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Overturning Roe vs. Wade & Implications for Adventism

SavedSinner777

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It's a common misconception perpetuated by the left and the mainstream media that overturning Roe would lead to an automatic, national ban on abortion. What would really happen is that individual states would have the right to form their own abortion laws, as they did before the Roe decision.

Pro-life Adventists who support the overturning of Roe are not, whether wittingly or unwittingly, hastening the national Sunday law. In fact, Adventist pioneers supported laws against abortion in their own time:

EARLY ABORTION VIEWS
The June 25, 1867, Advent Review and Sabbath Herald contained what apparently was the first statement on abortion to appear in Adventist literature. In an article titled "Fashionable Murder," the author, John Todd, praised the work of the Physicians' Crusade—a late nineteenth-century movement against abortion, which had been widely practiced in America during the early part of that century.

Speaking of abortion, Todd declared, "The willful killing of a human being at any stage of its existence is murder."4

The abortion question was again addressed in the November 30, 1869, issue of the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald. Under the title "A Few Words Concerning a Great Sin" the Review said, "One of the most shocking and yet one of the most prevalent sins of this generation is the murder of unborn infants. Let those who think this a small sin read Psalm 139:16. They will see that even the unborn child is written in God's book. And they may be well assured that God will not pass unnoticed the murder of such children." 5

A Solemn Appeal contained the Adventist press's next reference to abortion. James White edited this book in 1870, while he was president of the General Conference. White excerpted a statement from Dr. E. P. Miller's Exhausted Vitality for inclusion in the book. The quotation he used reflects the strong sentiments of those physicians involved in the crusade against abortion. Miller castigated abortion as a "nefarious business," a "worse than devilish practice," and a "terrible sin." He went on to say, "Many a woman deter mines that she will not become a mother, and subjects herself to the vilest treatment, committing the basest crime to carry out her purpose. And many a man, who has 'as many children as he can support,' instead of restraining his passions, aids in the destruction of the babes he has begotten.

"The sin lies at the door of both parents in equal measure." 6

KELLOGG SPEAKS OUT
What about the "right arm" of the church, the medical work? In his book Man, the Masterpiece, published in 1894, Dr. John Harvey Kellogg argued against the idea that abortion was permissible before quickening. "From the very moment of conception, those processes have been in operation which result in the production of a fully developed human being from a mere jelly drop, a minute cell. As soon as this development begins, a new human being has come into existence—in embryo, it is true, but possessed of its own individuality, with its own future. . . . From this moment, it acquires the right to life, a right so sacred that in every land to violate it is to incur the penalty of death. . . . None but God knows the full extent of this most heinous crime." 7

The statements quoted above verify the little-known fact that historic Adventism was not silent regarding the abortion question. While the church did not directly involve itself in the 40-year battle to legislate anti-abortion statutes in the United States, the evidence shows where these Adventist leaders stood on the issues that crusade raised.

Ellen G. White did not directly ad dress the issue of abortion, but she did make a number of strong statements regarding the sanctity of human life. For example, she wrote: "Life is mysterious and sacred. It is the manifestation of God Himself, the source of all life. . . .

"God looks into the tiny seed that He Himself has formed, and sees wrapped within it the beautiful flower, the shrub, or the lofty, wide-spreading tree. So does He see the possibilities in every human being." 8

And in another place she spoke even more directly to the point of protecting innocent human life when she wrote, "Human life, which God alone could give, must be sacredly guarded."9

So our Adventist heritage includes both statements that explicitly espouse the sanctity of human life and statements that explicitly condemn abortion. Nineteenth-century Adventism stood in harmony with the previous 18 centuries of Christian thought.

