A Literal Theistic Evolutionary Reading of Genesis 1

[SkovandOfMitzae]

(signs). The Bible is how we arrived to the modern era of science. Who do you think those scientists were that founded and established modern science? Were they all atheists? Nope. They were all Biblical creationists. So the knowledge of God led mankind to modern science. The Bible is true history, moreso than any other document in the world.

There are over 68 globe earth verses in the Bible. The early Church, from 1st century Clement of Rome on up, all read globe earth from the Bible. There is simply no evidence anywhere that the Bible teaches flat earth. That flat earth allegation is something atheists have tried to use over the decades to discredit the Bible. Even now that the flat earth movement is dead, atheists continue with flat earth allegations.
View attachment 315680

View attachment 315681

There are zero globe verses in the Bible. How about picking 2-3 and we go through them.

I’m not an atheist. I’m a Christian. Atheism plays no role in anything I’ve stated. That’s just an attempt to deflect the conversation. All the talk about “ faiths of early scientists “ and ect… all of it is irrelevant.

 

[Halbhh]

I know this view and used to consider it as a strong possibility. So this view is not new to me. Even today, many creationists hold to the same view you do. But I believe it deviates from the actual Genesis account. Could it be true? I suppose it could be. So I am in no position to say for absolute certain that this view on creation isn't true. However, it does contradict the order of creation and makes Day 4 an oddity among the 6 Days of creation. Day 1, Day 2, Day 3, Day 5, Day 6 are all literal. But then they say Day 4 was not literal but it really happened on Day 1. So why, then, didn't God just say He created the sun, moon and stars on Day 1?

Good questions from that point of view. Let's try something that might be difficult, or easy, to you.

I'm used to doing it, so I have practice, and it's become easy over time.

Let's read without a point of view for a while.

As if reading fresh for the first time, without any preconceptions at all.

Ok, when ready...:

Going to try to read with as little preconception as it is possible to have (for me, I can get to zero):
========================

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

(All the universe!)

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

------------------
Now, if you don't have a viewpoint, and you just read the words, then...

All the Universe is created in verse 1, and the Earth.

Next, we simply read in verse 2 that Earth existed with a formless look, and was like or was a water world -- oceans are a formless surface constantly in motion, waves....

And dark. That's all just the words of verse 2 read in the most simple way. ( "simple" = with the least external ideas and preconceptions)

And then in verse 3, God brings light down onto the Earth, and this light is onto Earth in particular -- the location we are at in this telling -- so it's not about the light elsewhere in the more distant parts of the Universe, (which has several kinds of light)....but light down onto Earth itself enough to make what we now call "day".

We read in verses 4 and 5 that the day and night cycle begins.

Now, the least complex way to read this would be that Earth is now lit and has a full fledged night and day cycle just like we do now. It's just the words taken without extra ideas.

While one could theorize some more complex and esoteric stuff like God made a special temporary light instead of the sun (as I heard from one person once), the most simple way to read it is we have night and day happening -- and that in our everyday experience means that the sun is shining on Earth and Earth is rotating, and thus you have

"And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. "

Trying to continue to just the words read in the least complex way. (don't worry, day 4 is coming along soon too)

But having a day and night cycle does not mean that the sun giving the light would be visible, or the moon, or the stars. To see them when you are on the Earth one needs a cloudless sky. All of us have experienced days in a row (or maybe most all of us if not all) where we didn't see the sun or stars due to clouds.

The next verse can be hard to read simply, so let's see several translations:

Genesis 1:6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters, to separate the waters from the waters."

New International Version
And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.”

New Living Translation
Then God said, “Let there be a space between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.”

English Standard Version
And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”

But the next 2 verses help:

7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

Ah! this 'vault' or 'expanse' or 'space' is actually just the 'sky' above our heads, what we today call the atmosphere.

It seems the simplest way to read this to me is to think of it as the air before being:

Before: air full of rain/water/mist/fog ==> which would have no clear boundary -- nothing is separated. Nothing is distinct.

After: the air clears enough to see through to great distances up to high clouds and distant ocean surface.

A clear separation happens so that the waters below -- on the surface of Earth, become clearly distinct and seeable -- you can see them. And you can see far above what might be with swirling clouds or mist above. Or as in the text, "waters above".

Just the simplest way to read it I can think of here.

So, now, for the first time, one can see there are oceans and some amount of clear air one can see through, and then higher above we can see something that might be clouds high above, and all 3 are distinct and separate to the eye.

For the first time. The waters above have been separated from the waters below.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

The first visible dry land appears from the oceans!
!
Praise the Lord.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. [notice we read it is "good" now the 3rd time, and on the 3rd day, a repeating message -- this is a good place for us] 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so.

The lights above are now visible! You can see through the air, the 'sky' the stars and moon and the sun, it's now visible, because as we just read before, the air had cleared enough to see a distinct ocean, water below, and above swirling water/clouds up higher, and now on day 4, the air/sky has cleared even more.

16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

This is an explanation for why we have the Sun, moon and stars, instead of just a gray uniform sky that has day and night without any sun or moon or stars....

We could have had just a gray sky, and still would need to learn to turn to God in faith...just like now. But we have more than just a blank gray sky, we have a way to notice the passage of time, of the day, of the months, of the year....!

Very, very helpful to a mortal being that won't live here in this body forever, and needs to notice they have limited time, and time is passing.

 

[Ragdoll]

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

(All the universe!)

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

------------------
Now, if you don't have a viewpoint, and you just read the words, then...

All the Universe is created in verse 1, and the Earth.

I agree.

Next, we simply read in verse 2 that Earth existed with a formless look, and was like or was a water world -- oceans are a formless surface constantly in motion, waves....

And dark. That's all just the words of verse 2 read in the most simple way. ( "simple" = with the least external ideas and preconceptions)

The earth had no form or shape. This is what is meant in both the Hebrew and the Greek. Yes, it was a watery blob like abyss.

