not previously understood: "the first of the Sabbaths". This "expression" refers to the first Sabbath of creation week or another way of saying the seventh day of the week that we call Saturday. I will use Saturday for the seventh day as different from the Sabbath, which is separate from the seventh day in the Promised Land, to correct the translation of this "expression" of God. Here, "as it dawns beyond Saturday" refers to the end of the second half of Saturday, the night half from evening to morning, where Jesus rose on a Saturday night after the Sabbath in the Promised Land and before the morning begins Sunday, as the days of creation are corrected from human tradition since Joshua in Hebrews 3 and 4. In conclusion, Jesus rose on a Saturday night, after the Sabbath ended in the "evening" and before Sunday began in the "morning".

long after the Sabbath (evening), as it dawns beyond Saturday (morning), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, to see the tomb. (Mathew 28:1, my own translation)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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ozso

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Not "the Sabbath" - not the 7th day Sabbath - of the 4th commandment - as even many pro-Sunday Bible scholars admit. But rather "a Sabbath" one of the many annual Sabbaths in Lev 23.

Also Paul did not say "no longer keep" -- he said do not judge others -- just as Jesus said in Matt 7 before the cross.

But when he talks about "shadow Sabbaths" -- it is specifically about those animal-sacrifice annual Sabbaths of Lev 23 -- since they alone are shadowing a future event while Ex 20:8-11 and Gen 2:1-3 point to the weekly Sabbath as a memorial of a past event and it was created in Gen 2 without any shadow animal sacrifices.

This is not the "Bible Sabbath keeping Christian pov" distinctive... rather almost all Bible scholars on both side of the Sabbath debate admit to it when it comes to the weekly Sabbath.

I think it is more effective if instead of people arguing against their own Sunday keeping scholarship -- that they focus instead on the differences between the Bible Sabbath groups and the Sunday ones.

Most Christians will agree that Paul makes it clear in Colossians 2:16, that those kinds of rules and observances are not requirements for gentile believers. And that Paul goes into greater detail about it in Romans 14:1-10.

The SDA version is different of course.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Brother, that assumes that Sunday is important in the Bible when it doesn't appear even once. Wherever Sunday was supposed, the passage actually speaks from the point of view of Saturday as the most important day of the week. No translation has understood the "expression" of God: "the first of the Sabbaths". It does not refer to Sunday but to Saturday being the first Sabbath, another way of referring to the seventh day of the creation week. This is necessary because the Sabbath inserts itself between two days of the week in the Promised Land as shown in the passage below. The Sabbath in the Promised Land falls and takes halves between Friday and Saturday, so you only get half of a Friday and half of a Saturday in the Promised Land, with a Sabbath taking halves between those two days, giving us the following order: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Sabbath, and Saturday, the Sabbath being an eighth division in the seven-day week.

361381_ff7aae7ab7169d40699276fc6f90eac7.png


The "evening" ending the Sabbath in the Promised Land is part of Saturday, as shown in the passage below where God uses an "expression" that was not previously understood: "the first of the Sabbaths". This "expression" refers to the first Sabbath of creation week or another way of saying the seventh day of the week that we call Saturday. I will use Saturday for the seventh day as different from the Sabbath, which is separate from the seventh day in the Promised Land, to correct the translation of this "expression" of God. Here, "as it dawns beyond Saturday" refers to the end of the second half of Saturday, the night half from evening to morning, where Jesus rose on a Saturday night after the Sabbath in the Promised Land and before the morning begins Sunday, as the days of creation are corrected from human tradition since Joshua in Hebrews 3 and 4. In conclusion, Jesus rose on a Saturday night, after the Sabbath ended in the "evening" and before Sunday began in the "morning".

long after the Sabbath (evening), as it dawns beyond Saturday (morning), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, to see the tomb. (Mathew 28:1, my own translation)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Just clarification- this is not an SDA teaching, this is unique to this poster.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Let therefore, because of everything that was just said. Let no man judge you either in meat and drink offerings, holy days, new moon celebrations and Sabbaths in which were also written in the handwriting of ordinances that dealt with when we sinned. For it's power has been spoiled, stripped away, for we have been forgiven through Christ and the things they symbolize are but a shadow of things to come but the Body is Christ which we are now complete in. Please take note they are to come. So the stance that Christ is now are Sabbath is also debunked here.