By the 1890s the influence of the Physicians' Crusade had led to the legislation of anti-abortion laws in the United States. This resulted in a cooling of public debate over abortion and began what has been called the "century of silence" on the abortion question. 10 In reality, the "silence" lasted for approximately 70 years. Christian thinking on abortion remained consistent during this period.
Abortion: history of Adventist guidelines

It should also not be forgotten that Ellen White encouraged Adventists to work with Sunday keepers as part of the temperance movement:

The introduction of health and temperance literature in connection with denominational works, may be the means of your reaching a class of people who would be much opposed to you, if it wore not for your temperance principles. Whenever you can got an opportunity to unite with the temperance people, do so. ' But,' you say, ' we are not of their faith.' Did Jesus say so when he was invited to great festivals? ,Did he say, 'They do not believe on we, and It is of no use for me to go there' he went just for the purpose of bringing himself to their notice, and to lead them to believe from his conversation and deportment that he was of God. These things should have a telling influence upon us. People believe everything they ought not to of us. How are we going to undeceive them unless by associating with them? You say they are going to carry this question right along with the Sunday movement. How are you going to help them on that point? You have an opportunity to show them that you are the most earnest temperance people in the world ; and yet you are not improving the opportunity offered you in regard to the temperance question. How are you going to let your light shine to the world without uniting with them in this temperance question? You can do it. You have ideas they never thought of, and this places you on vantage ground. If you engage with them in this work, you will find there will be an opportunity to speak of the truth. We can do no better work than to interest ourselves in helping others to a knowledge of the principles of temperance reform. When you do that, you are blessing them, and their hearts will be open to receive the truth.
https://documents.adventistarchives.org/Periodicals/RH/RH18880214-V65-07.pdf

Ellen White went so far as to say that Adventists should vote on the Sabbath day.

'Yes, to a man, everywhere,' she replied, 'and perhaps I shall shock some of you if I say, If necessary, vote on the Sabbath day for prohibition if you cannot at any other time."'
EllenWhite.Org Website - Voting for a Political Candidate or for an Issue on Sabbath

If there is a cause consistent with the values of Adventism, such as the right to life, Adventists should work with Sunday keepers to further that cause, and see it as an opportunity to introduce Sunday keepers to the Adventist faith.
 

BobRyan

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It's a common misconception perpetuated by the left and the mainstream media that overturning Roe would lead to an automatic, national ban on abortion. What would really happen is that individual states would have the right to form their own abortion laws, as they did before the Roe decision.

Pro-life Adventists who support the overturning of Roe are not, whether wittingly or unwittingly, hastening the national Sunday law. In fact, Adventist pioneers supported laws against abortion in their own time:

Agreed.

In the 1800's we had the issue of "the value of human life" in the case of slavery.
And we had the issue of "the value of privacy, choice when health and stability in society is at stake" in the case of the sale of alcohol on moral grounds.

We were told as a denomination to oppose slavery because the value of human life is so incredibly high. And we were told to oppose the sale of alcohol.

In both cases it was an issue of Christian moral values - trump -- politics and political hijacking of those moral issues.

Today we have those SAME moral issues at stake.

1. The value of human life - in the case of abortion
2. The individual right of choice - vs stable society -- in the case of defining marriage and gender.

Adventists have no excuse for being just as much "in the fog" on these two "second time around" moral issues - as one might think the rest of American society would be confused by the issues.

In both cases in the 1800's Christian groups were on the right side including those who would promote Sunday Laws - still we were called to stand with them on these moral issues. So it is "much less confusing" now my friends.
 
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SavedSinner777

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If and when Roe is overturned, there will be a reckoning for Adventist hospitals, which continue to provide abortions, even in cases when it is not medically necessary. La Sierra University will also need to explain why they named their department of entrepreneurship after a notorious abortion doctor, who said that he specifically wanted to abort blacks and Hispanics for supposedly being a drain on society.
 
