Salvation for Non Christian

[Ligurian]

>>this is to make yourself a judge of God,
This is something u think. God is supreme in compassion, how can he be like that? But human will be.

Is someone knew me in severe pain? Is someone knew me not feeling well ? Is someone listened any even a little ? Human even read bible for century or teach the Bible may not know, but God knows.

I don't understand the people of one religion questioning another religion.

John 14:21 He that has My Commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves Me. And he that loves Me shall be loved by My Father. And I will love him and will manifest myself to him.

 

[BobRyan]

IF fulfilled prophecy means nothing to you...

For the rest of us, then:

I am ok with fulfilled prophecy - but none of it deletes Gal 1:6-9 telling us there is only one Gospel -- not two or a zillion and two, and the in Gal 3:8 that one and only Gospel is said to have been preached to Abraham.

That pretty much seals the deal at that point.

 

[BobRyan]

John 14:21 He that has My Commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves Me. And he that loves Me shall be loved by My Father. And I will love him and will manifest myself to him.

ok - that is the part I do agree with. But it is in the one Gospel preached to Abraham. The one Gospel "preached to us just as it was to them also" Heb 4:2

 

[Ligurian]

I am ok with fulfilled prophecy - but none of it deletes Gal 1:6-9 telling us there is only one Gospel -- not two or a zillion and two, and the in Gal 3:8 that one and only Gospel is said to have been preached to Abraham.

That pretty much seals the deal at that point.

What came first, the chicken or the egg? Were you thinking it was the egg?

 

[Ligurian]

ok - that is the part I do agree with. But it is in the one Gospel preached to Abraham. The one Gospel "preached to us just as it was to them also" Heb 4:2

Genesis 12:1-3 And the Lord said to Abram, Go forth out of thy land and out of thy kindred, and out of the house of thy father, and come into the land which I will shew thee.[2] And I will make thee a great nation, and I will bless thee and magnify thy name, and thou shalt be blessed.[3] And I will bless those that bless thee, and curse those that curse thee, and in thee shall all the tribes of the earth be blessed.

Not good news for those gentiles, either.

 

[BobRyan]

Genesis 12:1-3 And the Lord said to Abram, Go forth out of thy land and out of thy kindred, and out of the house of thy father, and come into the land which I will shew thee.[2] And I will make thee a great nation, and I will bless thee and magnify thy name, and thou shalt be blessed.[3] And I will bless those that bless thee, and curse those that curse thee, and in thee shall all the tribes of the earth be blessed.

Not good news for those gentiles, either.

Jesus said Abraham saw the days of Christ - saw His sacrifice for all mankind in John 8. I believe Him.

Paul says that the same Gospel we have - was preached to Abraham Gal 3:8 -- I believe him.

Peter says that the prophets of old were given our same Gospel -- I believe him.

1 Peter 1:
10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.

you quote Genesis 12 "as if" that is the only info that we have about what they knew about the Gospel - even though NT authors inform us that they knew a great deal more than what we find in Gen 12.

The same is true in Genesis 7 -- where Noah takes clean animals by 7s and unclean by 2's --- yet there is no information at all in the entire book of Genesis as to what a clean animal even is... We only see that in Lev 11 and then we know exactly what was meant in Genesis 7.

 

[littlestar777]

I don't understand the people of one religion questioning another religion.

I thought this is the group thread about? "Exploring Christianity"

 

[Ligurian]

Genesis 12:1-3 And the Lord said to Abram, Go forth out of thy land and out of thy kindred, and out of the house of thy father, and come into the land which I will shew thee.[2] And I will make thee a great nation, and I will bless thee and magnify thy name, and thou shalt be blessed.
[3] And I will bless those that bless thee and curse those that curse thee, and in thee shall all the tribes of the earth be blessed.

Not good news for those gentiles, either.

Jesus said Abraham saw the days of Christ - saw His sacrifice for all mankind in John 8. I believe Him.

Paul says that the same Gospel we have - was preached to Abraham Gal 3:8 -- I believe him.

Peter says that the prophets of old were given our same Gospel -- I believe him.

1 Peter 1:

Which verse in John 8 says Abraham saw Ιησους' sacrifice for all mankind?
Are you reading-in what isn't there? Because I don't think Abraham saw more than this:

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman and between thy seed and her seed, he shall watch against thy head, and thou shalt watch against his heel.LXX

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the Earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Matthew 26:26-28 And as they were eating, Ιησους took bread and blessed it, and brake it and gave it to the Disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is My body.[27] And He took the cup and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it:[28] for this is My blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Your 1 Peter 1 verse is a paraphrase of Matthew 13:16-17... regarding the audience...

As someone here said, there are many verses of good news.
------Obviously, not all good news is good news for all people.

