Saturday or Sunday Church?

[Soyeong]

The house of Israel rebelled against God in the wilderness and their disobedience of not walking in God's statues, despising His judgments and greatly defiling His sabbaths were a manifestation of their unbelief.

In Hebrews 3:8-10, we read - Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' Verses 18-19 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Our rest for the body of Christ is not found in keeping the weekly sabbath day under the Mosiac law, but is found in Jesus Christ. Although for centuries the house of Israel had found their physical rest in a day, the new covenant takes the focus off the shadows of the Old Testament signs and rituals and reveals their spiritual substance -- the fulfillment/reality—in the person of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

In 1 Corinthians 10:1-13, we should learn from Israel's example of disobedience as something for us to avoid doing, not as an example for us to emulate. Do you think that we should know God's ways or should we also go astray?

In regard to Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and he was inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not inviting people to come to him for rest by refusing to learn from his example. By Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Mosaic Law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls.

God's law is spiritual in that it has always been intended to teach us deeper spiritual principles of which the listed laws are just examples and which are aspects of God's nature. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that justice, mercy, and faithfulness are weightier matters of the Mosaic Law, so it was intended to teach us how to express these and other aspects of God's nature. God's righteous laws teach us about a spiritual principle of righteousness that leads us to take physical actions that express righteousness in accordance with what God's law instructs, even in situations that God's law does not specifically address. If someone thought that they understood the spiritual principle of love, so they no longer needed to take physical actions that express love, then they would be missing the point, so correctly understanding a spiritual principle will never lead us away from taking physical actions that are examples of that principle, which means that correctly understanding the spiritual principle behind the Sabbath leads us to take actions that are examples of that principle by keeping the 7th day holy.

The Bible contains many important foreshadows that teach us about the nature of God, His plan of redemption, and about what is to come, so if we believe in the truth of these things, then we will testify about it by continuing to observe God's holy days. For example, in 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Christ by drawing the connection of him being our Passover lamb, however, instead of concluding that we no longer need to bother with Passover now that he has come, he concluded by saying that we should therefore continue to keep it. By someone refusing to keep Passover, they are denying the truth about what it teaches us about Jesus. Furthermore, in Colossians 2:16-17, it was written long after the resurrection of Jesus and says that God's holy days are foreshadows of what is to come, so we should still live in a way that testifies about what it come by continuing to keep them rather than a way that bears false witness about what is to come.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Do you know you will be held accountable for what you share?

Why would I not ???

I have found walking with Jesus in the Spirit, obeying the promptings of His Spirit within, leads me in righteousness and good fruit.

This has not come easy but I testify that He wants us to enjoy Him in life and partner in His purposes.

See my testimony here...

Jesus's Ministry

I read nothing at all but scripture for over 5 years while being restored and formed.

So I walk with Him in His seventh day of creation every day in peace.

You can hammer away at Law all you like while I go about the business of walking in His miraculous purpose and seeing beautiful fruit.

Those who really want His blessed life will find it as He is faithful.

I speak from a journey of much blood and tears.

Those who are my judge are in close fellowship - not anonymous voices from cyberspace.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

These verses comes to mind and there is no scripture that says we receive the rest in Christ by our disobedience to His Sabbath commandment, the Sabbath is the door to the rest in Christ and we should not think the warning Paul gives in Hebrews 4 does not apply to us. I imagine the Israelites who disobeyed thought the same thing.

1 John 2: 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

When we obey God it is a testimony to our faith in God, that we trust what He asks of us is for our own God. When we choose to believe that we don’t have to obey what God’s asks, we are believing in our own righteousness and not the righteousness of Christ.

Paul puts it this way:

Romans 6:16 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, those who disobey do not enter into the rest in Christ as the text clearly states. Hebrews 4:6 and there is a Sabbath-keeping for the people of God as the text clearly says.

There are two definitions to that word not just one so let’s see which definition more accurately fits the context
G4520

sabbatismos

1. a keeping sabbath
2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians

A “So there remains a (keeping Sabbath) for the people of God.”

B “So there remains a (blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come) for the people of God.”

Yeah I’m gonna have to go with B on that one.

 

[BobRyan]

So then the law of the Spirit compels you to keep the entire Mosaic law?