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BobRyan

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If and when Roe is overturned, there will be a reckoning for Adventist hospitals, which continue to provide abortions

God has a day of reckoning for all sin -- so we need to proclaim the gospel and not engage in taking innocent life etc that is what we do as born again Christians .. :)
 
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SavedSinner777

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God has a day of reckoning for all sin -- so we need to proclaim the gospel and not engage in taking innocent life etc that is what we do as born again Christians .. :)

What I meant is that there will be a public apology from the Adventist health system. I hope this isn't too unrealistic.
 
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reddogs

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God has a day of reckoning for all sin -- so we need to proclaim the gospel and not engage in taking innocent life etc that is what we do as born again Christians .. :)
It is this reckoning that we should focus on, as that by man means nothing in the end, only God.
 
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The Narrow Way

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What I meant is that there will be a public apology from the Adventist health system. I hope this isn't too unrealistic.
I agree there SHOULD BE a Public Apology....but don't hold your breath! Something that has been going on for over 50 years, pushed under the rug like this has, isn't likely to be repented of.
 
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The Narrow Way

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Honestly, I find it hard to believe that God would even accept their apology if TODAY the Church decided to offer Him one. When you think of it...all the innocent lives that have been taken....is an apology enough? And how much is an apology worth, when it is FORCED out of someone? If they were truly repentant, I believe they would have repented LONG AGO, and not waited til there was no other option.
 
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BobRyan

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Honestly, I find it hard to believe that God would even accept their apology if TODAY the Church decided to offer Him one.

"The church" has a stated policy against abortion -- I doubt they will ever "apologize for it". Today "the church" has a disconnect between the Admin of the denomination and the admin of it hospitals -- I doubt they will ever "apologize" for it. Today the church has strong support for free will - and the result that within the church there can be found both liberals and conservatives - I doubt that the church will ever apologize for that stand on free will.

I think stronger anti-abortion statements should be made from the ADMIN - but the ADMIN is not all conservative so while some have strong opposition to abortion others do not. Also some of them are confused about this being a social issue when, like slavery, this is purely a moral issue and fair game for the church.

Also I think there are complex details as to how someone in ADMIN is selected or appointed in some cases. Individuals involved in that do have accountability no doubt.
 
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The Narrow Way

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"The church" has a stated policy against abortion -- I doubt they will ever "apologize for it". Today "the church" has a disconnect between the Admin of the denomination and the admin of it hospitals -- I doubt they will ever "apologize" for it. Today the church has strong support for free will - and the result that within the church there can be found both liberals and conservatives - I doubt that the church will ever apologize for that stand on free will.

I think stronger anti-abortion statements should be made from the ADMIN - but the ADMIN is not all conservative so while some have strong opposition to abortion others do not. Also some of them are confused about this being a social issue when, like slavery, this is purely a moral issue and fair game for the church.

Also I think there are complex details as to how someone in ADMIN is selected or appointed in some cases. Individuals involved in that do have accountability no doubt.
Don't know if you have seen this, @BobRyan, I just saw it today. It makes it very clear that their stand against abortion isn't really a stand against abortion.
 
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Gary K

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Don't know if you have seen this, @BobRyan, I just saw it today. It makes it very clear that their stand against abortion isn't really a stand against abortion.
I agree with you on this. The church's "stand" isn't a stand at all. It is pure hypocrisy.

We have been told by Ellen White that during the time of the shaking, which is going on right now, that some of our brightest lights would go out and the church would appear to be ready to fall but God would bring it through.

As I look around I can only trust God as we appear to be already fallen to me.
 
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The Narrow Way

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As I look around I can only trust God as we appear to be already fallen to me.
I agree completely....history repeats itself....we have fallen, just as the Jews have fallen...but as there was a remnant amongst them, so is there amongst us.
 
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reddogs

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"The church" has a stated policy against abortion -- I doubt they will ever "apologize for it". Today "the church" has a disconnect between the Admin of the denomination and the admin of it hospitals -- I doubt they will ever "apologize" for it. Today the church has strong support for free will - and the result that within the church there can be found both liberals and conservatives - I doubt that the church will ever apologize for that stand on free will.