(1) The gospel to the gentiles, the Acts of the Apostles 15:20, 1 Corinthians 15:1-8.
(2) The Gospel of the Kingdom for the 10-tribes, Matthew 5:17-20, Matthew 7:24-25,
Matthew 10:5-7, Matthew 24:14, Revelation 11:15.
(3) Revelation 14:6-7 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the Everlasting Gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation and kindred and tongue and people,[7] Saying with a loud voice, Fear God and give glory to him for the hour of His judgment is come, and worship Him that made heaven and earth and the sea and the fountains of waters.
(4) Exodus 12:21-27 [27] This passover is a sacrifice to the Lord, as He defended the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when He smote the Egyptians, but delivered our houses.LXX
(5) Proverbs 25:25 As cold waters to a thirsty soul, so is good news from a far country.
(6) Isaiah 40:9 O thou that bringest glad tidings to Zion, go up on the high mountain; lift up thy voice with strength, thou that bringest glad tidings to Jerusalem; lift it up, fear not; say unto the cities of Juda, Behold your God!LXX
(7) Isaiah 43:1-4 And now thus saith the Lord God that made thee O Jacob, and formed thee O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name, thou art Mine. ...[4] Since thou becamest precious in My sight, thou hast become glorious, and I have loved thee: and I will give men for thee, and princes for thy life.LXX
(8) Isaiah 52:7 (I am present,) as a season of beauty upon the mountains, as the feet of one preaching glad tidings of peace, as one preaching good news: for I will publish thy salvation, saying, O Sion, thy God shall reign.LXX
(9) Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because he has anointed Me; He has sent me to preach glad tidings to the poor, to heal the broken in heart, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind;LXX
(10) Joel 2:31-32 The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the great and glorious day of the Lord come.[32] And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved: for in mount Sion and in Jerusalem shall the saved one be as the Lord has said, and they that have glad tidings preached to them, whom the Lord has called. Joel 3:1-2.LXX
(11) Jeremiah 20:15 Cursed be the man who brought the glad tidings to my father, saying, A male child is born to thee.LXX

 

[littlestar777]

I don't understand the people of one religion questioning another religion.

John 14:21 He that has My Commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves Me. And he that loves Me shall be loved by My Father. And I will love him and will manifest myself to him.

"Questioning" could be what you think about what i think ?

I would rather "understanding" other people religion and see or focus the good in them as mostly are good ? I do really learn a lot from this. It resolves or neutralize the hatred inside me towards others.

 

[Ligurian]

"Questioning" could be what you think about what i think ?

I would rather "understanding" other people religion and see or focus the good in them as mostly are good ? I do really learn a lot from this. It resolves or neutralize the hatred inside me towards others.

Makes sense.
But who's word do you take regarding a religion that you don't follow?
Get group opinion? Take a poll? Flip a coin? Hope that you guess right?

 

[renniks]

Where are these good non Christian people (Teacher, Volunteer, Fire Fighter, etc) going afterlife without salvation ?

To the grave.

 

[littlestar777]

Makes sense.
But who's word do you take regarding a religion that you don't follow?
Get group opinion? Take a poll? Flip a coin? Hope that you guess right?

I created a thread before and i m still practicing.

Spiritual Intelligence (SQ)

TRUE LEADERSHIP - SQ+EQ+IQ+PQ = SUCCESS

Spiritual Intelligence (SQ)

SQ may be defined as: “The ability to behave with wisdom and compassion, while maintaining inner and outer peace, regardless of the situation.” Wisdom and compassion being the pillars of SQ.

• Deeper understanding of one’s own world view, life purpose, value hierarchy and controlling personal ego to consider the higher self.
• Self-mastery of one’s spiritual growth, living your purpose, values and vision, sustaining faith in and seeking guidance from a higher power.
• Universal awareness of world view of others, limitations and power of human perception, awareness of spiritual laws and transcendental oneness
• Social Mastery/Spiritual Presence: wise and effective mentor of spiritual principles; leadership change agent; making wise and compassionate decisions; and being aligned with the ebb and flow of life.

 

[RileyG]

Where are these good non Christian people (Teacher, Volunteer, Fire Fighter, etc) going afterlife without salvation ?

It's up to God! We cannot know the hearts of others.

 

[RileyG]

dp

 

[littlestar777]

It's up to God! We cannot know the hearts of others.

We can pray to God that good people go to heaven

 

[BobRyan]

Which verse in John 8 says Abraham saw Ιησους' sacrifice for all mankind?
Are you reading-in what isn't there?

I read the entire Bible

Here is John 8 where Christ informs us that Abraham saw Christ's life and mission - His day... not merely an afternoon where Christ merely ate lunch or something of that sort.

