The duration of hell and its purpose

[Der Alte]

Sorry, with all due respect I believe the analogy you are using is bad. Do you believe Jesus is God? If yes, then if you believe He can raise the dead, heal the blind, etc. Why would it be incomprehensible to believe He can cure the unrighteous?
Using your reasoning because Human doctors can not cure all disease therefore God can not cure all disease.^^^ The statement above is incorrect. God will cure the disease spread by Satan, and the first Adam. Romans 5:15. God will reform those in the fire. [scripture omitted]

"Why would it be incomprehensible to believe He can cure the unrighteous?"
Not uncomprehensible at all. But according to your reasoning He does this after they have been in the fire for some period. If God is ultimately going to save all mankind is He going to somehow MAKE them love Him after the fire, why doesn't He do it before the fire?
Most people who are punished in this life don't come out of prison loving the people who put them there.
"God will reform those in the fire." Scripture? Did God reform the thousands of inhabitants of Sodom, Gomorrah and the cities of the plains when he saved Lot and his family?

 

[wendykvw]

"Why would it be incomprehensible to believe He can cure the unrighteous?"
Not uncomprehensible at all. But according to your reasoning He does this after they have been in the fire for some period. If God is ultimately going to save all mankind is He going to somehow MAKE them love Him after the fire, why doesn't He do it before the fire?
Most people who are punished in this life don't come out of prison loving the people who put them there.
"God will reform those in the fire." Scripture? Did God reform the thousands of inhabitants of Sodom, Gomorrah and the cities of the plains when he saved Lot and his family?

God is not human, He is capable of restoring those He created, yes, even Sodom.
“For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.” Acts 3:21

of all things,
πάντων (pantōn)
Adjective - Genitive Neuter Plural
Strong's 3956: All, the whole, every kind of. Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole.

People reject God here and now for various reasons, A pastor may have sexually abused them, or someone in authority. We don’t know all the reasons, many by no fault of their own reject God because of a poor reflection they may have learned from those in authority over them. Or they may have been raised in a culture of another religion that enforced incorrect information on the true living God. In any such case, God who is full of mercy will reveal Himself at death or after, and like Paul they will experience the true living God who will heal them of their ignorance or lack of knowledge.

True story, back in my days as a Southern Baptist I crossed paths with a atheist women who was set against Christianity. She mocked God on a daily basis and my desire was to set her straight, and provide her scriptures. We would go back and forth. One day as I was praying without a doubt God instructed me to stop pushing scripture on her, I was confused and asked why? The answer I received from God was that I was pushing her farther away from Him. This of course was not my intention, He then instructed me
To just love her where she was at, and then I also became aware that she was molested by her father who was a Pastor. We like to think of things as black and white thinking it is so clear who God will redeem, when it comes to situations like this women. It became clear to me that God loved this women, and knew her painful past and her judgment would include this horrific trauma she experienced. This type of judgment is also part of our justice system. When A human judge is sentencing a criminal the judge will take into consideration what wrong have may have shaped the criminal. It is called virtue of mercy.

 

[ozso]

I have yet for anybody to explain to me how the unrighteous after they are thrown into fiery punishment for some period of time emerge from that punishment loving and serving God?
The prison recidivism in the US is about 60%. That is out of every 100 prisoners released from prison about 60 are not rehabilitated, they return to prison. But supposedly among the unrighteous who are sentenced to hell there is a 100% rehabilitation rate. Why this gret disparity? I can't find any scrfipture which directly supports this.

I'm pretty sure you can find scripture regarding God's all-powerful ability to heal, reform and restore.

 

[Der Alte]

@wendykvw

I'm pretty sure you can find scripture regarding God's all-powerful ability to heal, reform and restore.

That ain't the question amigo! Read my post again maybe you can figure it out. But I doubt it so see if you can follow along here.
A. People reject God in life, B. They live in sin, C. They die. D. they are sent to fiery punishment. E. God, heals, reforms, restores them.
What is the purpose of the punishment D.? It can't be correction if God heals reforms and restores afterward. Since most prisoners in the US are not corrected during punishment most sinners would not be corrected by punishment. Unless. So what is the purpose of the punishment?

