So how is that BLM thing going?

[rturner76]

And which precinct is that specifically?

The 3rd

 

[ThatRobGuy]

People have only extended the upper limit. There are lots of people today earning only 25-35K, and they consider themselves "middle class." But there are also people earning $250K who also consider themselves middle class.

The people earning only 25-35K are not living better than people earning 25-35K sixty years ago.

Obviously in terms of inflation adjusted dollars, no...a person making 35k wouldn't be living as well as a person making 35k in 1960 (which would be like making an income well into the six figures today)

I'm referring to what was considered "middle class" and the lifestyles that went along with it.

An 950 sq ft home with 2-3 smaller bedrooms, one bathroom for everyone to share...one car in the driveway...90% of meals eaten at home, one vacation per year, one TV in the household. No A/C in most cases...

That would still be considered "middle class" back then.

That would hardly be considered middle class by today's standards.

A person making 35k could still have that today, but by today's standards, investopedia would define that as being much closer to "lower" than to "middle"
Which Income Class Are You?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

and you are trying to conflate the two

I don't see how I'm conflating anything...

"They're autonomous" has been the defense used by many people (much like it was with Antifa) whenever there are some bad actors flying their banner.

And they want to say "it's not directed by one person or group". Yet they still have a person with the title of "managing director", and someone's still making the decision on who does or doesn't get to be a chapter.

It's not hard to see how that formula works...

Trump (and Trump-supporting groups) did the same sort of thing. Get people whipped up into a frenzy with thinly veiled talking points about "who the enemy is", and when those people do something irrational like storm the capitol, claim "Well, I never told them to do that, they were acting on their own"

 

[ThatRobGuy]

By design by whom? "Black Lives Matter" developed as a meme. We were chanting it in the streets before it was the name of an organization, and people have chanted it that have no affiliation to said organization. It’s the rallying cry of a movement and anyone involved has experienced it as such. The fact that a few women decided to try and claim that motto as the name for their organization doesn’t change that. Did you read the letter the 10 chapters sent back in 2020?

I'm not doubting that different chapters have different strategic approaches. True for any group...

For instance, this was a bit of an unexpected collaboration between the Salt Lake City chapters of BLM and the Proud Boys, where they stood together and did a co-event.

...but overall, that's not the norm and I highly doubt either organization (as a whole) were thrilled about it.

Something being a "meme" doesn't negate or diminish the underlying largely monolithic mindset of the people who engage in it.

For instance, the Let's Go Brandon thing is/was a meme...but if you see someone with that slogan on their shirt, you can make some pretty safe assumptions about that person with regards to their ideological views, and 9 times out of 10, your assumption would be right.

The exception doesn't negate the rule.

 

[RDKirk]

Obviously in terms of inflation adjusted dollars, no...a person making 35k wouldn't be living as well as a person making 35k in 1960 (which would be like making an income well into the six figures today)

I'm referring to what was considered "middle class" and the lifestyles that went along with it.

An 950 sq ft home with 2-3 smaller bedrooms, one bathroom for everyone to share...one car in the driveway...90% of meals eaten at home, one vacation per year, one TV in the household. No A/C in most cases...

That would still be considered "middle class" back then.

That would hardly be considered middle class by today's standards.

A person making 35k could still have that today, but by today's standards, investopedia would define that as being much closer to "lower" than to "middle"
Which Income Class Are You?

With a household income of 25-35K, probably not going on vacation every year.

I noted during my military career that I did not live as well as my father had lived as I passed through the same ranks as my father, despite that military pay had risen in tandem with the cost of living in the meantime.

 

[SilverBear]

Seriously? You can barely miss it in the news.

“It is such a trip to hear the term ‘990,’” Cullors said during an event Friday, according to the Washington Examiner. She was referring to IRS Form 990, which charities are required to file every year to disclose their financial activities.

“I’m like, ugh. It’s, like, triggering,” she added, saying that she “actually did not know” what the form was before “all this happened.”

BLM co-founder: Financial disclosures ‘triggering’ and ‘unsafe’

This lady should not be running a non-profit due to incompetence, not because of race.

Are you aware that Cullors stepped down from her position over a year ago?

 

[SilverBear]

@SilverBear: to answer your question, though, BLM (the international organization) would have been asked that question for two reasons.

one, to point out that BLM's (again, the international organization) lack of interest in protesting black-on-black killings,

Citation?

because it does not suit their agenda,

Evidence

as the BLM founder have the aim of promoting Critical Theory (CT)

evidence?

and do not consider black-on-black crime relevant to that agenda of reforming western society based on DEI (Diversity, Equity and Inclusion).

citation?

two, the Ferguson effect and defunding of police forces.

Ferguson effect - Wikipedia

your reference also says that there is no evidence that the Ferguson effect even exists

the ideology of BLM (the organization) has always guided it and that ideology thinks that black-on-black crime can only go away once the existing system gets overthrown based on CT. to that ends,

citation?

it has worked towards establishing CT with the deaths of George Floyd and others used as leverage for that purpose.

Evidence?

protesting black-on-black death would go off-brand for BLM (the organization).

evidence?

do I think that the three leaders of the BLM organization personally cared and felt rage at the death of Floyd and others? yes, I do. but they have (and had) an objective and mourning black-on-black crime did not figure into it.

according to who?

