Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]

[guevaraj]

Hi Gorge, I wonder why some are so fixated on the old covenant Sabbath that was given only to Israel that it becomes their main topic?

Brother, the message of the Sabbath in Hebrews 3 and 4 builds up our "faith" in God's word.

Why is it we all are not writing about what Jesus did for all of humanity and what He wants us to do to for all humanity. Jesus never told one soul to keep the Sabbath. He never rebuked one soul for not observing the Sabbath. Jesus' apostles didn't teach Sabbath keeping to the gentiles. Jesus is all about love. He healed the sick, made the lame to walk again and even raised the dead and His greatest act of love is when He allowed Himself to be crucified on the cross for the sins of all mankind. Love, not Sabbath, is the great theme of the Bible.

We are only forgiven when we turn to Jesus as our High Priest in a cycle of forgiveness to perfection: like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls. The commandments that some mistakenly think cannot be kept. Paul learned to keep them from a young age, following the cycle of forgiveness to the point where he could boast of his righteousness based on law. If Paul could keep the Ten Commandments with the slow forgiveness cycle of animal sacrifices, we could certainly keep the "surpassing" Eleven Commandments of the new covenant with the faster forgiveness cycle of Jesus as our High Priest.

as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless. (Philippians 3:6 NIV)​

Not keeping the Sabbath will not keep anyone from eternal life, but not loving as Jesus taught us certainly will.

Not keeping the true Sabbath will not prepare you for the return of Jesus. It will not give you the "faith" in the word of God that following the true Sabbath gives me. Can you afford to skip the "faith" building message of Hebrews 3 and 4?

Faith shows the reality of what we hope for; it is the evidence of things we cannot see. Through their faith, the people in days of old earned a good reputation. By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God’s command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen. It was by faith that Abel brought a more acceptable offering to God than Cain did. Abel’s offering gave evidence that he was a righteous man, and God showed his approval of his gifts. Although Abel is long dead, he still speaks to us by his example of faith. (Hebrews 11:1-4 NLT)​

Worship corporately and day you deem appropriate and allow those who worship corporately at some other time the same privilege. That is really an act of love.

That will not strengthen your "faith" to last to the return of Jesus when life becomes difficult as it has for the people of Ukraine. Can you afford to skip the message of "faith" in the word of God found in Hebrews 3 and 4? We need to benefit from every "faith" building message that our God has provided in His word.

“But while they were gone to buy oil, the bridegroom came. Then those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was locked. Later, when the other five bridesmaids returned, they stood outside, calling, ‘Lord! Lord! Open the door for us!’ “But he called back, ‘Believe me, I don’t know you!’ "So you, too, must keep watch! For you do not know the day or hour of my return. (Matthew 25:10-13 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Icyspark]

Hi Gorge, I wonder why some are so fixated on the old covenant Sabbath that was given only to Israel that it becomes their main topic? Why is it we all are not writing about what Jesus did for all of humanity and what He wants us to do to for all humanity. Jesus never told one soul to keep the Sabbath. He never rebuked one soul for not observing the Sabbath. Jesus' apostles didn't teach Sabbath keeping to the gentiles. Jesus is all about love. He healed the sick, made the lame to walk again and even raised the dead and His greatest act of love is when He allowed Himself to be crucified on the cross for the sins of all mankind. Love, not Sabbath, is the great theme of the Bible. Not keeping the Sabbath will not keep anyone from eternal life, but not loving as Jesus taught us certainly will.

Worship corporately and day you deem appropriate and allow those who worship corporately at some other time the same privilege. That is really an act of love.

Hi Bob S,

It seems to me that you're the one "fixated" on what you deem "the old covenant Sabbath." And there you go again with your adding to the Scriptures which the Bible says not to do. But hey, love is all that matters right? So you can feel free to reject what you're told not to do and you can add and subtract from the Bible at your leisure. Your position sounds a lot like you're elevating your personal opinions above the Word of God.

So why is it that you "fixate" on the Sabbath issue and don't spend your time doing those things you're admonishing others that they should be doing? Icy that your posts tend to hover around Sabbath discussions. That sounds pretty hypocritical don'tcha think?

What Jesus taught about love goes back to what I've alluded to above (i.e. the adding and subtracting from Scripture to make it suit a post modern belief system). Your position doesn't embrace Jesus's position. Jesus explicitly ties love to keeping His commandments. Your position here is redactive and attempts to strip the obedience aspect of love. People can acknowledge all sorts of things but their obedience testifies to whether they actually believe what they claim.

