Texas woman with ectopic pregnancy denied abortion

[Desk trauma]

Because of the inherently interstate nature of such laws it'll bring the supreme court up again and in this case they'd find no defensible reason to allow states to ban interstate travel for any such reason.

I’m not going to bet much on that.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Because of the inherently interstate nature of such laws it'll bring the supreme court up again and in this case they'd find no defensible reason to allow states to ban interstate travel for any such reason.

speaking on that someone should challenge laws from California, etc that prevent you from bringing a firearm bought in another state into California.

How does the interstate nature matter?
Illinois bans certain fireworks so people drive north to buy them in Wisconsin to bring them back. Likewise Wisconsin bans marijuana so people drive south to Illinois to buy it and bring it back. States absolutely could ban birth control. And as for banning leaving the state for certain activities, Idaho already had a bill introduced that would ban leaving the state to get gender affirming care for a transgender child Idaho lawmakers seek to punish parents who take trans youth to other states for health care

 

[ozso]

It isn't legally a person. I think you mean that it's just pretending an unborn human life isn't really a human life. And there are certainly some who do just that.

It's always a human life. It's not legally a person until birth. It starts off as a little blob and gradually gains more characteristics over the course of the pregnancy. So where's the cutoff point for abortion? Whenever we as a society decides it is, and that can be different for different states.

Could you cite that law please? In the meantime I've read in the news about people who have committed a crime that's resulted in the death of an unborn child being charged manslaughter or murder.

 

[ozso]

Exactly, which is what we’ve come to expect from people who are incapable of having an honest discussion. All they know is how to discredit those who oppose their views by lies and misrepresentation.

You're calling everyone who disagrees with you a dishonest liar, simply because they proved you wrong. Hey wow, that was fun. Maybe I should go over to the dark side.

 

[ozso]

Not society, fertile women in a few states.

Yeah, but the snowball effect. Have you heard the one that goes "using the law to force a woman to give birth to save a life, could result in you being forced to donate a kidney to save a life"?

 

[ozso]

Which means Texas isn't outlawing abortion, they've just made it inaccessible to those who don't have the means...

No wonder their law is so popular with the GOP.

"Those who don't have the means" in political talk usually means black people. Like the GOP is closing down voting stations where black people live, because they don't have the means to go elsewhere to vote for Democrats. However... why would all those so-called racists want more black people being born?

 

[Desk trauma]

Yeah, but the snowball effect. Have you heard the one that goes "using the law to force a woman to give birth to save a life, could result in you being forced to donate a kidney to save a life"?

I have seen it used often to point to pro- life hypocrisy.

 

[ozso]

I have seen it used often to point to pro- life hypocrisy.

Pro-life hypocrisy?

 

[TLK Valentine]

"Those who don't have the means" in political talk usually means black people. Like the GOP is closing down voting stations where black people live, because they don't have the means to go elsewhere to vote for Democrats. However... why would all those so-called racists want more black people being born?

In this case, I was thinking "poor people." There's no shortage of poor people of any race in this country... And Texas is no exception.

The politicians and their donors will always have enough money to send their wives, daughters, girlfriends, mistresses, secretaries, acquaintances, victims... or any combination of the above... Out of state and away from prying eyes eager for a $10,000 payout and a pat on the head from the establishment.

This law was never meant to inconvenience them... It was only ever meant to be enforced on peasants like you and me.

...and I don't know about you, but I'm as white as white gets... and ten grand ain't exactly petty cash.

 

[Desk trauma]

Pro-life hypocrisy?

Yes.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Pro-life hypocrisy?

How much do you care about the lives of the postborn? How much do your elected officials care?

(hint: those postborn are going to need formula... know where to score any?)

 

[Yttrium]

Could you cite that law please? In the meantime I've read in the news about people who have committed a crime that's resulted in the death of an unborn child being charged manslaughter or murder.

