Texas woman with ectopic pregnancy denied abortion

Blade

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:) can't just talk (some) without making it personal. Ever watch a abortion? And yes depends on when but for something thats not alive it makes all kind of (forgive me) noises and screams. Like saying God does not heal any more. So your there as the preacher prays over this blind that means can't see and she gets new eyes.

Abortion is real it does kill babies that have a heart beat and brain functions. So ectopic pregnancy is when the egg grows outside the uterus and can be life threatening. I think being denied (me looking from the outside in) is wrong. But I don't have all the facts.
 
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TLK Valentine

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:) can't just talk (some) without making it personal. Ever watch a abortion? And yes depends on when but for something thats not alive it makes all kind of (forgive me) noises and screams. Like saying God does not heal any more. So your there as the preacher prays over this blind that means can't see and she gets new eyes.

Abortion is real it does kill babies that have a heart beat and brain functions. So ectopic pregnancy is when the egg grows outside the uterus and can be life threatening. I think being denied (me looking from the outside in) is wrong. But I don't have all the facts.

Have you seen an actual video?
 
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coffee4u

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“Normally most physicians want to intervene as soon as they diagnose an ectopic pregnancy, before it ruptures,” Braid said. But S.B. 8 leaves doctors wondering when they can legally take action, he said: “Do you have to wait until it’s about to rupture? Until it has?”

“How do you make that decision under this law? No one wants to get sued,” said Braid, who has been sued at least three times since he wrote the op-ed.

In early September, the National Abortion Federation (NAF) hotline, which coordinates abortion care, received a call from a patient with an ectopic pregnancy in a rural part of South Texas. Rachel Lachenauer, the hotline director, said the woman had no idea what to do: She had been turned away by her regular doctor, she said, who told her that S.B. 8 prevented them from terminating the pregnancy. The woman told Lachenauer the doctor was “nervous” about getting sued, Lachenauer recalled.

Lachenauer and another NAF staff member, who worked on her case and confirmed the story, told the patient to go to the closest emergency room right away. Shortly after that, Lachenauer said, the patient called back: When she called the hospital, she told NAF, they said she would have to seek care in another state.

“We’re pretty flabbergasted at this point,” Lachenauer said. “We are a remote call center. We can’t go and pick her up.” The whole time, Lachenauer said, she was consulting with NAF’s medical team, who said the patient was in immediate danger.

The patient ended up driving between 12 and 15 hours to a hospital in New Mexico, Lachenauer said, where she was able to terminate her pregnancy."


The Texas abortion ban has a medical exception. But some doctors worry it’s too narrow to use.

Except most pro life website you care to pursue do not consider treating ectopic pregnancy to be abortion.

What can and should be done is an attempt to treat both. If both mother and baby are viewed as patients rather than just the mother than standard procedure would be to try and save both.
Will they save both? Probably not, but it has been done. The chance for death does not mean no treatment should be given. Even if the death risk is 99% or more for the embryo. The treatment is more for the parents state of mind than anything else.

Ectopic transplantation includes two case reports from 1915 and 1980. The only reason they say we don't have the technology is because they have not investigated it fully. If they can transfer fertilized eggs after sitting frozen in storage for 10 years I am sure they could at least attempt to transfer embryos outside the uterus.
The death rate is not the important thing here even if every embryo transplant results in the death of the embryo, the important thing is trying. It gives the embryo the dignity it deserves and the mother can rest in the knowledge that the doctor tried. What isn't being acknowledged here is how much mental damage is being done to mothers and I am sure to some fathers when all they are offered is 'abortion'. Most ectopics are wanted pregnancies.
In virtually all ectopic pregnancies, the embryo will not survive past the first trimester. It is a known death sentence for the baby and can also be for the mother.
 
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jayem

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:) can't just talk (some) without making it personal. Ever watch a abortion? And yes depends on when but for something thats not alive it makes all kind of (forgive me) noises and screams. Like saying God does not heal any more. So your there as the preacher prays over this blind that means can't see and she gets new eyes.

