Texas woman with ectopic pregnancy denied abortion

[TLK Valentine]

That one I disagree with.
Life doesn't begin at erection.

Let's see how long that lasts if your Republican representatives get their way...

 

[ottawak]

And when it comes to this exceptional/uncommon case, it seems to me that pro-abortionists are using it to demonstrate how abortion laws are "grossly immoral" and therefore shouldn't exist in the first place.

What's grossly immoral about it is not the concept of abortion restriction but that the law will effectively bar treatment for eptopic pregancies, women will suffer and die for a fetus which will die anyway and pro-lifers don't care. "She shudda kepper legs closed."

 

[ozso]

What's grossly immoral about it is not the concept of abortion restriction but that the law will effectively bar treatment for eptopic pregancies, women will suffer and die for a fetus which will die anyway and pro-lifers don't care. "She shudda kepper legs closed."

Treatment for an ectopic pregnancy isn't the same thing or procedure as an abortion. In an abortion they slice up and and vacuum the baby out of the uterus. It's impossible to treat ectopic pregnancy using that procedure. Because the fetus isn't in the uterus, it's in the fallopian tube. Where it has no chance of survival. I'm sure the obvious will be concluded that they are two entirely different things.

But yeah, I get it. The real message is pro-life is immoral and they want to see women die etc.

 

[Nithavela]

Treatment for an ectopic pregnancy isn't the same thing or procedure as an abortion. In an abortion they slice up and and vacuum the baby out of the uterus.

They dont do that in most abortions, either.

I'm sure the obvious will be concluded that they are two entirely different things.

Of course. Lets pretend the thing mentioned in the OP never happened. Its easier that way.

 

[ozso]

They dont do that in most abortions, either.


Of course. Lets pretend the thing mentioned in the OP never happened. Its easier that way.

It was the doctors decision not to proceed.

 

[ottawak]

Treatment for an ectopic pregnancy isn't the same thing or procedure as an abortion. In an abortion they slice up and and vacuum the baby out of the uterus. It's impossible to treat ectopic pregnancy using that procedure. Because the fetus isn't in the uterus, it's in the fallopian tube. Where it has no chance of survival. I'm sure the obvious will be concluded that they are two entirely different things.

But yeah, I get it. The real message is pro-life is immoral and they want to see women die etc.

Personally, I am opposed to abortion and tolerant of restrictions on it--after all, there are already restrictions that pro-choicers are comfortable with, especially pro-choicers like me who oppose abortion. And I realize that many pro-lifers sincerely believe that abortion always murders a baby, even when it is a zygote. I don't understand that point of view, but I respect that it is held sincerely. But yes, I find your indifference to the possible death of women from ectopic pregnancies profoundly immoral. The laws which allow it could easily be changed without increasing fetal death due to abortion (in an ectopic pregnancy the fetus dies anyway) but you just hand-wave the issue away, "I'm sure the obvious will be concluded that they are two entirely different things."

I suppose we will have to wait and see, but if it happens too often or too blatantly the the pro-life movement will indeed be revealed as immoral.

 

[ottawak]

It was the doctors decision not to proceed.

Hard to blame the doctor when there is a witch hunt going on.

 

[Mayzoo]

It was the doctors decision not to proceed.

At least two doctors refused to perform the abortion due to fear of legal ramifications based on the law. So that is two medical bills she now has to pay plus the one for treatment outside her state. How many doctors should she have been willing to pay inside the state?

When this happens to someone who does not have the money to go out of state for treatment, we will be reading a different story.

 

[Nithavela]

It was the doctors decision not to proceed.

And why did they choose not to proceed?

 

[ozso]

Personally, I am opposed to abortion and tolerant of restrictions on it--after all, there are already restrictions that pro-choicers are comfortable with, especially pro-choicers like me who oppose abortion. And I realize that many pro-lifers sincerely believe that abortion always murders a baby, even when it is a zygote. I don't understand that point of view, but I respect that it is held sincerely. But yes, I find your indifference to the possible death of women from ectopic pregnancies profoundly immoral. The laws which allow it could easily be changed without increasing fetal death due to abortion (in an ectopic pregnancy the fetus dies anyway) but you just hand-wave the issue away, "I'm sure the obvious will be concluded that they are two entirely different things."

I suppose we will have to wait and see, but if it happens too often or too blatantly the the pro-life movement will indeed be revealed as immoral.

The reason why you find I find my "indifference to the possible death of women from ectopic pregnancies profoundly immoral" is because you don't understand what I said.

What I clearly said is treatment for an ectopic pregnancy is an entirely different procedure than an abortion. And I illustrated the vast difference between the two.

Put another way, that should be understood by anyone, I'm completely in favor of a fetus being removed from a fallopian tube, where it has no chance of survival and will just rupture the tube.

 

[ozso]

And why did they choose not to proceed?

As I understand it, because they were uncertain if how the abortion law applied to a procedure that's not the same procedure as an abortion.

 

[ottawak]

The reason why you find I find my "indifference to the possible death of women from ectopic pregnancies profoundly immoral" is because you don't understand what I said.

What I clearly said is treatment for an ectopic pregnancy is an entirely different procedure than an abortion. And I illustrated the vast difference between the two.

Put another way, that should be understood by anyone, I'm completely in favor of a fetus being removed from a fallopian tube, where it has no chance of survival and will just rupture the tube.

Yes, I understand your position, and I still think it is immoral to rely on wishful thinking to avert what for the woman is a life threatening situation.

As I understand it, because they were uncertain if how the abortion law applied to a procedure that's not the same procedure as an abortion.

Not to worry, there will be an expensive lawsuit or two and maybe some women will die, but it will all get straightened out. Right? Then the pro-lifers who drafted the law can complain about activist courts and left-wing tyranny.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

No children have been killed by abortion. Zip, zero.

So what you are saying is the child in the womb is not a child and therefore not worthy of life. If an abortion has occurred a child has died. Stop trying to minimize the child in the womb; it's as human and alive as we are. Splitting hairs is ridiculous, Bill Clinton.

 

[ozso]

Yes, I understand your position, and I still think it is immoral to rely on wishful thinking to avert what for the woman is a life threatening situation.

Not to worry, there will be an expensive lawsuit or two and maybe some women will die, but it will all get straightened out. Right? Then the pro-lifers who drafted the law can complain about activist courts and left-wing tyranny.

How about addressing what I'm actually saying? I don't engage in refuting strawman tactics.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

Next step, legislation that prevents leaving the state for this purpose or allows for prosecution upon return.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

Next step, legislation that prevents leaving the state for this purpose or allows for prosecution upon return.

Relax, that will never happen. Americans are allowed to travel anywhere in the US at anytime and for any reason.

 

[ottawak]

How about addressing what I'm actually saying? I don't engage in refuting strawman tactics.

What you are basically saying is that somehow it will all get figured out and no one will die oof an eptopic pregnancy because of the abortion law. I really hope yoou are right.

 

[ozso]

What you are basically saying is that somehow it will all get figured out and no one will die oof an eptopic pregnancy because of the abortion law. I really hope yoou are right.

That's not what I'm saying. That's you rewording what I said. I usually stop talking to those who do that.

 

[ottawak]

Relax, that will never happen. Americans are allowed to travel anywhere in the US at anytime and for any reason.

No problem, conservative legal minds are already working on it.

 

[ottawak]

Nope.

Then I have misunderstood you entirely, for which I apologize, and hope you provide clarification.