Jesus plainly declares that the Sabbath was made for "human beings" (anthropos). You again slip back into redactive mode and strip what Jesus says and then you return to additive mode and insert your own preconceived idea that the Sabbath was made for the Jews. Jews weren't around when the Sabbath was instituted on the seventh day of creation. Can you acknowledge what Jesus says about the Sabbath being made for human beings (anthropos)? Or will you stick to your private, subtractive/additive version of what He said (see below) and insist that it was actually only made for the Jew?

Mark 2:27
The Sabbath was made for the needs of human beings [the JEW--additive], and not the other way around.​

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[BABerean2]

Brother, the Sabbath is still unknown to most Christians.

Based on Colossians 2:16-17 the Sabbath day was only a "shadow" of Christ.

We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.

Some of us cannot let go of Mount Sinai.

The battle between the two covenants has been going on since Acts chapter 15.

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[guevaraj]

Based on Colossians 2:16-17 the Sabbath day was only a "shadow" of Christ.

Brother, read on and you will see that Paul is talking about human rules and not God's rules.

You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as, “Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”? Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them. These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires. (Colossians 2:20-23 NLT)​

We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.

Mount Sinai represents the earthly temple "copy" of the true temple in Heaven. Mount Zion represents the true temple in heaven where Jesus forgives our sins, as our High Priest, to give us as many opportunities as we need to grow in obedience to the "surpassing" Eleven Commandments of the new covenant.

Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)​

Some of us cannot let go of Mount Sinai. The battle between the two covenants has been going on since Acts chapter 15.

Most Christians know nothing about the "daily" provision for the forgiveness of our sins in Jesus as our High Priest from Mount Zion because of the Bishops of Rome bringing down to earth the worship do Jesus in Heaven. This "daily" offered to Jesus in heaven was cast down to earth by the bishops of Rome in the confessional, who were also the ones who "destroyed His temple" in AD 70. The word in square brackets after the word "daily", was added to the Septuagint Hebrew to Greek translation. The translators, thinking they were helping, when Jesus' "daily" forgiveness does not cause Him to die over and over again, like the death of so many animal sacrifices in the stand-in earthly temple "copy" before Jesus' death. Jesus' death validates all the forgiveness prior and subsequent to His death.

It even challenged the Commander of heaven’s army by canceling the daily [sacrifices] offered to him and by destroying his Temple. The army of heaven was restrained from responding to this rebellion. So the daily sacrifice was halted, and truth was overthrown. The horn succeeded in everything it did. Then I heard two holy ones talking to each other. One of them asked, “How long will the events of this vision last? How long will the rebellion that causes desecration stop the daily [sacrifices]? How long will the Temple and heaven’s army be trampled on?” (Daniel 8:11-13 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob S,

It seems to me that you're the one "fixated" on what you deem "the old covenant Sabbath."

Well now, sometimes what one seems to believe is only imagination. It is not what I deem it is what the Holy Writ has revealed to those who are not fixated on keeping a day that was meant for only those chosen by God to inherit the promised land. The chosen were the ones that agreed to observe all the laws God put before them. They were the ones that couldn't keep the requirements even when God gave them many chances. Finally, when it became very clear that those chosen would never keep what they promised God had to annul the agreement. When an agreement is annulled there remains no promise and the rules are no longer binding on the ones once chosen. So, what you believe is still binding is not. According to the Holy Writ a new agreement is now here for not only the once chosen, but for all mankind.

The fixation you pin on me is not what you "seem". My fixation is doing what Jesus taught the disciples and then go out and teach the "Good News" to all nations. The Good News is we are not saved by keeping the agreement given to the chosen, we are saved by believing the one God sent to us and loving others as He loves us. Paul wrote that we are not saved by the works of the Laws given to the chosen. We are saved by our faith just as Abraham was saved. Because some believe they have to keep the special day given only to the chosen in order to be saved, they are not in harmony with what is written in the Holy Writ and trust writings from other sources. A good example is the following:

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

The good news is that statement is not true. It is not what we do, it is what Jesus has done for us.

And there you go again with your adding to the Scriptures which the Bible says not to do.

Educate me spark. Just where have I added to scripture? Why do you make statements you deny the reader to know what you are writing about?

But hey, love is all that matters right?

Are you making light of the greatest command ever given to man? I write about love the same as did the Bible writers. Love is the greatest theme in all of God's Word to mankind. I write about love and you write about the Sabbath that Paul wrote is but a shadow.