And then in verse 3, God brings light down onto the Earth, and this light is onto Earth in particular -- the location we are at in this telling -- so it's not about the light elsewhere in the more distant parts of the Universe, (which has several kinds of light)....but light down onto Earth itself enough to make what we now call "day".

We read in verses 4 and 5 that the day and night cycle begins.

I interpret verse 3 as being the earth's core. This gives the earth both life and shape. The day-night cycle in verses 4-5 are gauged by the earth's first full rotation as a spherical planet. This is also how the ancients understood it.

Now, the least complex way to read this would be that Earth is now lit and has a full fledged night and day cycle just like we do now. It's just the words taken without extra ideas.

Its not completed yet. God is still creating the day-night cycle. But the earth now has rotation and each day is gauged by one full rotation of the earth.

While one could theorize some more complex and esoteric stuff like God made a special temporary light instead of the sun (as I heard from one person once), the most simple way to read it is we have night and day happening -- and that in our everyday experience means that the sun is shining on Earth and Earth is rotating, and thus you have

"And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. "

Definitely not a temporary light. We still have the light in the center of the earth. Without the core our planet cannot sustain life. The core is light and that light provides life to the earth as well as rotation. This is a significant part of what God is doing on Day 1. He first makes the earth come alive by giving it a heart beat, per se. The core of the earth can figuratively represent the earth's heart and cardio system. The electromagnetism of the core also helps protect the earth. It makes sense to me that God would start with that during creation before moving onward to other things.

The next verse can be hard to read simply, so let's see several translations:

Genesis 1:6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters, to separate the waters from the waters."

New International Version
And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.”

New Living Translation
Then God said, “Let there be a space between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.”

English Standard Version
And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”

But the next 2 verses help:

7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

Ah! this 'vault' or 'expanse' or 'space' is actually just the 'sky' above our heads, what we today call the atmosphere.

The best word selection for raqiya is expanse and then space. Gen.1:6-8 is all about the earthly sky and the space (i.e., expanse) between ocean and sky.

It seems the simplest way to read this to me is to think of it as the air before being:

Before: air full of rain/water/mist/fog ==> which would have no clear boundary -- nothing is separated. Nothing is distinct.

After: the air clears enough to see through to great distances up to high clouds and distant ocean surface.

A clear separation happens so that the waters below -- on the surface of Earth, become clearly distinct and seeable -- you can see them. And you can see far above what might be with swirling clouds or mist above. Or as in the text, "waters above".

Just the simplest way to read it I can think of here.

So, now, for the first time, one can see there are oceans and some amount of clear air one can see through, and then higher above we can see something that might be clouds high above, and all 3 are distinct and separate to the eye.

For the first time. The waters above have been separated from the waters below.

Right. The earth is no longer a big water ball. There is now a distinction between ocean, air, and sky (i.e., earth's atmosphere).

9

And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

The first visible dry land appears from the oceans!
!
Praise the Lord.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. [notice we read it is "good" now the 3rd time, and on the 3rd day, a repeating message -- this is a good place for us] 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

Had God not created the core there would be no vegetation on earth. God creates in stages so the His blueprint of the earth will work out.

14

And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so.

The lights above are now visible! You can see through the air, the 'sky' the stars and moon and the sun, it's now visible, because as we just read before, the air had cleared enough to see a distinct ocean, water below, and above swirling water/clouds up higher, and now on day 4, the air/sky has cleared even more.

The translation is bad as it should say the heavens.

16

God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

This is an explanation for why we have the Sun, moon and stars, instead of just a gray uniform sky that has day and night without any sun or moon or stars....

We could have had just a gray sky, and still would need to learn to turn to God in faith...just like now. But we have more than just a blank gray sky, we have a way to notice the passage of time, of the day, of the months, of the year....!

Very, very helpful to a mortal being that won't live here in this body forever, and needs to notice they have limited time, and time is passing.

I see where you are going with this and I'm sure others agree with this interpretation. But you did not use good translations through your commentary. When it comes to Genesis chapter 1, strictly speaking, it's best to use the MEV or ESV for that chapter. Also, it's a stretch to think that God placed the stars in the expanse of the heavens if He had already created them before Day 4. I just see nothing wrong with God creating the sun, moon and stars on Day 4. I will not look down on you for taking a different point of view. You're view on these 4 days is not something I find offensive. There is a plausibility behind the thought. I just think its unnecessary to commit to what appears to be some fancy mental gymnastics just to make the sun created on Day 1. I know many respectable creationists hold this view on the first 4 Days. Again, I'm not offended by this. I think it is better to accept the context as it reads and understand it for what it is. This core interpretation may be new but it follows the context perfectly. And with that interpretation, there is no reason to believe the sun was created on Day 1. For that would have been destructive to the earth.

The most popular and widely accepted interpretation of Gen.1:3 is that God created electromagnetic energy and photons. This is also very plausible and not offensive. The problem I see with that interpretation is that it does not follow the context between verse 2 and verses 4-5. It does not provide a reason why the earth went from shapeless to a rotating sphere. But if one accepts the core then there is harmony between verse 2 and verses 4-5. Then at this point the sun on Day 4 doesn't matter. The earth by Day 4 is well protected by the magnetic field so the sun will not destroy the earth.

 

[Ragdoll]

There are zero globe verses in the Bible. How about picking 2-3 and we go through them.

I’m not an atheist. I’m a Christian. Atheism plays no role in anything I’ve stated. That’s just an attempt to deflect the conversation. All the talk about “ faiths of early scientists “ and ect… all of it is irrelevant.

Lets just start with some simple lessons taught from these simple memes. Then we can go on further.

 

[SkovandOfMitzae]

Lets just start with some simple lessons taught from these simple memes. Then we can go on further.

View attachment 315692

View attachment 315696

View attachment 315698

View attachment 315699

View attachment 315700

So again, not a single one of those verses talk about a globe. Even the Hebrew word that they bring up means disc, not globe. Circle and globe are very different. Ancient Jewish people did not know the earth was a globe.