Ok so by this same logic if you are correct then wouldn’t that also mean that Christ is not our Passover now since your saying He’s not our Sabbath now since the Passover also falls into that category?
 
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HIM

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Most Christians will agree that Paul makes it clear in Colossians 2:16, that these kinds of rules are not requirements for gentile believers. And that Paul goes into greater detail about it in Romans 14:1-10.

The SDA version is different of course.
Your only argument so far is most Christians don't agree with you. So you base you beliefs on what most Christians think. Thank God the Apostles did not base their beliefs on what others thought. Since we already established you have no argument against what was shown to you in regards to Romans 14. Let's take a look at the context in Colossians chapter 2 shall we?

Beware lest anyone spoil, steal us away. For we are complete in Him, established in the faith. Circumcised with the circumcision made without hands in the putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ in Baptism wherein the body of the sins of the flesh is buried, put off. And we being dead in our sins and the uncircumcision of the flesh are now risen, quicken together with Him through Baptism, the circumcision made without hands; forgiving us of all trespasses through Faith in operation of God. Therefore Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances because we have been forgiven of our trespasses. For our sins have been cut off through the circumcision made without hands and the handwriting ordinances of judgment and condemnation that were against us were taken away and nailed to the cross because they are not needed anymore because we now have our forgiveness in Christ through the faith in the operation of God. Not the statutes and laws that told us what sin is, but the ordinances which were condemning; that dealt with when we sinned. And certainly not the Ten commandments and the Sabbath therein. For they also tell us what sin is.

Having spoiled the principalities, that which was established first, the handwriting of ordinances and it's power. That which was against us and contrary to us. Condemning us in it's judgement due to our sins. But now we are forgiven in Christ so it is not needed. So it's authority and power has been taken away; spoiled.

Let therefore, because of everything that was just said. Let no man judge you either in meat and drink offerings, holy days, new moon celebrations and Sabbaths in which were also written in the handwriting of ordinances that dealt with when we sinned. For it's power has been spoiled, stripped away, for we have been forgiven through Christ and the things they symbolize are but a shadow of things to come but the Body is Christ which we are now complete in. Please take note they are to come. So the stance that Christ is now are Sabbath is also debunked here.

Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
 
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HIM

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Ok so by this same logic if you are correct then wouldn’t that also mean that Christ is not our Passover now since your saying He’s not our Sabbath now since the Passover also falls into that category?
One rabbit hole after another.
There is so much more in that post you responded to that shows the stance you put forth is wrong. It shows the handwriting of ordinances mentioned, that were contrary to us were those in which dealt with our sins. And it also shows that verse 16 is being said in context to what was previously stated by the use of the word "therefore". So with that being true; the sabbaths mention is not of the Ten
commandments but of the handwriting of ordinances. This is a fact that is brought out by the context.

So you ignore all that and go to the last statement, ignoring all that was brought out in the context of the passage?

Really? Even with the fact that the post also brought out the meat and drink offerings, holy days, new moons and sabbaths are mentioned as being a shadow of things to come shows that the fulfillment of the things mentioned has not been fulfilled. And yet you bring up the Passover which is stated in scripture in relation to Christ and Him being are Passover? And make matters worse you conflate that with the false teaching that Jesus is our Sabbath. Which is not even once taught anywhere in the Holy Writ.
 
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John Mullally

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Most Christians will agree that Paul makes it clear in Colossians 2:16, that those kinds of rules and observances are not requirements for gentile believers. And that Paul goes into greater detail about it in Romans 14:1-10.