 

[ozso]

That ain't the question amigo! Read my post again maybe you can figure it out.

Your question involved an inapplicable scenario, so I provided an applicable answer to set it straight.

 

[ozso]

I have yet for anybody to explain to me how the unrighteous after they are thrown into fiery punishment for some period of time emerge from that punishment loving and serving God?
The prison recidivism in the US is about 60%. That is out of every 100 prisoners released from prison about 60 are not rehabilitated, they return to prison. But supposedly among the unrighteous who are sentenced to hell there is a 100% rehabilitation rate. Why this gret disparity? I can't find any scrfipture which directly supports this.

I'll answer this again in a way that will hopefully be more clear to you. The US penal system doesn't have God's all-powerful ability to heal, reform and restore. That's why God can succeed where man fails. There is a lot of scripture about God being able to do what's impossible for mankind to achieve.

The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?”

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.” Mark 10:26-27

 

[Der Alte]

I'll answer this again in a way that will hopefully be more clear to you. The US penal system doesn't have God's all-powerful ability to heal, reform and restore. That's why God can succeed where man fails. There is a lot of scripture about God being able to do what's impossible for mankind to achieve.
The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?”
Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.” Mark 10:26-27

When does this healing, reforming, restoring occur? Before, during or after the punishment?
Watch out for the gotcha!

 

[ozso]

Watch out for the gotcha!

So noted.

 

[wendykvw]

@wendykvw

That ain't the question amigo! Read my post again maybe you can figure it out. But I doubt it so see if you can follow along here.
A. People reject God in life, B. They live in sin, C. They die. D. they are sent to fiery punishment. E. God, heals, reforms, restores them.
What is the purpose of the punishment D.? It can't be correction if God heals reforms and restores afterward. Since most prisoners in the US are not corrected during punishment most sinners would not be corrected by punishment. Unless. So what is the purpose of the punishment?

Restorative Justice is based on healing our minds, body and soul. It is not based on retribution. Our own Justice system has the same program. The intent is to heal both parties, the victims and the criminal.

 

[ozso]

When does this healing, reforming, restoring occur? Before, during or after the punishment?

During. As a part of. The purpose of and the reason for.

Watch out for the gotcha!

Why did you hide this part of your post? Does it mean that you're full of gotchas?
Gotcha definition: an instance of publicly tricking someone or exposing them to ridicule, especially by means of an elaborate deception.

 

[wendykvw]

When does this healing, reforming, restoring occur? Before, during or after the punishment?
Watch out for the gotcha!

For some during their lifetime here on earth. For others it may be after this life. God is God of both the living and the dead.

 

[ozso]

What I see a lot of regarding hell being a place of restoration, are a lot strawman arguments.

If hell is full of agonizing flames and demons stabbing with pitchforks, then how can it be restorative? If God tortures people for a period of time, how are they going to come out of that loving him?

Obviously if hell is a place of restoration then scenarios that are counter-productive to restoration are inapplicable.

 

[Neogaia777]

What they choose will be always what they will choose and be always, and no amount of time spent anywhere elsewhere will ever make them choose or be otherwise, because they are unable to choose otherwise, because of the way they were made by God the Father, and some were made to never choose to love Him, so they go to a place where that forever burns them, and always eats/knaws at them, and torments/tortures them forever, etc...

They are not entirely conscious of this each and every single time however...

And in fact, the only ones who are ever conscious of this ever at all ever, are only the believers that will be in heaven after that forever, etc...

God Bless!

 

[eleos1954]

Force will not be needed. It will be willingly.

It's a choice, not all will choose.

 

[FineLinen]

It's a choice, not all will choose.

Eleos: Au contraire!

The Master of reconciliation will draw how many unto Himself?

ALL

Draw = helkuo =
Draw off in power.
Drag off in power.
Impel in power.