 

[SkovandOfMitzae]

So im not going to answer all of them. That’s why I asked for you to select a few. This is the issue with meme logic.

So the first one they mentioned is this. Proverbs 8:31. This is what it actually says.

Proverbs 8:31 Hebrew Text Analysis

Here is a handful of translations.
New International Version
rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.

New Living Translation
And how happy I was with the world he created; how I rejoiced with the human family!

English Standard Version
rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the children of man.

Berean Study Bible
I was rejoicing in His whole world, delighting together in the sons of men.

King James Bible
Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

New King James Version
Rejoicing in His inhabited world, And my delight was with the sons of men.

New American Standard Bible
Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And havingmy delight in the sons of mankind.

NASB 1995
Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.

NASB 1977
Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And havingmy delight in the sons of men.

Amplified Bible
Rejoicing in the world, His inhabited earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.

Christian Standard Bible
I was rejoicing in his inhabited world, delighting in the children of Adam.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I was rejoicing in His inhabited world, delighting in the human race.”

American Standard Version
Rejoicing in his habitable earth; And my delight was with the sons of men.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
I have been rejoicing in the world of his Earth and I have been glorying in the sons of man.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
For he rejoiced when he had completed the world, and rejoiced among the children of men.

Contemporary English Version
I was pleased with his world and pleased with its people.


you’ll notice nothing says anything about a globe. The word there means “ the land “. It’s called the land because Jews referred to their understanding of the world as “ the land “ which was opposed to “ the water “. Ancient Jewish people did not think of earth as a globe. They only thought of it as a circle because of perception , especially of celestial bodies. So the first meme is simply wrong. Seems like they are trying to rely on bad translations from a few hundred years ago or something.

 

[SkovandOfMitzae]

The second meme , and really almost all of them brings up this word.

Strong's Hebrew: 2328. חוּג (chug) -- to draw around, make a circle

that word never means globe. It always means circle. 2d like a drawing or inscription.

Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth; its dwellers are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Above the circle…..

 

[Job 33:6]

Lets just start with some simple lessons taught from these simple memes. Then we can go on further.

View attachment 315692

View attachment 315696

View attachment 315698

View attachment 315699

View attachment 315700

The second meme , and really almost all of them brings up this word.

Strong's Hebrew: 2328. חוּג (chug) -- to draw around, make a circle

that word never means globe. It always means circle. 2d like a drawing or inscription.

Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth; its dwellers are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Above the circle…..

Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth; its dwellers are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

And there was a sound from above the expanse that was above their heads, and when they stood they lowered their wings.
Ezekiel 1:25 LEB


Ezekiel 1:26
Above the large covering that was over their heads there was something that looked like a throne, and looked like it was made of sapphire. Sitting on the throne was what looked like a man.

And I looked, and look! On the expanse that was above the head of the cherubim something like a stone of sapphire, and like the appearance of the shape of a throne it appeared above them.
Ezekiel 10:1 LEB

Thick clouds are a covering for him, so that he does not see; and he walks about on (on top of or above) the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14 LEB

He sits above the circle, and not only that, but people look up above the circle "over their heads" and they see him. God in human form.

The Chuwg couldn't possibly mean the orbit of the planet around the sun else people would not see God, in human form, sitting above it (lest they be peering into deep deep space without a telescope). Much further, scripture in Ezekiel 10:1 tells us exactly what the circle is, it says "on the expanse" ie the raqia or solid dome above the earth. Not only that, but they also hear a sound from above the raqia as well. Sounds do not travel through deep space because there is no atmospheric medium for which sound could travel. Also, Job notes thick clouds around Him, suggesting that God in human form was not somewhere in outer space but that the firmament rested below His feet, which He walked on, immediately above the observers, just as is depicted in the following images:

This interpretation is further verified in Job where God walks about on the dome of heaven, a solid raqia structure.

Strong's Dictionary
Definition
circle, circuit, compass
(BDB) vault (of the heavens), as in raqia.

Verdict = the circle of the earth is the raqia, or a solid dome immediately above the heads of the ancient Hebrews. It has nothing to do with Earth's orbital pattern or wobble.

 

[Halbhh]

I agree.



The earth had no form or shape. This is what is meant in both the Hebrew and the Greek. Yes, it was a watery blob like abyss.



I interpret verse 3 as being the earth's core. This gives the earth both life and shape. The day-night cycle in verses 4-5 are gauged by the earth's first full rotation as a spherical planet. This is also how the ancients understood it.



Its not completed yet. God is still creating the day-night cycle. But the earth now has rotation and each day is gauged by one full rotation of the earth.



Definitely not a temporary light. We still have the light in the center of the earth. Without the core our planet cannot sustain life. The core is light and that light provides life to the earth as well as rotation. This is a significant part of what God is doing on Day 1. He first makes the earth come alive by giving it a heart beat, per se. The core of the earth can figuratively represent the earth's heart and cardio system. The electromagnetism of the core also helps protect the earth. It makes sense to me that God would start with that during creation before moving onward to other things.



The best word selection for raqiya is expanse and then space. Gen.1:6-8 is all about the earthly sky and the space (i.e., expanse) between ocean and sky.

It seems the simplest way to read this to me is to think of it as the air before being:



Right. The earth is no longer a big water ball. There is now a distinction between ocean, air, and sky (i.e., earth's atmosphere).


Had God not created the core there would be no vegetation on earth. God creates in stages so the His blueprint of the earth will work out.


The translation is bad as it should say the heavens.