I'm a retired health care provider. I'm not an OB-GYN, but I did watch an abortion being performed during my medical training. This would have been around 1975--more than a year after Roe v. Wade. As I recall, it was an early term abortion--maybe 12 weeks or so. The method back then was D & C: dilatation and curettage. The cervix was dilated and the uterine contents were scraped out. The patient was briefly anesthetized, and there was no screaming. I did not see any recognizable embryonic parts in the tissue that was removed (which was termed POC--products of conception.) The main concern was that the uterus must be completely evacuated of all placental and embryonic tissue. Any remaining tissue presented a high risk of infection. The procedure didn't take more than 30 minutes or so. It was all very clinical. Honestly, I've seen much worse in my career. Like a hip disarticulation. And an accident victim with deep 3rd degree burns over 70% of his body. Who didn't survive.
 
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FireDragon76

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You are aware that an untreated ectopic pregnancy is likely to be painfully fatal? That the unborn child will die whether the mother survives or not? You are willing to put women through that just so your religious sensibilities won't be offended?

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." - Blaise Pascal
 
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FireDragon76

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Except most pro life website you care to pursue do not consider treating ectopic pregnancy to be abortion.

What can and should be done is an attempt to treat both. If both mother and baby are viewed as patients rather than just the mother than standard procedure would be to try and save both.
Will they save both? Probably not, but it has been done. The chance for death does not mean no treatment should be given. Even if the death risk is 99% or more for the embryo. The treatment is more for the parents state of mind than anything else.

Ectopic transplantation includes two case reports from 1915 and 1980. The only reason they say we don't have the technology is because they have not investigated it fully. If they can transfer fertilized eggs after sitting frozen in storage for 10 years I am sure they could at least attempt to transfer embryos outside the uterus.
The death rate is not the important thing here even if every embryo transplant results in the death of the embryo, the important thing is trying. It gives the embryo the dignity it deserves and the mother can rest in the knowledge that the doctor tried. What isn't being acknowledged here is how much mental damage is being done to mothers and I am sure to some fathers when all they are offered is 'abortion'. Most ectopics are wanted pregnancies.
In virtually all ectopic pregnancies, the embryo will not survive past the first trimester. It is a known death sentence for the baby and can also be for the mother.

Human experimentation that is risky and presents little chance of success is unethical.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Ectopic pregnancy absolutely does warrant abortion it's one of the rare exceptions.
You'll end up losing both mother and child otherwise.

And most of even the most draconian of antiabortion laws recognize this.

Please note the use of "most" and not "all."
 
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Jamdoc

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And most of even the most draconian of antiabortion laws recognize this.

Please note the use of "most" and not "all."

It's a situation where killing is not murder, but self defense.
 
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Jamdoc

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Some would argue that all abortions fall into the category of self-defense.

Most aren't, if it's an elective abortion they chose to have sex and this is a consequence of their actions, and it's not a threat to their life in most cases.
Ectopic pregnancy is however medical necessity because it is life threatening.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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:) can't just talk (some) without making it personal. Ever watch a abortion? And yes depends on when but for something thats not alive it makes all kind of (forgive me) noises and screams. Like saying God does not heal any more. So your there as the preacher prays over this blind that means can't see and she gets new eyes.
I have seen an abortion video on here. Years ago. I was a tiny looking circle. About the size of a pea. Maybe smaller. It didn't make any noise. That's when the majority of abortions happen. I don't like abortions. But I didn't hear what you described. You probably seen an abortion of a very brain damaged or sick fetus, that only felt pain. And that's why the abortion happen.
 
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Seems agenda is to take an exceptional case and present it as the rule for why wholesale abortions should be legal.

No, the agenda is to make sure the exceptions clearly exist in the law and are understood to exist by the public and doctors, so that the doctors can act when necessary to preserve the life of the woman. The Texas law clearly wasn't good enough in this case, since the doctors weren't willing to risk it.
 
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Most aren't, if it's an elective abortion they chose to have sex and this is a consequence of their actions, and it's not a threat to their life in most cases.
Ectopic pregnancy is however medical necessity because it is life threatening.

Phrasing this so that it avoids breaking the site rules: Some would argue that a failure in birth control is not sufficient reason to be forcibly used as an incubator for nine months, and that the unborn has no right to attach itself without permission. Clearly one cannot argue that permission is given when choosing to have sex, because the unborn does not yet exist.