So you can feel free to reject what you're told not to do and you can add and subtract from the Bible at your leisure. Your position sounds a lot like you're elevating your personal opinions above the Word of God.

Wow! you certainly know how to hurt a guy. If what you wrote is true, why is it you will not reveal where I have done this terrible atrocity.

So why is it that you "fixate" on the Sabbath issue and don't spend your time doing those things you're admonishing others that they should be doing?

Just how do you know the things you write about me that I am supposedly not doing? Yes, I would like for you to see the real truth about keeping a day that is not meant for anyone to keep. the new covenant does not teach keeping days. We are living under the laws of the new covenant and not under the laws of the one given only to the chosen. It is hoped that you are not the only one reading our posts and it is a great opportunity to be able to tell others the Good News that we are not under the old covenant Laws. Jesus has freed the Jews from the ministry that brought death, the ten commandments with its ritual Sabbath requirement. Gentiles were never under those requirements and it is my privilege to refute that some teach we are required to observe days.

Icy that your posts tend to hover around Sabbath discussions. That sounds pretty hypocritical don'tcha think?

Please explain why it is wrong for me to enlighten people with a different view. Is it "hypocritical" for you and your church to spread your beliefs in the ways you do?

What Jesus taught about love goes back to what I've alluded to above (i.e. the adding and subtracting from Scripture to make it suit a post modern belief system). Your position doesn't embrace Jesus's position. Jesus explicitly ties love to keeping His commandments.

Now that really does make me chuckle spark. Jesus' commandment is to love. The admonition of all the Bible writers is to love. Not one of them admonishes us to have to keep a day.

Jude1:20
But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

Gal 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

1Cor13:1
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

1Peter4:7
The end of all things is near. Therefore be alert and of sober mind so that you may pray. 8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

Your position here is redactive and attempts to strip the obedience aspect of love. People can acknowledge all sorts of things but their obedience testifies to whether they actually believe what they claim.

Obedience to what spark? Is it your fixation on keeping a day that was never given to any except Israel? Why is it you are not obedient to one ritual law and not all the other laws given only to Israel? Who has given you the privilege to exclude keeping the feasts, new moons, cutting your sideburns and all the other laws that would pertain to a practicing Israelite?

Jesus plainly declares that the Sabbath was made for "human beings" (anthropos). You again slip back into redactive mode and strip what Jesus says and then you return to additive mode and insert your own preconceived idea that the Sabbath was made for the Jews. Jews weren't around when the Sabbath was instituted on the seventh day of creation. Can you acknowledge what Jesus says about the Sabbath being made for human beings (anthropos)? Or will you stick to your private, subtractive/additive version of what He said (see below) and insist that it was actually only made for the Jew?

Mark 2:27
The Sabbath was made for the needs of human beings [the JEW--additive], and not the other way around.​

That is what Jesus said and I believe Him. It WAS made for man. Man desecrated it and it became a death sentence. 2Cor3:7. Paul went on to tell us it WAS only a temporary guide for Israel and now we are guided by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Hebrews tells us about today. Heb4:
7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

Please do not tell us those passages are referring to keeping the weekly Sabbath. The writer was writing to Jews that were, for hundreds of years, observing the weekly Sabbath. Today we can enter His Rest. His invitation is: “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. Matt11:27-28

 

[Bob S]

By the way spark, I did answer the questions you asked in post #935. My answers to all of your post are found in post #937

 

[BABerean2]

The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.”

Anyone who believes the young man told the truth above rejects the rest of the New Testament.


Rom_5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—


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[guevaraj]

Anyone who believes the young man told the truth above rejects the rest of the New Testament. Rom_5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Brother, Jesus believed him! Jesus did not question his fulfillment of the past "glory" of the Ten Commandments, but rather challenged him further with one "more" commandment: following Jesus' example in the Eleventh Commandment of the "more" glorious new covenant. A new commandment not possible before Jesus!

Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)​

The "more" glorious new covenant with the additional Eleventh Commandment above and not fewer commandments is confirmed below, where "more" and not less is expected from Jesus' faster cycle of forgiveness from mount Zion in the true heavenly temple than the slow cycle of forgiveness in the earthly "copy" of Mount Sinai with the stand-in for Jesus' forgiveness as our High Priest through many animal sacrifices.

The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away (from Moses face). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life? If the old way, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God! In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever! (2 Corinthians 3:7-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

Brother, Jesus believed him!

If Jesus believed the young man, it would mean Paul was wrong in Romans 5:12.


Do you believe Paul was wrong?