I see where you are going with this and I'm sure others agree with this interpretation. But you did not use good translations through your commentary. When it comes to Genesis chapter 1, strictly speaking, it's best to use the MEV or ESV for that chapter. Also, it's a stretch to think that God placed the stars in the expanse of the heavens if He had already created them before Day 4. I just see nothing wrong with God creating the sun, moon and stars on Day 4. I will not look down on you for taking a different point of view. You're view on these 4 days is not something I find offensive. There is a plausibility behind the thought. I just think its unnecessary to commit to what appears to be some fancy mental gymnastics just to make the sun created on Day 1. I know many respectable creationists hold this view on the first 4 Days. Again, I'm not offended by this. I think it is better to accept the context as it reads and understand it for what it is. This core interpretation may be new but it follows the context perfectly. And with that interpretation, there is no reason to believe the sun was created on Day 1. For that would have been destructive to the earth.

The most popular and widely accepted interpretation of Gen.1:3 is that God created electromagnetic energy and photons. This is also very plausible and not offensive. The problem I see with that interpretation is that it does not follow the context between verse 2 and verses 4-5. It does not provide a reason why the earth went from shapeless to a rotating sphere. But if one accepts the core then there is harmony between verse 2 and verses 4-5. Then at this point the sun on Day 4 doesn't matter. The earth by Day 4 is well protected by the magnetic field so the sun will not destroy the earth.

Yes, we will every person have somewhat unique views when we look at every tiny bit (even though we agree on key things and even most things) and I'm also not offended by other theories others have. In fact the only reason I even discuss creation theories at all is usually only try to help (indirectly) non believers by hopefully reminding some believers that talk of such theories a lot that a particular common theory (let's call it "B.2.3" ) is a theory -- that they should not teach that their theory B.2.3 or for that matter B.3.4 either is scripture when in reality it's a mix of bits of scripture and a lot of extra theory that isn't itself scripture.

Such a crucial thing to point out.

Why? --> For the sake of the lost, so that the lost can realize they don't have to believe theory B.2.3 in particular, or B.3.4 instead -- either one! -- in order to take the leap of faith to believe in God or the Bible....!!!!

That's Life or Death, after all, eternal Life or the 'second death' is at stake.

For the sake of the lost, that we not put barriers in their way to faith in God.

Since salvation is through faith in Christ, not faith in theory B.2.3....

So that's why I come to these threads.

I'm not at all offended by several or many of the other theories either, just like you.

So, I'm content with, actually I like, your reply.

But I'd like to clarify one part of what wrote above, which you objected on an aspect -- "a stretch to think that God placed the stars in the expanse of the heavens if He had already created them before Day 4." ---> As I read it, God creating the Universe in verse 1, before the special day 1 for Earth special creation -- meaning all the stars were already existing before day 4 means that here:

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,

Means that God is pointing out the now-visible in the vision lights of the stars are "good" for us -- in that they help us notice the signs of the passing seasons, and feel viscerally that very key thing of realizing our finite mortal time here is passing.... (It's not saying some other meaning like only now is God distributing the stars -- but instead is saying the stars are meant to show us the passing days/seasons/years)

But, enjoyable discussion!

 

[Ragdoll]

Yes, we will every person have somewhat unique views when we look at every tiny bit (even though we agree on key things and even most things) and I'm also not offended by other theories others have. In fact the only reason I even discuss creation theories at all is usually only try to help (indirectly) non believers by hopefully reminding some believers that talk of such theories a lot that a particular common theory (let's call it "B.2.3" ) is a theory -- that they should not teach that their theory B.2.3 or for that matter B.3.4 either is scripture when in reality it's a mix of bits of scripture and a lot of extra theory that isn't itself scripture.

Such a crucial thing to point out.

Why? --> For the sake of the lost, so that the lost can realize they don't have to believe theory B.2.3 in particular, or B.3.4 instead -- either one! -- in order to take the leap of faith to believe in God or the Bible....!!!!

That's Life or Death, after all, eternal Life or the 'second death' is at stake.

For the sake of the lost, that we not put barriers in their way to faith in God.

Since salvation is through faith in Christ, not faith in theory B.2.3....

So that's why I come to these threads.

I'm not at all offended by several or many of the other theories either, just like you.

So, I'm content with, actually I like, your reply.

But I'd like to clarify one part of what wrote above, which you objected on an aspect -- "a stretch to think that God placed the stars in the expanse of the heavens if He had already created them before Day 4." ---> As I read it, God creating the Universe in verse 1, before the special day 1 for Earth special creation -- meaning all the stars were already existing before day 4 means that here:

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,

Means that God is pointing out the now-visible in the vision lights of the stars are "good" for us -- in that they help us notice the signs of the passing seasons, and feel viscerally that very key thing of realizing our finite mortal time here is passing.... (It's not saying some other meaning like only now is God distributing the stars -- but instead is saying the stars are meant to show us the passing days/seasons/years)

But, enjoyable discussion!

"God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also" (Gen.1:16).

So here we see that God isn't just waiting for the stars to show their light, but actually made the stars on Day 4.

 

[Ragdoll]

Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth; its dwellers are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

And there was a sound from above the expanse that was above their heads, and when they stood they lowered their wings.
Ezekiel 1:25 LEB


Ezekiel 1:26
Above the large covering that was over their heads there was something that looked like a throne, and looked like it was made of sapphire. Sitting on the throne was what looked like a man.

And I looked, and look! On the expanse that was above the head of the cherubim something like a stone of sapphire, and like the appearance of the shape of a throne it appeared above them.
Ezekiel 10:1 LEB

Thick clouds are a covering for him, so that he does not see; and he walks about on (on top of or above) the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14 LEB

He sits above the circle, and not only that, but people look up above the circle "over their heads" and they see him. God in human form.

The Chuwg couldn't possibly mean the orbit of the planet around the sun else people would not see God, in human form, sitting above it (lest they be peering into deep deep space without a telescope). Much further, scripture in Ezekiel 10:1 tells us exactly what the circle is, it says "on the expanse" ie the raqia or solid dome above the earth. Not only that, but they also hear a sound from above the raqia as well. Sounds do not travel through deep space because there is no atmospheric medium for which sound could travel. Also, Job notes thick clouds around Him, suggesting that God in human form was not somewhere in outer space but that the firmament rested below His feet, which He walked on, immediately above the observers, just as is depicted in the following images:

This interpretation is further verified in Job where God walks about on the dome of heaven, a solid raqia structure.