John 8: 53 Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; 55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

So then Christ said that Abraham saw the ministry and life of the long promise Messiah.

1 Peter 1 gives that same message (in case we have some slow to believe what John 8 says).

1 Peter 1:
10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.

Heb 4:2 "the gospel was preached to us JUST AS IT WAS TO THEM also"

 

[BobRyan]

Which verse in John 8 says Abraham saw Ιησους' sacrifice for all mankind?
Are you reading-in what isn't there?

I read the entire Bible

Here is John 8 where Christ informs us that Abraham saw Christ's life and mission - His day... not merely an afternoon where Christ merely ate lunch or something of that sort.

John 8: 53 Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; 55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

So then Christ said that Abraham saw the ministry and life of the long promise Messiah.

1 Peter 1 gives that same message (in case we have some slow to believe what John 8 says).

1 Peter 1:
10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.

Heb 4:2 "the gospel was preached to us JUST AS IT WAS TO THEM also"

 

[Ligurian]

I read the entire Bible

Here is John 8 where Christ informs us that Abraham saw Christ's life and mission - His day... not merely an afternoon where Christ merely ate lunch or something of that sort.

John 8: 53 Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; 55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
[...]
1 Peter 1:
10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.

Ιησους day = Esaias 61:1-3 = glad tidings to the poor (Matthew 11:6).

John 8:52-56 Then said the Judaeans unto Him, Now we know that Thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead and the prophets; and Thou sayest, If a man keep My saying, he shall never taste of death.[53] Art Thou greater than our father Abraham which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest Thou Thyself?
[54] Ιησους answered, If I honour Myself, My honour is nothing: it is My Father that honoureth Me, of whom ye say that He is your God:[55] Yet ye have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I should say, I know Him not, I shall be a liar like unto you. But I know Him and keep His saying.[56] Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.

 

[BobRyan]

if your "response" is to simply repost the texts I just posted - then you missed a few texts ...

Here is John 8 where Christ informs us that Abraham saw Christ's life and mission - His day... not merely an afternoon where Christ merely ate lunch or something of that sort.

John 8: 53 Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; 55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

So then Christ said that Abraham saw the ministry and life of the long promise Messiah.

1 Peter 1 gives that same message (in case we have some slow to believe what John 8 says).

1 Peter 1:
10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.

Heb 4:2 "the gospel was preached to us JUST AS IT WAS TO THEM also"

 

[Ligurian]

Ιησους day = Esaias 61:1-3 = glad tidings to the poor (Matthew 11:6).

if your "response" is to simply repost the texts I just posted - then you missed a few texts ...

If you don't accept Isaiah 61:1-3, or Genesis 3:15, then where IS the Old Testament quote for this verse:

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.

Was all of this prophecy, below, already fulfilled in Ιησους' day?

Genesis 17:1-14 And Abram was ninety-nine years old, and the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, I am thy God: be well-pleasing before Me and be blameless,[2] and I will establish My Covenant between Me and thee, and I will multiply thee exceedingly.[3] And Abram fell upon his face, and God spoke to him, saying,[4] And I, behold! My Covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of a multitude of nations.[5] And thy name shall no more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraam, for I have made thee a father of many nations.[6] And I will increase thee very exceedingly, and I will make nations of thee and kings shall come out of thee.[7] And I will establish My Covenant between thee and thy seed after thee to their generations for an Everlasting Covenant, to be thy God and the God of thy seed after thee.LXX

Genesis 28:1-4 And Isaac having called for Jacob, blessed him and charged him, saying, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of the Chananites.[2] Rise and depart quickly into Mesopotamia, to the house of Bathuel the father of thy mother, and take to thyself thence a wife of the daughters of Laban thy mother’s brother.[3] And may my God bless thee, and increase thee and multiply thee, and thou shalt become gatherings of nations.[4] And may He give thee the blessing of my father Abraam, even to thee and to thy seed after thee, to inherit the land of thy sojourning, which God gave to Abraam.LXX

Genesis 28:10-14 And Jacob went forth from the well of the oath, and departed into Charrhan,[11] and came to a certain place and slept there for the sun had gone down; and he took one of the stones of the place and put it at his head and lay down to sleep in that place[12] and dreamed, and behold a ladder fixed on the earth whose top reached to heaven, and the angels of God ascended and descended on it.[13] And the Lord stood upon it, and said, I am the God of thy father Abraam and the God of Isaac: fear not, the land on which thou liest, to thee will I give it and to thy seed.[14] And thy seed shall be as the sand of the earth: and it shall spread abroad to the sea and the south and the north and to the east, and in thee and in thy seed shall all the tribes of the earth be blessed.LXX

What would this mean, in terms of Ιησους Kingdom?