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[guevaraj]

If Jesus believed the young man, it would mean Paul was wrong in Romans 5:12. Do you believe Paul was wrong?

Brother, Paul, says that he too lived in "triumph over sin" based on the law because of the many chances to remove past sins through animal sacrifices until you sin no more. Practice makes perfect! The Jews practiced obedience to the Ten Commandments "daily" from their youth. Imagine how encouraged Paul was at sharing Jesus' faster cycle of forgiveness rather than the slower animal sacrifices to help the worst of sinners quickly "triumph over sin" in the "overwhelming glory" of following Jesus in the Eleventh Commandment of the new covenant.

When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break. Still, everyone died—from the time of Adam to the time of Moses—even those who did not disobey an explicit commandment of God, as Adam did. Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come. But there is a great difference between Adam’s sin and God’s gracious gift. For the sin of this one man, Adam, brought death to many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of forgiveness to many through this other man, Jesus Christ. And the result of God’s gracious gift is very different from the result of that one man’s sin. For Adam’s sin led to condemnation, but God’s free gift leads to our being made right with God, even though we are guilty of many sins. For the sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of righteousness, for all who receive it will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ. (Romans 5:12-17 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

Brother, Paul, says that he too lived in "triumph over sin" based on the law because of the many chances to remove past sins through animal sacrifices until you sin no more.

Paul did not live in triumph over sin when he stood as Saul the Pharisee holding the coats of those who stoned Stephen.

Animal sacrifices never removed any past sin. They were a mere shadow of the sacrifice of God's Son.

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[guevaraj]

Paul did not live in triumph over sin when he stood as Saul the Pharisee holding the coats of those who stoned Stephen.

Brother, Paul was following the law: "armed with the authority and commission of the leading priests" as instructed in the following passage.

“When you go out to fight your enemies and you face horses and chariots and an army greater than your own, do not be afraid. The LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, is with you! When you prepare for battle, the priest must come forward to speak to the troops. He will say to them, ‘Listen to me, all you men of Israel! Do not be afraid as you go out to fight your enemies today! Do not lose heart or panic or tremble before them. For the LORD your God is going with you! He will fight for you against your enemies, and he will give you victory!’ (Deuteronomy 20:1-4 NLT)​

The instructions above were carried out below.

One day I was on such a mission to Damascus, armed with the authority and commission of the leading priests. About noon, Your Majesty, as I was on the road, a light from heaven brighter than the sun shone down on me and my companions. We all fell down, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is useless for you to fight against my will.’ “‘Who are you, lord?’ I asked. “And the Lord replied, ‘I am Jesus, the one you are persecuting. Now get to your feet! For I have appeared to you to appoint you as my servant and witness. Tell people that you have seen me, and tell them what I will show you in the future. And I will rescue you from both your own people and the Gentiles. Yes, I am sending you to the Gentiles to open their eyes, so they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. Then they will receive forgiveness for their sins and be given a place among God’s people, who are set apart by faith in me.’ (Acts 26:12-18 NLT)​

This is why Paul can say that he was "faultless", as he tells us in the following passage, in keeping with the law, including the Ten Commandments.

as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless. (Philippians 3:6 NIV)​

Animal sacrifices never removed any past sin. They were a mere shadow of the sacrifice of God's Son.

They were forgiven through animal sacrifices before the death of Jesus, without Jesus having to "die again and again", "since the world began". Jesus can forgive many times even though He only dies once! He can forgive before He dies, as said in the following passage.

On that day offerings of purification will be made for you, and you will be purified in the LORD’s presence from all your sins. (Leviticus 16:30 NLT)​

Jesus forgave sins before His death above and confirmed below without having to "die again and again" "since the world began". A single death by Jesus validates all the times He forgave and forgives sins before and after His death as our High Priest in the true heavenly temple.

For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf. And he did not enter heaven to offer himself again and again, like the high priest here on earth who enters the Most Holy Place year after year with the blood of an animal. If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice. (Hebrews 9:24-26 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

Brother, Paul was following the law: "armed with the authority and commission of the leading priests" as instructed in the following passage.

Do you believe Saul of Tarsus was following the instructions of God when he held the coats of those who were stoning Stephen?


What did the author of the Book of Hebrews say below?

Heb_10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


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[guevaraj]

Do you believe Saul of Tarsus was following the instructions of God when he held the coats of those who were stoning Stephen?

Brother, yes! Paul was doing God's will, "armed with the authority and commission of the leading priests."