Erm. That's a pretty broad legal territory. Different laws can define legal personhood differently. And in fact, if Roe v Wade goes away, it will be fine for a state to define a fetus or an embryo as a person for legal purposes. (This could lead to all sorts of complicated legal issues, but that's for the states in question to deal with.)

 

[Jamdoc]

Why would that stop them for ruling in your favor anyway?

Because American citizens have the right to travel interstate for any reason they please.

Roe v Wade is based on an improperly broad interpretation of the 14th Amendment, it's bad precedent to have been set, such a "law" needs to be done legislatively rather by Judiciary.

Well now, that they would stop; firearms being a sacred thing. ...

It's an actual constitutionally granted right.
Abortion is not.

 

[NxNW]

You'll need to contact the Cleveland Clinic about that and set them straight.

"Unfortunately, an ectopic pregnancy is fatal for the fetus. It cannot survive outside of the uterus.

I guess we're both in agreement that you should learn your terminology and Cleveland Clinic should fix that passage.

 

[NxNW]

We've been through all this, and it's still a bogus argument.

If it was bogus, you could refute it.

And I'm still waiting for you to produce the source of your definition.

Better yet, find me a single source that refutes it.

 

[Jamdoc]

How does the interstate nature matter?
Illinois bans certain fireworks so people drive north to buy them in Wisconsin to bring them back. Likewise Wisconsin bans marijuana so people drive south to Illinois to buy it and bring it back. States absolutely could ban birth control. And as for banning leaving the state for certain activities, Idaho already had a bill introduced that would ban leaving the state to get gender affirming care for a transgender child Idaho lawmakers seek to punish parents who take trans youth to other states for health care

Well, because those particular laws ban the POSSESSION of an object or substance, regardless of where you purchased it from.
They cannot however, ban you from going to another state where Marijuana is legal, smoking it there, then coming back, because you're not in possession of a banned substance at that point.

In the case of these people traveling for an abortion, they're not coming back into the state possessing anything that's a crime, unless it's like, they ban birth control methods like an IUD and a woman is "possessing" one in her body that was implanted in another state.

and again I certainly don't agree with attempting to ban contraceptives. That IS a your body, your choice issue. Abortion however is another person's body. That distinction changes things.

But interstate commerce and transport is federal government turf, not state turf.
They can ban possession of things but constitutionally speaking... they shouldn't be able to ban interstate commerce or travel, that warrants being challenged in federal court.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Because American citizens have the right to travel interstate for any reason they please.

Mann Act - Wikipedia

Next question?

Roe v Wade is based on an improperly broad interpretation of the 14th Amendment, it's bad precedent to have been set, such a "law" needs to be done legislatively rather by Judiciary.

I partially agree. I think RvW was a good decision, but the legislature should have made it official decades ago, rather than expect it to stand indefinitely.

It's an actual constitutionally granted right.
Abortion is not.

The right to keep and bear arms... Nothing in there about transportation... And since Well-regulated militias are regulated by individual states, there would be no reason to transport them... Unless North Carolina decides to invade South Carolina...

But I think we've got a National Guard to deal with that...

 

[NxNW]

More like should have taken better precautions.

And are you against people being more responsible? .... suggest that many/most unwanted pregnancies are the result of not taking proper precautions, that's outrageous and morally bankrupt etc.

100 million women using birth control correctly and responsibly still means a failure rate of 1%, leading to a million unwanted pregnancies every year.

That's as good as the US can ever expect to see.

 

[Yttrium]

I guess we're both in agreement that you should learn your terminology and Cleveland Clinic should fix that passage.

In context, the Cleveland Clinic is correct. They're talking about the possibility of not ending the pregnancy, and the embryo becomes a fetus at the nine week point. It's not uncommon for an ectopic pregnancy to be dealt with after the nine week point.

 

[NxNW]

Fetuses move, respond to stimuli and have dreams,

Not during the first trimester, they don't.