Helkuo is a strong word which means to tug, draw, or compel, and is found 6 times in the New Testament. In each usage, whatever was drawn came; there is never a suggestion or hint that whatever was drawn was not accomplished. It is used in John 18:10 of drawing a sword, John 21:6 and 11 of hauling/drawing a net full of fish, and Acts 16:19, of Paul and Silas being dragged into the marketplace. In John 12:32, Jesus said, And I, if I am lifted up, will draw all men to Myself.

 

[wendykvw]

It's a choice, not all will choose.

What you are really saying is salvation is all based on human will and human will is an obstacle for God. Scripture does not support this conclusion.

 

[FineLinen]

Yup, the Master accomplishes His work in EVERY life ultimately.

In each usage, whatever was drawn came; there is never a suggestion or hint that whatever was drawn was not accomplished.

Jesus Christ loses nothing: not remnants of miracle fish and bread & certainly not broken sinners!

 

[FineLinen]

It's a choice, not all will choose.

My dear lady: What does it mean to be in Christ?

You were given grace before the world was created. -2 Tim. 1:9

You were chosen before the world was created. -Eph. 1:4

You were loved by God with a love that is inseparable. -Rom. 8:38,39

You were forgiven for all your sins. -Eph. 1:7

You were justified before God & the righteousness of God is imputed to you. -2 Cor. 5:4

You have become a new creation. -2 Cor. 5:17

"In/en the Name of Jesus every knee shall bow & tongue confess, You are Lord to the glory of God the Father. -Phil. 2:10

In = en

How deep is the confession?

The heavens. The earth. The underworld.

Not perfunctory genuflections ! !

να ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ πᾶν γόνυ κάμψῃ ἐπουρανίων καὶ ἐπιγείων καὶ καταχθονίων

 

[Neogaia777]

Yup, the Master accomplishes His work in EVERY life ultimately.

In each usage, whatever was drawn came; there is never a suggestion or hint that whatever was drawn was not accomplished.

Jesus Christ loses nothing: not remnants of miracle fish and bread & certainly not broken sinners!

But what is He drawing all men to himself for...? Or what is to be/have been done/accomplished with them after that, etc...? Because that is the question, etc... Because there is no one scripture that specifically says that "all men/people will be saved" or that "all will all ultimately go or get into heaven ultimately", but there are some (plenty) of pretty clear ones (scriptures) that actually say quite the opposite actually, and talk about a coming sorting work, and/or judgement that will either put one in either one place or the other, etc, and that also seems to indicate that it will be "final" and there will be no going back at some point along the way of it also, etc...

Not trying to be a killjoy here, but am just trying to speak what is the hard and difficult truths for some who have not been able to fully reconcile them yet, etc...

God Bless!

 

[wendykvw]

What I see a lot of regarding hell being a place of restoration, are a lot strawman arguments.

If hell is full of agonizing flames and demons stabbing with pitchforks, then how can it be restorative? If God tortures people for a period of time, how are they going to come out of that loving him?

Obviously if hell is a place of restoration then scenarios that are counter-productive to restoration are inapplicable.

Hell is not retributive

What I see a lot of regarding hell being a place of restoration, are a lot strawman arguments.

If hell is full of agonizing flames and demons stabbing with pitchforks, then how can it be restorative? If God tortures people for a period of time, how are they going to come out of that loving him?

Obviously if hell is a place of restoration then scenarios that are counter-productive to restoration are inapplicable.

I'm sorry you have that conclusion. The fire represents God, not torture or a literal fire like a fireplace. God is not torturing anyone, however, we will have full knowledge of how our life and actions impacted other people and it could be painful to experience.

It can be difficult for human beings to comprehend how God transforms the fallen nature, just as we do not know how He cures the blind or cures the lame, or raises the dead? Do we know how He does these things?

"But our belief is that the Word shall prevail over the entire rational creation, and change every soul
Into his own perfection; in which will choose what he desires, and obtain what he chooses. For athough in the diseases and wounds of the body, there are some which no medical skill can cure,yet we hold that in the mind there is no evil so strong that it may not be overcome by the Supreme
Word and God. For stronger than all the evils in the soul is the Word and the healing power that dwells in him; and this healing He applies, according to the will of God, to everyman. The
Consummation of all things is the destruction of evil."

-Origen