A similar argument would be leaving your door unlocked in the winter and coming home to find that someone has entered your house in order to avoid freezing to death. The entry might have been a consequence of the unlocked door, but the intruder still does not have the right to be there. Many (most?) citizens would argue that they have the right to expel the intruder at gunpoint, even if it means the intruder will freeze to death. Is the age of the intruder a factor here? Second Amendment advocates would say no.

There is an old saying, "a man's home is his castle." Is a woman's body less so?
 
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Ceallaigh

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No, the agenda is to make sure the exceptions clearly exist in the law and are understood to exist by the public and doctors, so that the doctors can act when necessary to preserve the life of the woman. The Texas law clearly wasn't good enough in this case, since the doctors weren't willing to risk it.

I'm sure that's the case where the doctors are concerned. But the situation is also being exploited by those who want wholesale abortions to proceed unimpeded.
 
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Doctors worry about what might happen? Why don't we just do the right thing and perform the medical emergency. There is an obvious allowance in the law so just take care of it. It sounds like it's being done and there hasn't been any issues yet.
The issue is the current Texas abortion law that allows for anybody unconnected to the case to sue, without having to pay the defendants costs if they lose.
 
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Jamdoc

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Phrasing this so that it avoids breaking the site rules: Some would argue that a failure in birth control is not sufficient reason to be forcibly used as an incubator for nine months, and that the unborn has no right to attach itself without permission. Clearly one cannot argue that permission is given when choosing to have sex, because the unborn does not yet exist.

A similar argument would be leaving your door unlocked in the winter and coming home to find that someone has entered your house in order to avoid freezing to death. The entry might have been a consequence of the unlocked door, but the intruder still does not have the right to be there. Many (most?) citizens would argue that they have the right to expel the intruder at gunpoint, even if it means the intruder will freeze to death. Is the age of the intruder a factor here? Second Amendment advocates would say no.

There is an old saying, "a man's home is his castle." Is a woman's body less so?

A child that is the consequences of your own poor decision making is not an intruder.
the person going into your home is a stranger, you do not know their motivations or if they are a threat to you or your family, so you're acting in self defense.

So.. this is my stance on the whole issue
First off, the woman should be aware that if she has sex, a pregnancy is a possible consequence, so, she should make decisions wisely with that in mind. Contraceptives may lower the chance, but not eliminate it completely. So if a woman is going to have sex, she has to be willing to accept that this may make her a mother.
For an actual married family, okay, prepare to expand your family then, it happens. It happened to my sister, her IUD failed, but you know what? She and her husband sat down, and decided to expand their family, even though they were worried about finances. Know what happened? God blessed them, she had twins, a boy and a girl, and they're absolutely priceless, her husband actually quit his day job to be a stay at home dad to cut down on childcare costs, but.. his small business that he runs from his home took off, so they're actually doing better than they had been before.
For unwed? You know, maybe consider not fornicating or committing adultery?
I see no reason for abortions to be legal on the premise of enabling fornication/adultery, "hookup culture" if you will. If driving abortions out of easy accessibility reduces hook up culture? God be praised.

Now mind you, I'm okay with contraceptives, even morning after pills, anything that works prior to implantation which is when I believe is actual biblical conception (as conception takes place in the womb, but fertilization takes place in the fallopian tubes, even with a fertilized egg a woman is not considered pregnant until implantation)
So those can be used for family planning and for dealing with rape and incest.

But after implantation? Should only be permitted for medical needs, that is threat to the life of the mother (self defense) or fatal anomaly of the fetus (compassion, if they have no chance of surviving outside the womb once born)

as far as "my body my choice"? Well, I used to drink that kool aid, until they started pushing for vaccine mandates. Suddenly it's not my body my choice anymore is it?
Not to mention, in a pregnancy, there are 2 bodies involved.
and one of them is not the woman's.
 
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Jamdoc

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and let's be real, it was never about "my body my choice" it is, and always has been, a desire to sin without "consequence", even if it kills other people.
but what they really do, is store up more wrath for God to take out on them, unless they seek His grace through Jesus Christ.
 
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