Did Christ at the cross end all the laws?

[SabbathBlessings]

That's fine. Do you believe, then, that each person is responsible for deciding which books are in the Bible just as they are responsible for reading the Bible themselves and deciding which laws ended at the cross?

I think God is as I believe He is in control of His Word. I already addressed the law question previously, by carefully and prayerfully following scripture; God Word reveals which laws ended at the cross pointing to Jesus Hebrews 10, Colossians 2:14, 1 Cor 7:19.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Please stop misrepresenting other posters. You have to know that none of us are saying this.

Why not, these laws came from God, you and other keep repeating you don't have to obey the law. This is the law, you can't have it both ways. God gave these laws, not man. You keep because you want to love and obey God. They are not multiple choice.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

This verse doesn't saying anything about the laws ending.

Then we should "offer the gift that Moses commanded" if we are healed of leprosy?

See Leviticus 14:1-18 for details of the Law.

 

[Leaf473]

How did it go from me asking you to explain which laws your referring to, to asking me the same question I answered more than once, again? You made a statement that you think all the laws ended with Christ- so I asked some questions about that like can you now worship other gods, vain God's holy name, steal, murder etc. but I didn't get an answer, just more questions that have been answered quite a few times with scripture.

This is probably all I have time for at the moment.

God bless.

I believe it went this way:

You asked which laws ended at the cross. I answered that all of the law ended at the cross. You asked if that means we are free to murder, etc. I already answered earlier in the thread that No, murder violates Jesus commandment to love one another as he loved us.

You said that some laws remain after the cross. I asked Which ones? I ask you to be specific.

You have responded to that question many times, but not actually answered it in the sense of giving the scriptures that contain those remaining laws.

I'm asking you to provide the scriptures where those remaining laws are found. If it's too many to do all at once, you can do a few at a time.

Without those scriptures, discussions like this can go on indefinitely.

"But avoid ... arguments and quarrels about the Law."
Titus 3 BLB

Let's move on from the theory and look at the scriptures where you believe the remaining laws are found.

 

[Leaf473]

So Jesus is not your Mediator, nor your High Priest for the forgiveness of sins? I guess only a very tiny part of scripture is written for you and that is the Passover, nothing else, is this what you're saying? So no one knows the New Covenant, it wasn't the example that Jesus left, we are to follow something that no one knows? And we can ignore the great commission that Jesus told the disciples to teach others what He taught, while He came as our example and as the Sacrifice for our sins as our High Priest?

We do have free will, but this thinking is missing out on so much of God's New Covenant promise, that Jesus ratified with His blood. I think many do not understand the New Covenant and it probably has to do with "the laws" that it seems some people will do anything to make scripture say, the laws don't apply to me, only other people, or there are no laws (despite clear scripture stating otherwise) even if that means deleting scriptures. I am sure Jesus will have a lot to say about this as predicted Matthew 7:21-23 but I guess it hard to accept these warnings, if one thinks the scriptures don't apply to them. God bless friend, looks like we will continue to agree to disagree.

Wow, where did you get those ideas from my post?

This is why I would like to focus on the scriptures where the laws that did not end at the cross are found. We don't seem to be communicating well.

If you'd be good enough to post some of those scriptures, I'd be much obliged. I think we could see what's going on in black and white. I know you're going to say the 10 commandments, how about a few more?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Wow, where did you get those ideas from my post?


If you'd be good enough to post some of those scriptures, I'd be much obliged. I know you're going to say the 10 commandments, how about a few more?

Yes, if you are saying you are only in the Covenant that starts at the Passover, you have deleted yourself out of the majority of the New Covenant and the promises.

 

[Leaf473]

I think God is as I believe He is in control of His Word. I already addressed the law question previously, by carefully and prayerfully following scripture; God Word reveals which laws ended at the cross pointing to Jesus Hebrews 10, Colossians 2:14, 1 Cor 7:19.

I agree that God is in control of his word.

How did God communicate his decisions about his word to you? Did he tell you personally that there are 66 books in the Bible?

If you used other people to communicate that message to you, does it follow that it is possible that he would use other people to communicate the interpretation of the Bible to you as well?
_____________

Removing the laws spoken of in Hebrews 10, Colossians 2:14, 1 Cor 7:19 leaves us with about 400 or 500 other laws. Do you keep all of those laws?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I believe it went this way:

You asked which laws ended at the cross. I answered that all of the law ended at the cross. You asked if that means we are free to murder, etc. I already answered earlier in the thread that No, murder violates Jesus commandment to love one another as he loved us.

Are you saying you choose which laws violates the commandments to love and not God Exodus 20:6 the Author?

You said that some laws remain after the cross. I asked Which ones? I ask you to be specific.

Answered more than once.

"But avoid ... arguments and quarrels about the Law."
Titus 3 BLB

I don't feel like I am I'm in a quarrel, but more reasoning from scripture. I know we will probably never agree, but its more for the others who are reading so they can see from scripture, if we love God, we keep His commandments John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6 , not delete them as many unfortunately teach.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. 10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

Sin is breaking the law of God. 1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7

Personally, if I felt I could break God's law without consequences and someone wanted to throw me a lifeline before its too late- the lifeline of God's Word showing that disobedience to God has consequences Hebrews 10:26-30, Matthew 7:21-23, 1 John 2:3-5. Hopefully something the Holy Spirit can impress on some for those who have not harden their hearts. God bless.

 

[Leaf473]

Yes, if you are saying you are only in the Covenant that starts at the Passover, you have deleted yourself out of the majority of the New Covenant and the promises.

