Gunman Murders at Least 10 in Buffalo

[Bradskii]

Which is why a lot of the more progressive countries have far stricter immigration requirements than we have.

Which is not actually true. With the exception of family sponsorship, you're one of the hardest countries to gain citizenship or residency.
5 of the Hardest Countries for Obtaining Citizenship

'Austria, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, and the United States are five nations that make it especially difficult for foreigners to establish permanent residency or obtain citizenship.'

 

[Bradskii]

CRT causes white supremacy? That’s a twist.

But you don't need a logical argument. All you need to do is say 'Cee Arr Tee' and that then is the problem.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Which is not actually true. With the exception of family sponsorship, you're one of the hardest countries to gain citizenship or residency.
5 of the Hardest Countries for Obtaining Citizenship

'Austria, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, and the United States are five nations that make it especially difficult for foreigners to establish permanent residency or obtain citizenship.'

It should be noted that "establishing residency" and "obtaining citizenship" aren't the same thing.

While establishing residency may be easier, getting citizenship (and the benefits that go with it) is quite a bit tougher in many progressive countries...

Take for instance

Citizenship application | Maahanmuuttovirasto.

These are the requirements if you want to become an official citizen of Finland.

-You have to live in Finland for 5+ years as a "resident"
-You need to be proficient in oral and written skills in their language
-You have to keep detailed records proving that you've paid your taxes, fees, fines etc... for the 5 years you were a "resident


Norway is similar

• You must have documented or clarified your identity.
• You must be resident in Norway and intend to continue to live here.
• If you are married to, or are the registered partner or cohabitant of a Norwegian national, the time you have lived in Norway and the total time you have been married, registered partners or cohabitants, must be at least seven years. You must have lived in Norway for a total of at least three years during the past ten years. You must still be married, registered partners or cohabitants and live together at the time of the decision. You must meet the requirements for a permanent residence permit in Norway.
• You must have completed 300 hours of tuition in the Norwegian language or be able to document sufficient skills in Norwegian or Sami.

 

[cow451]

But you don't need a logical argument. All you need to do is say 'Cee Arr Tee' and that then is the problem.

Let’s combine them into one. Critical Replacement Theory.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

CRT causes white supremacy? That’s a twist.

I think CRT is thing that "already racist" people cling to as their excuse or justification in many cases.

That being said, some of the interpretations of CRT are so slanted and historically inaccurate that it definitely feeds the trolls, so to speak.

If you get a group of people who are already exhibiting certain "white supremacist tendencies", and push for ideologies that are basically tantamount to "white people suck", it's easy to see how people like that could glom onto that and make it their "new thing to fight against" or excuse for hating "group XYZ"

For instance, if you had a group of people who had a chip on their shoulder about vegans, and public schools started introducing content that was basically saying "anyone who eats beef or chicken is destroying the planet, and should be chastised", that would be all it would take to make them lash out.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Replacement Theory? What kind of …. Human…. promotes this?

Promotes? Well, Tucker and Ken Paxton and others. But believes in some fashion?

PHOENIX (CBSDFW.COM/AP) - With anti-immigrant rhetoric heating up in the lead-up to this year's midterm elections, about 1 in 3 U.S. adults believes an effort is underway to replace native-born Americans with immigrants for electoral gains.

 

[cow451]

I think CRT is thing that "already racist" people cling to as their excuse or justification in many cases.

That being said, some of the interpretations of CRT are so slanted and historically inaccurate that it definitely feeds the trolls, so to speak.

If you get a group of people who are already exhibiting certain "white supremacist tendencies", and push for ideologies that are basically tantamount to "white people suck", it's easy to see how people like that could glom onto that and make it their "new thing to fight against" or excuse for hating "group XYZ"

If native Americans were to steal the replacement theory idea it would make sense.

A problem is that some of the biggest proponents of stupid ideas like replacement theory are cable news “entertainers” and failed comics with YouTube Channels. A lot of them don’t actually believe the crap but it is financially rewarding for them. I don’t get the draw of watching idiots on You Tube talk.

Rant time over.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

What he did was kill innocent people. I don't think they pin a medal on you for doing that.

If his motive was to kill people with dark skin, the military is good about rewarding people for killing them, as long as they are not "innocent".

 

[ThatRobGuy]

A problem is that some of the biggest proponents of stupid ideas like replacement theory are cable news “entertainers” and failed comics with YouTube Channels. A lot of them don’t actually believe the crap but it is financially rewarding for them. I don’t get the draw of watching idiots on You Tube talk.

Yeah...cable news is a 50/50 in terms of Blessing/Curse.

When the "Fairness Doctrine" was repealed in the late 80's, that was the beginning of the end of getting (at least somewhat) reliable televised news.

 

[cow451]

If his motive was to kill people with dark skin, the military is good about rewarding people for killing them, as long as they are not "innocent".

My guess is that this crazy lunch bucket wouldn’t have made past MEPS.

 

[Bradskii]

It should be noted that "establishing residency" and "obtaining citizenship" aren't the same thing.

Neither is easy: How Hard Is It To Get a Green Card? | Kenneth Alan Forman

'No matter how you attempt it, it's not easy to get a green card. The process of getting a green card can be very long and complicated.'

And as we were talking about immigration, I think that citizenship is a measure of how we should define it.

 

[Bradskii]

If his motive was to kill people with dark skin, the military is good about rewarding people for killing them, as long as they are not "innocent".