View attachment 315706
View attachment 315707
View attachment 315708
View attachment 315709

Strong's Dictionary
Definition
circle, circuit, compass
(BDB) vault (of the heavens), as in raqia.

Verdict = the circle of the earth is the raqia, or a solid dome immediately above the heads of the ancient Hebrews. It has nothing to do with Earth's orbital pattern or wobble.

BDB lexicon is not a very good one for starters. The Strong's tells you that the earth is a moving sphere. It means circle, circuit, compass. In Greek that same word translates to gyros which means round, circumference, rotation, horizon. The compass means circumference, circle refers to a Great Circle of a sphere, and circuit means rotation, an earth that moves in a circle.

 

[Ragdoll]

So im not going to answer all of them. That’s why I asked for you to select a few. This is the issue with meme logic.

So the first one they mentioned is this. Proverbs 8:31. This is what it actually says.

Proverbs 8:31 Hebrew Text Analysis

Here is a handful of translations.
New International Version
rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.

New Living Translation
And how happy I was with the world he created; how I rejoiced with the human family!

English Standard Version
rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the children of man.

Berean Study Bible
I was rejoicing in His whole world, delighting together in the sons of men.

King James Bible
Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

New King James Version
Rejoicing in His inhabited world, And my delight was with the sons of men.

New American Standard Bible
Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And havingmy delight in the sons of mankind.

NASB 1995
Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.

NASB 1977
Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And havingmy delight in the sons of men.

Amplified Bible
Rejoicing in the world, His inhabited earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.

Christian Standard Bible
I was rejoicing in his inhabited world, delighting in the children of Adam.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I was rejoicing in His inhabited world, delighting in the human race.”

American Standard Version
Rejoicing in his habitable earth; And my delight was with the sons of men.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
I have been rejoicing in the world of his Earth and I have been glorying in the sons of man.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
For he rejoiced when he had completed the world, and rejoiced among the children of men.

Contemporary English Version
I was pleased with his world and pleased with its people.


you’ll notice nothing says anything about a globe. The word there means “ the land “. It’s called the land because Jews referred to their understanding of the world as “ the land “ which was opposed to “ the water “. Ancient Jewish people did not think of earth as a globe. They only thought of it as a circle because of perception , especially of celestial bodies. So the first meme is simply wrong. Seems like they are trying to rely on bad translations from a few hundred years ago or something.

Proverbs 8:31 - English

"As for the roude copase of his worlde, I make it ioyfull, for my delyte is to be amoge the children of men" (1535 Coverdale Bible).

"As for the rounde compase of his worlde, I make it ioyfull: for my delyte is to be among the chyldren of men" (1537 Matthew's Bible).

"As for the rounde compase of thys worlde, I make it ioyfull: for my delyte is to be amonge the chyldren of men" (1539 Great Bible).

"As for the rounde compasse of this worlde I make it ioyfull: for my delite is to be among the chyldren of men" (1568 Bishop's Bible).

"Smiling in the habitable globe of his earth; and my delight with the sons of man" (1876 Julia E. Smith Bible).

Phrase: round compass of this world

Latin Vulgate: ludens in orbe terrarum; et deliciae meae esse cum filiis hominum.

Word: orbe

French

Etymology: From Latin orbis.

Noun: orbe m (plural orbes)
1. (obsolete) circle
2. orb (spherical body)
3. globus cruciger

Latin

Noun: orbe
1. ablative singular of orbis
orbe - Wiktionary

Phrase: orbe terrarum

How to say "world globe" in Latin:

"orbis terrarum"
How to say "world globe" in Latin (wordhippo.com)


Greek Septuagint: ὅτε εὐφραίνετο τὴν οἰκουμένην συντελέσας καὶ ἐνευφραίνετο ἐν υἱοῗς ἀνθρώπων

Word: οἰκουμένην - Strong's G3625 οἰκουμένη (oikouménē)

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible, G3625 οἰκουμένη (oikouménē),

"G3625 οἰκουμένη [15x] oikouménē, oy-kou-men'-ay; fem. part. pres. pass. of 3611 (as a noun, by impl. of 1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; spec. the Rom. empire: -- earth [1x], world [14x].
Oikoumene, (1) "the inhabited earth", is used (1a) of the whole inhabited world, Mt 24:14; Lk 4:5; 21:26; Rom 10:18; Heb 1:6; Rev 3:10; 16:14, (2) of the Roman Empire, (2a) the world as viewed by the writer or speaker; Lk 2:1; Acts 11:28; 24:5; (2b) by metonymy, of its inhabitants, Acts 17:6; 19:27; (3) the inhabited world in the coming age, Heb 2:5."


Hebrew Masoretic Text:

עשׂה ארץ בכחו מכין תבל בחכמתו ובתבונתו נטה שׁמים׃

Word: בתבל

Proverbs 8:31 is the only verse that I know that carries this variant of têbêl.

"in the world, in the universe, the globe"
בתבל - Translation into English - examples Hebrew | Reverso Context

Sentence Examples:

1. "False statements and press leaks about Oswald circulate the globe"
2. "This is the Daily Planet, read in virtually ever country across the globe"
בתבל - Translation into English - examples Hebrew | Reverso Context

More examples:
around the globe - Translation into Hebrew - examples English | Reverso Context

Hebrew Lexicons for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible.

"8398. têbêl, tay-bale'; from H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension, the globe; by implication, its inhabitants; specifically, a particular land, as Babylonia, Palestine:—world [35x] habitable part, [1x].
The word signified, first, the solid material on which man dwells, and that was formed, founded, established, and disposed by God; and secondly, the inhabitants thereof. See TWOT 835h; BDB--385c, 1061d."