Well... no, the New Covenant starts at the last Passover that Jesus celebrates with his disciples on Earth.

All believers, you and I and everyone else, are in the New Covenant.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Well... no, the New Covenant starts at the last Passover that Jesus celebrates with his disciples on Earth.

All believers, you and I and everyone else, are in the New Covenant.

Not according to scripture. Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10.

 

[expos4ever]

Why not, these laws came from God, you and other keep repeating you don't have to obey the law. This is the law, you can't have it both ways. God gave these laws, not man. You keep because you want to love and obey God. They are not multiple choice.

This is not hard to understand.

It is beyond obvious that the absence of a code of
"do's and don'ts" is not required in order for us to behave morally.

I do not kick puppies. Why do I not kick puppies? Certainly not because it is against the law!!! How is this not obvious?

And, again obviously, the Christian with the indwelling Spirit should not need a "law" to guide their actions.

Do you really think that the Holy Spirit is incapable of letting us know that murder is wrong?

Please stop misrepresenting us.

 

[Leaf473]

Are you saying you choose which laws violates the commandments to love and not God Exodus 20:6 the Author?

Answered more than once.



I don't feel like I am I'm in a quarrel, but more reasoning from scripture. I know we will probably never agree, but its more for the others who are reading so they can see from scripture, if we love God, we keep His commandments John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6 , not delete them as many unfortunately teach.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. 10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

Sin is breaking the law of God. 1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7

Personally, if I felt I could break God's law without consequences and someone wanted to throw me a lifeline before its too late- the lifeline of God's Word showing that disobedience to God has consequences Hebrews 10:26-30, Matthew 7:21-23, 1 John 2:3-5. Hopefully something the Holy Spirit can impress on some for those who have not harden their hearts. God bless.

No, we don't decide for ourselves which laws violate God's commandment to love. We know innately, instinctively, what God's views are on these things because he has written his laws in our hearts.

I don't think you have talked specifically about which laws remain. I know you've talked a lot about categories, such as ceremonial laws not remaining.

If you would like to post some of the scriptures that in your view contain some of the remaining laws, that would be great!

 

[Leaf473]

Not according to scripture. Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10.

I believe Jeremiah 31 is a prophecy about the future. That is, future to Jeremiah's time.

"The days are coming,” declares the Lord"

Hebrews, of course, is a quote of Jeremiah.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, we don't decide for ourselves which laws violate God's commandment to love. We know innately, instinctively, what God's views are on these things because he has written his laws in our hearts.

According to scripture we have a written law, so we know what sin is. 1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7 and if we break one of the commandments, we break them all James quoting from the Ten. James 2:10-12. The law that is written in our hearts and minds is activated when we become doers of God's Word, not just hearers. James 1:22, Romans 2:13, Revelation 22:14 Which is why we are to test ourselves to ensure we are in the faith. God bless.

 

[Leaf473]

According to scripture we have a written law, so we know what sin is. 1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7 and if we break one of the commandments, we break them all James quoting from the Ten. James 2:10-12. The law that is written in our hearts and minds is activated when we become doers of God's Word, not just hearers. James 1:22, Romans 2:13, Revelation 22:14 Which is why we are to test ourselves to ensure we are in the faith. God bless.

I see... and... according to your understanding of the scriptures about how many laws are in that written code that tell us what sin is?

By my calculations, based on what you've posted on this thread, I'm guessing 400 or 500.

Is that in the ballpark of what your thinking?

May the Lord bless and keep you, too!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I see... and... according to your understanding of the scriptures about how many laws are in that written code that tell us what sin is?

By my calculations, based on what you've posted on this thread, I'm guessing 400 or 500.

Is that in the ballpark of what your thinking?

May the Lord bless and keep you, too!

From what it appears you keep saying, that until you understand each and every law, you aren't going to obey any, or only the ones you think you should keep? James said you break one of the commandments quoting directly from the Ten, you break them all James 2:10-12. That might be a good place to start.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Very good, you are right. In this instant they first followed his instruction.

But the point was they were following his instruction to fulfill Mosaic Law requirements.
Do people cleanses of leprocy now need to do that as well?

Just FYI, Mark & Matthew's version is different. Matthew 8:2-4, Mark 1:42
"And he stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, "I will; be clean." And immediately his leprosy was cleansed."

 

[trophy33]

James 2:10-12. That might be a good place to start.

Read the whole chapter - James 2, not just three verses.

 

[Leaf473]

From what it appears you keep saying, that until you understand each and every law, you aren't going to obey any, or only the ones you think you should keep? James said you break one of the commandments quoting directly from the Ten, you break them all James 2:10-12. That might be a good place to start.

No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm getting at is that
(and I mean this has gently as possible)
there is a large missing piece in the teaching that you're presenting here.

And I think that missing piece (again, gently) is seen when we look for scriptures that contain those other laws.

What you say sounds good at the beginning. It's when we look for the scriptures that contain the other laws that the teaching starts to break down.

If a teaching breaks down part way into the law, it probably wasn't on the right track at the beginning after all. But you can clear this all up by posting the scriptures where the laws that didn't end at the cross are found.

 

[Leaf473]

From what it appears you keep saying, that until you understand each and every law, you aren't going to obey any, or only the ones you think you should keep? James said you break one of the commandments quoting directly from the Ten, you break them all James 2:10-12. That might be a good place to start.

(Part 2 )
As I see it and following James's idea, there is no "starting with" a set of laws. A person keeps them all or they are guilty of breaking them all.

 

[trophy33]

What you say sounds good at the beginning.

You are being too kind.