The SDA version is different of course.
Agree. The earlier letter to Gentile believers that details which Jewish laws they should observe (which was drafted by Peter, Paul, and James the brother of Jesus) in Acts 15:23-29 does not mention the Sabbath (conspicuous by its absence). Per the NT, we can safely ignore the modern day Judaizers.
 
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HIM

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Agree. The earlier letter to Gentile believers that details which Jewish laws they should observe (which was drafted by Peter, Paul, and James the brother of Jesus) in Acts 15:23-29 does mention the Sabbath (conspicuous by its absence). Per the NT, we can safely ignore the modern day Judaizers.
Why the label of Judaizers? No one has insulted you? That is a personal attack btw.

Anyway such a faulty argument. The Sabbath is of the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments. None of them are mentioned in Acts 15. And neither is the other laws within the Book of the Law that show us what sin is. Like the laws pertaining to beastiality for instance.

And what about the fact that the Sabbath is mention in Acts 15? The following verse starts with the word "for". That means what is about to be said is the reason for what was just said. So why is the fact that Moses is read every Sabbath the reason for the few laws given? And if the Sabbath is done away with why mention it as a time of gathering when Moses is read in reference to new converts?

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
 
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John Mullally

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Why the label of Judaizers? No one has insulted you? That is a personal attack btw.
First century Judaizers attempted to put Gentile believers in bondage to a set of Mosaic laws that did not apply to them - same with the modern day equivalent.
And what about the fact that the Sabbath is mention in Acts 15? The following verse starts with the word "for". That means what is about to be said is the reason for what was just said. So why is the fact that Moses is read every Sabbath the reason for the few laws given? And if the Sabbath is done away with why mention it as a time of gathering when Moses is read in reference to new converts?
James mentioned that Jewish believers met on the Sabbath - so the Jerusalem Council did consider that piece of information. Nevertheless, the substance of their decision is entirely in the letter sent to the Gentiles on which Mosaic laws to observe (Acts 15:23-29) and it has no mention of the Sabbath - which is no accident.
 
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HIM

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First century Judaizers attempted to put Gentile believers in bondage to a set of Mosaic laws that did not apply to them - same with the modern day equivalent.
We are not to call one another names. It is disrespectful. And no one is doing as you say. We are not in anyway.

James mentioned that Jewish believers met on the Sabbath - so the Jerusalem Council did consider that piece of information. Nevertheless, the substance of their decision is entirely in the letter sent to the Gentiles (Acts 15:23-29) which has no mention of the Sabbath.
Because Gentiles meet every Sabbath with fellow Jewish believers where the Book of the Law is read is why it was said.

And as was stated. None of Ten Commandments are mentioned in Acts 15. And neither is the other laws within the Book of the Law that show us what sin is. Like the laws pertaining to beastiality for instance. So according to the theology you follow none of the Ten or any other of the laws that tell us what sin is matter except for the ones mentioned in Acts 15.
 
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John Mullally

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We are not to call one another names. It is disrespectful. And no one is doing as you say. We are not anyway.
If you are not doing as I say, then it does not apply and why get upset. Are you going to ban Paul from the NT for using the term "Judaizer" to describe those who are trying to put believers under the Mosaic Law?
Because Gentiles meet every Sabbath with fellow Jewish believers where the Book of the Law is read is why it was said.
That is written 2000 years ago and is no longer required except for the SDA. No one is arguing against meeting on the Sabbath.
And as was stated. None of Ten Commandments are mentioned in Acts 15. And neither is the other laws within the Book of the Law that show us what sin is. Like the laws pertaining to beastiality for instance. So according to the theology you follow none of the Ten or any other of the laws that tell us what sin is matter except for the ones mentioned in Acts 15.
Christ commanded that we love and forgive one another and that we love God beyond all else. As expected, the short letter was not written to address obvious gross transgressions such as bestiality. Dumping the 10 commandments per Acts 15:23-29 (please re-read) does not create a void unless you demand that everyone observe the Sabbath.
 
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