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon

Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.

TWOT 835h תֵּבֵל têbêl, tay-bale'; world.

"This noun is used in three basic situations. First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth, including the atmosphere or heavens (cf. Ps.89:12; II Sam 22:16; et al.). têbêl is often in parallelism or apposition with 'eres (I Sam 2:8; Isa.26:9; 34:1; et al.) when 'eres is used in its broadest sense of "the world." The "world" was created by God, not false gods (Jer.10:12; Ps.93:1) and it belongs solely to him (Ps.24:1). God's eternality is illustrated by his existence before the creation of "world" (Ps.90:2) and his wisdom (perhaps a personification of Christ) was present prior to the world's creation (Prov. 8:26, 31). Creation itself gives a "worldwide" witness to God's glory (Ps.19:4 [H 5]) which should result in Yahweh's praise (Ps.98:2). Yahweh will judge this "world," making it empty (Isa.24:4), though in the millennium God will cause Israel to blossom and fill the whole world with her fruit (Isa.27:6).
Second, têbêl is sometime limited to "countries" or "the inhabitable world." This meaning is more closely related to the root meaning. It refers to the world where crops are raised. This is observed in the judgment message against the king of Babylon (not Satan) for violently shaking the "world" or "inhabitable world" (Isa.13:11; 14:17). Lightning is said to enlighten the "world"---undoubtedly referring to a limited land area (Ps.77:18 [H 19]; 97:4).
Third, têbêl may also refer to the inhabitants living upon the whole earth. This is demonstrated by the parallelism of têbêl with I' umim (Ps.9:8 [H 9]) and 'ammim (Ps.96:13; 98:9). The context of these references is Yahweh's judgment upon the world's inhabitants---a judgment both executed in righteousness and instructive of Yahweh's righteousness (Isa.26:9; 34:1).
In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed. Everything belongs to Yahweh as his creation (Ps.50:12). Yahweh alone controls this world (Job 34:13; Nah 1:5) and his power is over all the earth which always responds to his presence (Job 37:12; Ps.97:4)".

 

[Halbhh]

"God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also" (Gen.1:16).

So here we see that God isn't just waiting for the stars to show their light, but actually made the stars on Day 4.

God made them, but it doesn't say "And on Day 4 God made the lights." but it says ""God made two great lights" and here's where Isaac Newton pointed out what seems obvious once you consider it: that this isn't about sequence, but about meaning and overall intent and purpose, which are the things the text does actually emphasize in wording. (and if you notice earlier in that previous post I was pointing out what happened on Day 3 -- that Day 3 is key also to Day 4 -- that Day 3 is crucial to see how that fits together: visibility: what can be seen at that moment). We are being shown things and told how they are good.

See, we are reminded that God created these stars/planets for us. So that our home would be "good".

 

[SkovandOfMitzae]

Proverbs 8:31 - English

"As for the roude copase of his worlde, I make it ioyfull, for my delyte is to be amoge the children of men" (1535 Coverdale Bible).

"As for the rounde compase of his worlde, I make it ioyfull: for my delyte is to be among the chyldren of men" (1537 Matthew's Bible).

"As for the rounde compase of thys worlde, I make it ioyfull: for my delyte is to be amonge the chyldren of men" (1539 Great Bible).

"As for the rounde compasse of this worlde I make it ioyfull: for my delite is to be among the chyldren of men" (1568 Bishop's Bible).

"Smiling in the habitable globe of his earth; and my delight with the sons of man" (1876 Julia E. Smith Bible).

Phrase: round compass of this world

Latin Vulgate: ludens in orbe terrarum; et deliciae meae esse cum filiis hominum.

Word: orbe

French

Etymology: From Latin orbis.

Noun: orbe m (plural orbes)
1. (obsolete) circle
2. orb (spherical body)
3. globus cruciger

Latin

Noun: orbe
1. ablative singular of orbis
orbe - Wiktionary

Phrase: orbe terrarum

How to say "world globe" in Latin:

"orbis terrarum"
How to say "world globe" in Latin (wordhippo.com)


Greek Septuagint: ὅτε εὐφραίνετο τὴν οἰκουμένην συντελέσας καὶ ἐνευφραίνετο ἐν υἱοῗς ἀνθρώπων

Word: οἰκουμένην - Strong's G3625 οἰκουμένη (oikouménē)

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible, G3625 οἰκουμένη (oikouménē),

"G3625 οἰκουμένη [15x] oikouménē, oy-kou-men'-ay; fem. part. pres. pass. of 3611 (as a noun, by impl. of 1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; spec. the Rom. empire: -- earth [1x], world [14x].
Oikoumene, (1) "the inhabited earth", is used (1a) of the whole inhabited world, Mt 24:14; Lk 4:5; 21:26; Rom 10:18; Heb 1:6; Rev 3:10; 16:14, (2) of the Roman Empire, (2a) the world as viewed by the writer or speaker; Lk 2:1; Acts 11:28; 24:5; (2b) by metonymy, of its inhabitants, Acts 17:6; 19:27; (3) the inhabited world in the coming age, Heb 2:5."


Hebrew Masoretic Text:

עשׂה ארץ בכחו מכין תבל בחכמתו ובתבונתו נטה שׁמים׃

Word: בתבל

Proverbs 8:31 is the only verse that I know that carries this variant of têbêl.

"in the world, in the universe, the globe"
בתבל - Translation into English - examples Hebrew | Reverso Context

Sentence Examples:

1. "False statements and press leaks about Oswald circulate the globe"
2. "This is the Daily Planet, read in virtually ever country across the globe"
בתבל - Translation into English - examples Hebrew | Reverso Context

More examples:
around the globe - Translation into Hebrew - examples English | Reverso Context

Hebrew Lexicons for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible.