The Law of the Spirit is in the moral law of God found in scripture ... so then it would still be a sin for me to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7. The fact that God said it and wrote it in stone is not what makes it ignorable or a candidate to set it aside or something the Holy Spirit would certainly not endorse.

Heb 10 makes it clear that animal sacrifices ended at the cross -- so here again we have it in written code, in scripture and scripture is the direct work of the Holy Spirit..

Heb 7 says that the laws regarding earthly priesthood through the tribe of Levi etc are ended at the cross. -- so here again we have it in written code, in scripture, and scripture is the direct work of the Holy Spirit.

And you probably agree with me here when I say that there is no Bible command saying "obey the Holy Spirit but not scripture, not the Word of God" as if the two are somehow opposed to each other.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The house of Israel rebelled against God in the wilderness and their disobedience of not walking in God's statues, despising His judgments and greatly defiling His sabbaths were a manifestation of their unbelief.

In Hebrews 3:8-10, we read - Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' Verses 18-19 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Our rest for the body of Christ is not found in keeping the weekly sabbath day under the Mosiac law, but is found in Jesus Christ. Although for centuries the house of Israel had found their physical rest in a day, the new covenant takes the focus off the shadows of the Old Testament signs and rituals and reveals their spiritual substance -- the fulfillment/reality—in the person of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

Amen Romans 9 comes to mind on this subject.

“What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:30-33‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[Carl Emerson]

And you probably agree with me here when I say that there is no Bible command saying "obey the Holy Spirit but not scripture, not the Word of God" as if the two are somehow opposed to each other.

What we grapple with is different interpretations of Scripture.

Obeying the Holy Spirit is obeying the Word of God.

Often but not always this comes from reading Scripture.

It is pretty clear that given the strength of argument denominational spirits fuel much of what is presented.

Sadly the Paul/Apollos problem is still very much alive.

If we all were to seek Him rather than traditional thinking, this would soon disappear.

 

[BobRyan]

What we grapple with is different interpretations of Scripture.

No doubt true - as was the case with Christ and the Jews and is the case today with all Christians vs some other Christian denomination that does not share that pov.

Obeying the Holy Spirit is obeying the Word of God.

Indeed it is... but not some non-descript undefined Word of God.

Gal 1:6-9 says "though we (Apostles) or an Angel from heaven should preach to you a different gospel - let him be accursed".

The "test" was against the known doctrine already sustained by "sola scriptura testing" - and no matter how "spirit filled" or "spiritual" or "Holy Spirit ordained" the said Apostle or "Angel in heaven" claimed to be - Paul says they can be tested against scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

Sadly the Paul/Apollos problem is still very much alive.

Neither Paul nor Apollos claimed that "the other guy" was preaching false doctrine when referencing each other. Two pastors or evangelists in the same denomination may happen to have "a following" and in each of their groups some prefer one evangelist over the other. That is what Paul and Apollos were dealing with.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think this is relevant:
Acts 17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who met him.

So Paul goes to the synagogue when it's open, I'm assuming. That would be every Sabbath as well as other holy days. Or maybe in a large city like Athens, it was always open.

Then he goes to the marketplace every day and reasons. If he's going every day, then he's going to the marketplace on the Sabbath as well.

And as far as this passage goes, he's doing the same thing in the marketplace that he did in the synagogue.

He was motivated to share Jesus - he went to where there was an audience. He did not go to worship in the synagogue.

 

[Soyeong]

Amen Romans 9 comes to mind on this subject.

“What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:30-33‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
Romans 9:30-33 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive a | New American Standard Bible - NASB 1995 (NASB1995) | Download The Bible App Now

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing Jesus is the goal of the law. In Romans 9:30-10:4, they Israelites had zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they pursued the law as through righteousness were by works in an effort to establish their own instead of pursuing the law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith referencing Deuteronomy 30:11-16 in regard to saying that god's law is not too difficult to obey, that the one who obeys it will attain life by it, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey when we confess that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Law of the Spirit is in the moral law of God found in scripture ... so then it would still be a sin for me to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7. The fact that God said it and wrote it in stone is not what makes it ignorable or a candidate to set it aside or something the Holy Spirit would certainly not endorse.