I think stronger anti-abortion statements should be made from the ADMIN - but the ADMIN is not all conservative so while some have strong opposition to abortion others do not. Also some of them are confused about this being a social issue when, like slavery, this is purely a moral issue and fair game for the church.

Also I think there are complex details as to how someone in ADMIN is selected or appointed in some cases. Individuals involved in that do have accountability no doubt.
The thing is, that these events will cause the wheat and the tares to sift and separate, and then the shaking. But we have to remember that no matter what issues press against it and shake it, the church will not fall and will be there till the end... Ellen G. White Estate: Daily Devotional - Maranatha
 
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BobRyan

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Agreed - but I don't think this has anything to do with "the church falling". Remember, as an SDA I have far more control (though very limited) over the conference and its education department policy than over the "Hospital down the block" from me. This denomination was very deliberate in creating that wall of separation when it comes to the medical work , healthcare corporations etc.
 
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reddogs

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Agreed - but I don't think this has anything to do with "the church falling". Remember, as an SDA I have far more control (though very limited) over the conference and its education department policy than over the "Hospital down the block" from me. This denomination was very deliberate in creating that wall of separation when it comes to the medical work , healthcare corporations etc.
Well, the devil uses many tools to cause people to turn away from the church or even leave, or create issues within it. We had the tithe issue where people felt it was not using the money right so spread the idea not to give it to the church, to say nothing of the idea of not using Ellen White in the sermon or at all in church, and lately the Womans ordination issue. It just goes on and on (nature of Christ before or after the fall, the IJ with Desmond Ford) and the babys being aborted in hospitals especially Adventist hospitals is another of these issues that Satan uses. Woman as a norm, go to clinics to have abortions not hospitals, you will not find any section specifically for abortions in a hospital, but they will treat a woman for rape with kits, or in a emergency situation or as needed according to the situation. But it just seems to be one of these issues that Satan uses in this fashion that really has no answer till the sin question is resolved.
 
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The Narrow Way

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Well, the devil uses many tools to cause people to turn away from the church or even leave, or create issues within it. We had the tithe issue where people felt it was not using the money right so spread the idea not to give it to the church, to say nothing of the idea of not using Ellen White in the sermon or at all in church, and lately the Womans ordination issue. It just goes on and on (nature of Christ before or after the fall, the IJ with Desmond Ford) and the babys being aborted in hospitals especially Adventist hospitals is another of these issues that Satan uses. Woman as a norm, go to clinics to have abortions not hospitals, you will not find any section specifically for abortions in a hospital, but they will treat a woman for rape with kits, or in a emergency situation or as needed according to the situation. But it just seems to be one of these issues that Satan uses in this fashion that really has no answer till the sin question is resolved.
If the Church DID the RIGHT thing, took the RIGHT stand, the issues would take care of themselves. It's because the Church tries to sit on the fence and make both sides happy, and compromise where they shouldn't that the they are in the mess they are in.
 
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reddogs

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If the Church DID the RIGHT thing, took the RIGHT stand, the issues would take care of themselves. It's because the Church tries to sit on the fence and make both sides happy, and compromise where they shouldn't that the they are in the mess they are in.
Yes, we can say the same thing about Adam and Eve, if only they did the right thing, and yet...
 
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DarylFawcett

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I like the leadership in the Michigan Conference and wish that the leadership in the other conferences were more like them.

I especially enjoyed some their campmeeting speakers this year and last year, as well as their campmeeting themes.
 
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SavedSinner777

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I couldn't have imagined a better way to end "pride month" than for the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade, uphold the right to pray at public school sporting events, uphold the right of religious schools to receive vouchers, and uphold the right of law-abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms, even though I will never own a gun. The rage expressed by the left over these decisions, especially over Roe, suggests a demonic influence. I'll be working on the 4th of July, but I'll be feeling happier for my country than I could have possibly imagined.
 
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