"8398. têbêl, tay-bale'; from H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension, the globe; by implication, its inhabitants; specifically, a particular land, as Babylonia, Palestine:—world [35x] habitable part, [1x].
The word signified, first, the solid material on which man dwells, and that was formed, founded, established, and disposed by God; and secondly, the inhabitants thereof. See TWOT 835h; BDB--385c, 1061d."

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
View attachment 315734

Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.

TWOT 835h תֵּבֵל têbêl, tay-bale'; world.

"This noun is used in three basic situations. First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth, including the atmosphere or heavens (cf. Ps.89:12; II Sam 22:16; et al.). têbêl is often in parallelism or apposition with 'eres (I Sam 2:8; Isa.26:9; 34:1; et al.) when 'eres is used in its broadest sense of "the world." The "world" was created by God, not false gods (Jer.10:12; Ps.93:1) and it belongs solely to him (Ps.24:1). God's eternality is illustrated by his existence before the creation of "world" (Ps.90:2) and his wisdom (perhaps a personification of Christ) was present prior to the world's creation (Prov. 8:26, 31). Creation itself gives a "worldwide" witness to God's glory (Ps.19:4 [H 5]) which should result in Yahweh's praise (Ps.98:2). Yahweh will judge this "world," making it empty (Isa.24:4), though in the millennium God will cause Israel to blossom and fill the whole world with her fruit (Isa.27:6).
Second, têbêl is sometime limited to "countries" or "the inhabitable world." This meaning is more closely related to the root meaning. It refers to the world where crops are raised. This is observed in the judgment message against the king of Babylon (not Satan) for violently shaking the "world" or "inhabitable world" (Isa.13:11; 14:17). Lightning is said to enlighten the "world"---undoubtedly referring to a limited land area (Ps.77:18 [H 19]; 97:4).
Third, têbêl may also refer to the inhabitants living upon the whole earth. This is demonstrated by the parallelism of têbêl with I' umim (Ps.9:8 [H 9]) and 'ammim (Ps.96:13; 98:9). The context of these references is Yahweh's judgment upon the world's inhabitants---a judgment both executed in righteousness and instructive of Yahweh's righteousness (Isa.26:9; 34:1).
In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed. Everything belongs to Yahweh as his creation (Ps.50:12). Yahweh alone controls this world (Job 34:13; Nah 1:5) and his power is over all the earth which always responds to his presence (Job 37:12; Ps.97:4)".

i only needed to skim through it. It’s mostly already been answered by previous posts. So again, not a single verse there even remotely indicates a globe. Ancient Jewish people did not even know the earth was a globe. We know for sure ancient Jewish people, Egyptians and Mesopotamians in general believes in a flat earth.

this is a decent key word search link of how the globe became popular. Tebel means world.

 

[Halbhh]

i only needed to skim through it. It’s mostly already been answered by previous posts. So again, not a single verse there even remotely indicates a globe. Ancient Jewish people did not even know the earth was a globe. We know for sure ancient Jewish people, Egyptians and Mesopotamians in general believes in a flat earth.

this is a decent key word search link of how the globe became popular. Tebel means world.

Scripture has more than a few things that are intentionally not explained in the verses where they happen/appear.

So that the meaning/purpose/nature/situation only becomes clear later, sometimes much later. Where it isn't even possible to understand it at that time it happened, but only in a (sometimes much) later time.

Would you like an example?

 

[SkovandOfMitzae]

Scripture has more than a few things that are intentionally not explained in the verses where they happen/appear.

So that the meaning/purpose/nature/situation only becomes clear later, sometimes much later. Where it isn't even possible to understand it at that time it happened, but only in a (sometimes much) later time.

Would you like an example?

Sure.
But nothing in the Bible is concordistic. We see theological truths becoming clear over time. Doctrine being fleshed out and prophecies being fulfilled.

but we don’t see unknown science being given to the Jews only to have it not understood for thousands of years.

for example.
Hebrews 11:3
New American Standard Bible

3 By faith we understand that the world has been created by the word of God so that what is seen has not been made out of things that are visible.

those verses are not about dna, energy or atoms and so on.

 

[Halbhh]

Sure.
But nothing in the Bible is concordistic. We see theological truths becoming clear over time. Doctrine being fleshed out and prophecies being fulfilled.

but we don’t see unknown science being given to the Jews only to have it not understood for thousands of years.

Well I haven't seen any science content -- nothing of geology, chemistry, physics, etc.

 

[Halbhh]

Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth; its dwellers are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Above the circle…..

We know of course (I know you'll agree) that God doesn't have to be at a location like 20 or 40 miles up in order to be able to see all the Earth! He's not limited in that way, of course. He can see everything at once, and it's such a beautiful metaphor that He 'He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth'

Even though we know perfectly well He's not limited by distance, geographic, visibility, houses, caves, under the earth, you name it: nothing can prevent his seeing.

It's such a wonderful passage:

9 You who bring good news to Zion,
go up on a high mountain.
You who bring good news to Jerusalem,
lift up your voice with a shout,
lift it up, do not be afraid;
say to the towns of Judah,
“Here is your God!”
10 See, the Sovereign Lord comes with power,
and he rules with a mighty arm.
See, his reward is with him,
and his recompense accompanies him.
11 He tends his flock like a shepherd:
He gathers the lambs in his arms
and carries them close to his heart;
he gently leads those that have young.

12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand,
or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens?
Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket,
or weighed the mountains on the scales
and the hills in a balance?
13 Who can fathom the Spirit of the Lord,
or instruct the Lord as his counselor?
14 Whom did the Lord consult to enlighten him,
and who taught him the right way?
Who was it that taught him knowledge,
or showed him the path of understanding?

15 Surely the nations are like a drop in a bucket;
they are regarded as dust on the scales;
he weighs the islands as though they were fine dust.
16 Lebanon is not sufficient for altar fires,
nor its animals enough for burnt offerings.
17 Before him all the nations are as nothing;
they are regarded by him as worthless
and less than nothing.