 

[SilverBear]

It's not murder if it's not legally murder.

you seem to be channeling Orwel

 

[SilverBear]

@SilverBear: how would a local chapter know anything? other than the gossip that they might have heard of that they probably wouldn't share with snoopy outsiders.

local chapters are autonomous and they allot their own resources. He people i spoke to were only to happy to share information.

 

[SilverBear]

That is the problem. There is no evidence. No paper trail. Nothing that tells anyone where all the BLM donation money went or how it was spent. All I know is that I have not seen a dime.

the claim was made that BLM profited financially off the misery of specific families. So where is the evidence of this?

 

[Bradskii]

Context?
If you can't identify a racist statement without context you don't know what racism is.

Really? I love a quiz. Let's do one. I'll give you some quotes and you tell me if they are racist or not. When you do, I'll give you the context and show why you got them all wrong.

I don't like Chinese.
The Irish aren't really that smart.
I'm not hiring any black guy.
You Welsh can hardly string a sentence together.

Whenever you're ready...

 

[Aldebaran]

Are you aware that Cullors stepped down from her position over a year ago?

A little over a year ago is when biden took office and the rioting BLM crowd decided it was time to stop rioting. So that would be the same time BLM and Cullors became irrelevant, and their "income" was drying up as a result. Good time to step down.

 

[Aldebaran]

you seem to be channeling Orwel

"Murder" is a legal term. If an action is not legally defined or judged as a murder, then it isn't murder. Mob rule need not apply. That goes for Social media justice too.

 

[timothyu]

How many confuse bigotry with racism?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

the claim was made that BLM profited financially off the misery of specific families. So where is the evidence of this?

The evidence is the lack of accountability or documentation. This is really basic stuff. It is like your organization was given 6 billion dollars to care for homeless chickens. And a year later you are buying multiple mansions and no chickens were cared for. Then, when questioned, nobody can tell you where the donated money was spent. If you cannot acknowledge that, then I don't know what else to tell you. Unless you can show me exactly where the BLM donation money went. That would be extremely helpful because nobody else seems to have an answer. It sure didn't go towards improving black lives.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

A little over a year ago is when biden took office and the rioting BLM crowd decided it was time to stop rioting. So that would be the same time BLM and Cullors became irrelevant, and their "income" was drying up as a result. Good time to step down.

She got out of the hustle when the hustle was on top.

 

[MrMoe]

Anyone wishing to discuss it, yes. Again, if you want to discuss it then it's expected that you actually know what it means. Therefore, discussing it at length and then asking for a definition is nonsensical.

But we haven't discussed it at length. One of the very first things I asked you was to define racism. You still haven't done that. It's a simple request. I just want to know that you know what the definition is.

As regards the report, you obviously have an opinion on whether it's racist or not. So you do know - and appear to find it not racist. Someone who does find it racist is simply rejecting your interpretation.

Me saying it's not racist isn't based on an opinion, it's based on the definition of racism, and nothing written in report even remotely fits that definition.

Not agreeing on the matter doesn't mean you have different definitions or one person doesn't know what it means

Actually it does. If one person looks at a car and says "that's a car" and another person says "no it's not" then that other person either has a different definition of car or doesn't know what a car is.

- it simply means that you disagree on the context in which the remark was made.

Okay, then explain the context which makes it racism. You and Patrisse Cullors no doubt have the same definition of racism so it should be easy for you to point it out.

I really hope that's clear because I don't want to have to repeat it. And you highlighted 12 or 13 comments I made. I hope you don't expect me to answer them all individually. I don't respond to multiple points raised in a single post. If the points are related then ask the one question. If they are not, then post them individually. Or not. It's up to you.

That's okay, I don't plan to carry on this debate, since you seem determined to defend this woman's nonsensical accusation. And I suspect the reason you are avoiding giving the definition of racism is because you know it won't fit what Patrisse Cullors has called racist.

 

[MrMoe]

citation that she called it racist?

Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors slammed a report by New York Magazine that detailed the organization’s purchase of a swanky $5.8 million Southern California home — claiming the story is a “racist and sexist” attack on the movement.

BLM's Patrisse Cullors slams 'racist' report on $6M SoCal mansion

 

[Ria23]

local chapters are autonomous and they allot their own resources. He people i spoke to were only to happy to share information.

autonomous to an extent, yes, as long as they stay on-brand. if a local BLM chapter decided to, say, put on an event showing their appreciation of local police, I think that they'd get in trouble about it.

local BLM chapters shared info with you because you came off as sympathetic and eager to trust.

 

[Ria23]

@SilverBear: Patrisse Culllors has said that she and BLM have an agenda.

BLM co-founder describes herself as 'trained Marxist'

as far as the rest, consult the BLM organization official website notice the mention of "abolition", a Critical Theory/CRT buzzword referring to the abolition of the US and western world's prison system. (CRT uses "abolition" to make equivalence between American slavery and prison.)
see also:

About - Black Lives Matter

This says among other things:

Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, Inc. is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.

not a word about violence done by black gang members (or, for that matter, gang members, period). the BLM organization and CRT construe the existing political and economic system (which they construe) as racist as the problem and black-on-black violence as symptomatic of it. so, overturn the system and black-on-black violence will go away.

I really do know this stuff. as I have said elsewhere, I spent ten years conversing with and forming friendships with people who thought just like this. in fact, I have to make a conscious mental effort not to go into political zealot mode and go into the zealot, even though I never myself went full-on True Believer.

if individual BLM chapters have protested black-on-black violence, then good for them.