Heb 10 makes it clear that animal sacrifices ended at the cross -- so here again we have it in written code, in scripture and scripture is the direct work of the Holy Spirit..

Heb 7 says that the laws regarding earthly priesthood through the tribe of Levi etc are ended at the cross. -- so here again we have it in written code, in scripture, and scripture is the direct work of the Holy Spirit.

And you probably agree with me here when I say that there is no Bible command saying "obey the Holy Spirit but not scripture, not the Word of God" as if the two are somehow opposed to each other.

Hebrews 10 only refers to sin offerings. I’d like to make something perfectly clear. I’m not saying we can do whatever we want. I’m saying that all of the moral commandments in the Old Testament are in the New Testament. If we completely removed the Old Testament from the Bible all of those commandments pertaining to morality are still contained in the New Testament. I am in no way saying that we don’t have to love God, never said we can worship idols, cheat, steal, murder, lie, etc, etc. I believe that all of the commandments we are obligated to keep are contained in the New Testament.

 

[BNR32FAN]

He was motivated to share Jesus - he went to where there was an audience. He did not go to worship in the synagogue.

I would expect that he was probably motivated to do both.

 

[BNR32FAN]

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing Jesus is the goal of the law. In Romans 9:30-10:4, they Israelites had zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they pursued the law as through righteousness were by works in an effort to establish their own instead of pursuing the law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith referencing Deuteronomy 30:11-16 in regard to saying that god's law is not too difficult to obey, that the one who obeys it will attain life by it, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey when we confess that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross.

Amen and He continued in that message to say that those who hear His words and do not act on them are the foolish ones. I don’t recall Him ever telling us to keep the Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There are two definitions to that word not just one so let’s see which definition more accurately fits the context
G4520

sabbatismos

1. a keeping sabbath
2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians

A “So there remains a (keeping Sabbath) for the people of God.”

B “So there remains a (blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come) for the people of God.”

Yeah I’m gonna have to go with B on that one.

Option B sill requires Sabbath-keeping. How do you reconcile verse 10 on what you have to do to enter into that rest?

STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός

σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath);

1. a keeping sabbath.

2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.) - this reconciles with Exodus 31:17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”

I find it very strange how many people go out of their way to avoid the Sabbath scripture. Over 150 scriptures throughout the bible on the Sabbath which is the Holy day of the Lord thy God thus saith the Lord Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13, Mark 2:28 I don't understand how anyone can argue with it to be honest if seeking God's will. Nothing saying the first day was made holy by God, blessed by God or sanctified for holy use by God. No commandment for Sunday-keeping, but there is for Sabbath-keeping spoke by God, written by God's finger. Sunday-keeping doesn't happen in Heaven or the New Earth but Sabbath-keeping remains thus saith the Lord. Isaiah 66:23

Like I said before no amount of scripture seems like it is going to convince you and thats your choice.

 

[Carl Emerson]

No doubt true - as was the case with Christ and the Jews and is the case today with all Christians vs some other Christian denomination that does not share that pov.



Indeed it is... but not some non-descript undefined Word of God.

Gal 1:6-9 says "though we (Apostles) or an Angel from heaven should preach to you a different gospel - let him be accursed".

The "test" was against the known doctrine already sustained by "sola scriptura testing" - and no matter how "spirit filled" or "spiritual" or "Holy Spirit ordained" the said Apostle or "Angel in heaven" claimed to be - Paul says they can be tested against scripture.

Every denomination has a different test...

 

[Carl Emerson]

I would expect that he was probably motivated to do both.

He worshiped with believers...

 

[Soyeong]

Amen and He continued in that message to say that those who hear His words and do not act on them are the foolish ones. I don’t recall Him ever telling us to keep the Sabbath.

The law that Romans 9:30-10:16 is referring to is inclusive of the Sabbath.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Like I said before no amount of scripture seems like it is going to convince you.

Scripture and the power of argument leads down all sorts of Rabbit holes...

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Scripture and the power of argument leads down all sorts of Rabbit holes...

Thats why we can only believe the Word of God.

If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 said Jesus
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3 said John
Showing mercy to thousands who love Me and keep My commandments. Exodus 20:6 said God

Your argument is not with me.