18 With whom, then, will you compare God?
To what image will you liken him?
19 As for an idol, a metalworker casts it,
and a goldsmith overlays it with gold
and fashions silver chains for it.
20 A person too poor to present such an offering
selects wood that will not rot;
they look for a skilled worker
to set up an idol that will not topple.

21 Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood since the earth was founded?
22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
23 He brings princes to naught
and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing.
24 No sooner are they planted,
no sooner are they sown,
no sooner do they take root in the ground,
than he blows on them and they wither,
and a whirlwind sweeps them away like chaff.

25 “To whom will you compare me?
Or who is my equal?” says the Holy One.
26 Lift up your eyes and look to the heavens:
Who created all these?
He who brings out the starry host one by one
and calls forth each of them by name.
Because of his great power and mighty strength,
not one of them is missing.

27 Why do you complain, Jacob?
Why do you say, Israel,
“My way is hidden from the Lord;
my cause is disregarded by my God”?
28 Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
The Lord is the everlasting God,
the Creator of the ends of the earth.
He will not grow tired or weary,
and his understanding no one can fathom.
29 He gives strength to the weary
and increases the power of the weak.
30 Even youths grow tired and weary,
and young men stumble and fall;
31 but those who hope in the Lord
will renew their strength.
They will soar on wings like eagles;
they will run and not grow weary,
they will walk and not be faint."

After you read it, perhaps it would be interesting to then count the number of metaphorical wordings.

 

[Ragdoll]

i only needed to skim through it. It’s mostly already been answered by previous posts. So again, not a single verse there even remotely indicates a globe. Ancient Jewish people did not even know the earth was a globe. We know for sure ancient Jewish people, Egyptians and Mesopotamians in general believes in a flat earth.

this is a decent key word search link of how the globe became popular. Tebel means world.

Yeah, just ignore all the Old Testament Hebrew Lexicons and pretend they're not there. Just ignore the Greek and Latin that also means globe. Tebel means the habitable globe.

The Bible is not the word of the Hebrews or other nations. The Bible is not the word of culture. It's the word of God. When you reduce the word of God to the word of men then you are committing yourself to error.


English Definition of World

English Definition of world from the 1828 Webster's Dictionary:

"1. The universe; the whole system of created globes or vast bodies of matter.
2. The earth; the terraqueous globe; sometimes called the lower world."
Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - World

Though even in our modern English "world" carries the globular meaning
World Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com

Even in English words are contextually applied depending how they are expressed. Any time the word "world" is used in connection with the whole earth along with it's inhabitants, it means globe.

The only English translations that truly get it right are the Tyndale Bibles. The Julia Smith Bible also gets it right. The err began with the oversimplification of tebel when the amateur Geneva scholars translated the Geneva Bible in 1560. About 93% of the KJV reads like the Geneva Bible, and the err made it into all other translations. It's an err because its an oversimplification that was fine at the time of translations but became more obsolete as English changed. But the word tebel means the habitable globe. It has always meant that. It means that in Hebrew, its means that in Greek and Latin, and it means that in English.

"For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: “I am the LORD, and there is no other" (Isaiah 45:18, KJV)


Word: תבל

"world, earth, globe"
תבל - Translation into English - examples Hebrew | Reverso Context

 

[Ragdoll]

God made them, but it doesn't say "And on Day 4 God made the lights." but it says ""God made two great lights" and here's where Isaac Newton pointed out what seems obvious once you consider it: that this isn't about sequence, but about meaning and overall intent and purpose, which are the things the text does actually emphasize in wording. (and if you notice earlier in that previous post I was pointing out what happened on Day 3 -- that Day 3 is key also to Day 4 -- that Day 3 is crucial to see how that fits together: visibility: what can be seen at that moment). We are being shown things and told how they are good.

See, we are reminded that God created these stars/planets for us. So that our home would be "good".

Yes, it literally says He made them on Day 4. It's right there in the passage. Newton was a great scientist and scholar, but he was also known for committing himself to blunders in exegesis. I personally prefer the works of the early church fathers over all modern thinkers. Because there you will find many things already interpreted and agreed upon by the whole church - things modern churches still dispute, but solved by the ancient church. You will know what they didn't understand and from there you can try to solved something. But they all agreed on the order of creation as far as I can remember.

Then it depends on what discipline you use in exegesis. I come from the discipline that the context matters and therefore interpretations must follow the context or something will be amiss. Now when I examine this explanation you're provided here about the stars only appearing on Day 4 but not created on Day 4, I see a context that deviates from the other Days of creation. To me this says that God did nothing on Day 4. I think it would have been much easier in this case just to say the sun, moon and stars were created on Day 1. But the context of creation does not say this. It does say that God made them on Day 4.

I personally think this is how it should be interpreted since the sun before the magnetic field means destruction to the earth. I believe God knew what He was doing. Modern science is still in its infancy and trusting the order based on evolution theory isn't worth trusting. Back in 2020, evolutionists had to quickly throw some rhetoric together to cover up a major flaw in evolution theory as it was being used on facebook to destroy early earth evolution. So evolutionists quickly threw some rhetoric together and said the magnetic field was always super-duper strong from beginning. The position they held prior to 2020 was the the core did not solidify until 500-million years ago and the magnetic field was very weak. Yet in the same breath they said that the earth was a water planet with early life forms evolving. But that is impossible from a real scientific point of view. This is why they quickly changed their view. They knew that by throwing some rhetoric together they could save the theory from shame and disgrace. You could even tell by the article that it was a quick rhetoric job they did just for the purpose of covering up the myth that an earth can be a water planet with early lifeforms without a magnetic field. This method is called the make-it-all-up-as-you-go kind of reasoning and I see this among evolutionists all the time.

Simply put, the sun before the earth is good science. In real science, a sun before the earth leads to the water of the earth being vaporized, an atmosphere being blown into space, and all early lifeforms vaporized. We could not live on this planet if the earth did not have a strong magnetic field. Apparently evolutionists did not known this until 2020.