Then I guess the military should be encouraging white supremacists to join up.

'Well son, why do you want to join the Marines?'
'Sir, I want to kill people with dark skin. Sir!'
'Sign here'.

And I'm not sure why you put 'innocent' in scare quotes...

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Neither is easy: How Hard Is It To Get a Green Card? | Kenneth Alan Forman

'No matter how you attempt it, it's not easy to get a green card. The process of getting a green card can be very long and complicated.'

And as we were talking about immigration, I think that citizenship is a measure of how we should define it.

Processing time and length of time living in the country shouldn't be conflated with difficulty.

Perhaps I'm nitpicking here, but are very different concepts.


The other aspect that relates to this topic is whether or not there's any sort of "push" to allow non-citizens to vote in elections.

 

[public hermit]

If his motive was to kill people with dark skin, the military is good about rewarding people for killing them, as long as they are not "innocent".

Please stop; it looks like you're trying to recruit racists into the military. And, it's a strange way to try to divert the thread topic.

What do you think about about the rampant racism in certain unfluential circles of conservatism? Are you aghast or is it just another MAGA day?

 

[wing2000]

Replacement Theory? What kind of …. Human…. promotes this?

Tucker Carlson.

 

[cow451]

Tucker Carlson.

I’m shocked! Shocked, I say.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Authorities say the suspected Buffalo supermarket shooter traveled from hours away.
The suspect, Payton Gendron, an 18-year-old White man, was charged with first-degree murder, Buffalo City Court Chief Judge Craig Hannah told CNN

The FBI is investigating the shooting as both a hate crime and a case of racially motivated violent extremism, said Stephen Belongia, FBI special agent in charge of the Buffalo field office.

A security guard inside the store who was a retired Buffalo police officer shot the suspect. But because the suspect wore heavy armor, the bullets did not have any effect, Gramaglia said.

The suspect shot and killed the security guard and continued working his way through the store, the commissioner said.

---

Elsewhere: Gendron included his name in the manifesto [so it would appear the manifesto is genuinely his]

 

[Jamdoc]

I'm guessing by that, they mean "White Conservative Christian" (or someone who's willing to kowtow to what White conservative Christians want).

This topic gets extremely messy in the US.

US is a unique country in that it's a nation founded on a set of ideas rather than on some sort of ethnic or racial identity. For instance, one can "become an American", I could move to Japan, live there for 20 years, and nobody would consider me to be Japanese.

Incidental overlap obfuscates the situation. Some Americans see people from other countries coming here (with different sets of values), and fail to make the distinction between the values themselves vs. the immutable characteristics the people happen to have, and start to treat them interchangeably or attribute one to the other.


That's one aspect that other countries (even ones that are far more progressive than the US) have understood is that without some sort of common social fabric or shared set of ideas, it's going to be a rough road. Which is why a lot of the more progressive countries have far stricter immigration requirements than we have.

The rub is that those countries don't have any sort of claim to being a "melting pot" or a "place where anyone can come and live how they see fit"...that still is our "claim to fame" so to speak. If we implemented the type of strict immigration requirements that places like France, Finland, Sweden, or Japan have, a lot of people would be opposed to that and say "that goes against what this country was founded on!" (and they'd be right)

It's tough to balance the "open door"/"anyone can come and be a part of this" mentality with the type of social cohesion a nation needs in order to function with minimal conflict.

He was not at all Christian.
I haven't read the manifesto myself but apparently he rejected Christianity, which is actually common among White Nationalists because White Nationalism and Christ are incompatible with each other. Now "Cultural Christianity" might be "compatible" with White Nationalism, in the sense of identifying with an ethnic group with the most common religion of that ethnic group. But the actual belief system of Christianity (we're all of one blood descended from the sons of Noah) is incompatible with racism, so actual Christianity has 0 problem with legal immigration, "interracial" marriage, and all mankind being created equal in the eyes of God.

Could be hearsay that he rejected Christianity (I think it was Mike Cernovich that tweeted about it, not the greatest source himself), but given his actions? I'd say he did not know Christ.

 

[Jamdoc]

I think CRT is thing that "already racist" people cling to as their excuse or justification in many cases.

That being said, some of the interpretations of CRT are so slanted and historically inaccurate that it definitely feeds the trolls, so to speak.

If you get a group of people who are already exhibiting certain "white supremacist tendencies", and push for ideologies that are basically tantamount to "white people suck", it's easy to see how people like that could glom onto that and make it their "new thing to fight against" or excuse for hating "group XYZ"

For instance, if you had a group of people who had a chip on their shoulder about vegans, and public schools started introducing content that was basically saying "anyone who eats beef or chicken is destroying the planet, and should be chastised", that would be all it would take to make them lash out.

I find that CRT goes backwards, against the ideals that Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. had a dream about.
Instead of working towards a society that didn't judge by the color of skin, CRT puts primacy on skin color, so yeah, it's a problem, and should be rejected. We need to ditch tribalism as a whole.

Galatians 3

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[cow451]

I find that CRT goes backwards, against the ideals that Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. had a dream about.
Instead of working towards a society that didn't judge by the color of skin, CRT puts primacy on skin color, so yeah, it's a problem, and should be rejected. We need to ditch tribalism as a whole.

Galatians 3

The shooter wasn’t into CRT. So how is this relevant?