“When you go out to fight your enemies and you face horses and chariots and an army greater than your own, do not be afraid. The LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, is with you! When you prepare for battle, the priest must come forward to speak to the troops. He will say to them, ‘Listen to me, all you men of Israel! Do not be afraid as you go out to fight your enemies today! Do not lose heart or panic or tremble before them. For the LORD your God is going with you! He will fight for you against your enemies, and he will give you victory!’ (Deuteronomy 20:1-4 NLT)​

What did the author of the Book of Hebrews say below? Heb_10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

They were forgiven because they obeyed God's provision for the forgiveness of past sins with the stand-in animal sacrifices seeking Jesus' forgiveness as our High Priest. They, however, did not need to wait for Jesus' future death to be forgiven because the passage says they were forgiven on that day, way before the future death of Jesus.

On that day offerings of purification will be made for you, and you will be purified in the LORD’s presence from all your sins. (Leviticus 16:30 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

Brother, yes! Paul was doing God's will, "armed with the authority and commission of the leading priests."

Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.


The will of the Father and the will of the Son cannot be different.

Your leading priests are found in verse 44 below.

You Are of Your Father the Devil

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


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[guevaraj]

Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. The will of the Father and the will of the Son cannot be different.

Brother, Paul is overpowered by Jesus! Jesus does not say that Paul has done anything wrong, but that he will not be able to defeat the will of Jesus. Paul is wasting his energy against a higher being that he cannot defeat. This convinces Paul that he is dealing with God, being the most powerful being known to Paul. Since Paul is on a mission from God, he cannot be stopped by anyone but God, because there is no being more powerful than God.

“When you go out to fight your enemies and you face horses and chariots and an army greater than your own, do not be afraid. The LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, is with you! When you prepare for battle, the priest must come forward to speak to the troops. He will say to them, ‘Listen to me, all you men of Israel! Do not be afraid as you go out to fight your enemies today! Do not lose heart or panic or tremble before them. For the LORD your God is going with you! He will fight for you against your enemies, and he will give you victory!’ (Deuteronomy 20:1-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

Your leading priests are found in verse 44 below. You Are of Your Father the Devil Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Brother, happy Sabbath! Not all religious leaders were against Jesus!

There was a man named Nicodemus, a Jewish religious leader who was a Pharisee. After dark one evening, he came to speak with Jesus. “Rabbi,” he said, “we all know that God has sent you to teach us. Your miraculous signs are evidence that God is with you.” (John 3:1-2 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

Brother, happy Sabbath! Not all religious leaders were against Jesus!

There was a man named Nicodemus, a Jewish religious leader who was a Pharisee. After dark one evening, he came to speak with Jesus. “Rabbi,” he said, “we all know that God has sent you to teach us. Your miraculous signs are evidence that God is with you.” (John 3:1-2 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Are you saying Nicodemus sent Saul of Tarsus out to persecute the Church of Jesus Christ?


Act 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
Act 22:20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.


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[guevaraj]

Are you saying Nicodemus sent Saul of Tarsus out to persecute the Church of Jesus Christ?

Brother, I think Nicodemus would have agreed with the sentiment of Gamaliel's advice in the following passage.

“So my advice is, leave these men alone. Let them go. If they are planning and doing these things merely on their own, it will soon be overthrown. But if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God!” The others accepted his advice. They called in the apostles and had them flogged. Then they ordered them never again to speak in the name of Jesus, and they let them go. The apostles left the high council rejoicing that God had counted them worthy to suffer disgrace for the name of Jesus. And every day, in the Temple and from house to house, they continued to teach and preach this message: “Jesus is the Messiah.” (Acts 5:38-42 NLT)​

Act 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee: Act 22:20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.

Paul is not passive! He did not know then he was "fighting against God"!

“So my advice is, leave these men alone. Let them go. If they are planning and doing these things merely on their own, it will soon be overthrown. But if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God!” The others accepted his advice. They called in the apostles and had them flogged. Then they ordered them never again to speak in the name of Jesus, and they let them go. The apostles left the high council rejoicing that God had counted them worthy to suffer disgrace for the name of Jesus. And every day, in the Temple and from house to house, they continued to teach and preach this message: “Jesus is the Messiah.” (Acts 5:38-42 NLT)​

Paul would disagree with Gamaliel's passive counsel in his active zeal to fight the perceived enemies of God's truth.

as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless. (Philippians 3:6 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

Paul is not passive! He did not know then he was "fighting against God"!

All that matters is Saul was fighting against God, which means he was in sin against God and His Son.


Act 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
Act 22:20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.

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