Show me ONE instance the bible uses 1000 to describe time literally

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Daniel 12:12 "Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days." 1,335 days is a literal measure of time, I hope that works for you unless it doesn't count because it's slightly over 1,000.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yep. That's a verse with 1000 in it.
But - like the whole apocalyptic genre (200BC to 200AD) - UTTERLY symbolic.

I'm not sure what you're saying.

What happened 200BC to 200AD?

 

[eclipsenow]

Daniel 12:12 "Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days." 1,335 days is a literal measure of time, I hope that works for you unless it doesn't count because it's slightly over 1,000.

Well, we ARE discussing the common Hebrew practice of using 1000 symbolically so 1335 days is not the same thing. It's also difficult.

It's difficult because Daniel wrote in such complicated number patterns that it's hard to know when he's writing literally. Like, are the 70 7's literal years, or more like fractions of time? EG: Roughly this much time then roughly that? Other symbols are more recognisable - such as 7 itself - the perfect amount of time - and 3.5 - half of 7 - a limited period of time. That 3.5 is from Dr Paul Barnett, theologian and historian. Here's more of his work on the numbers and symbols in Revelation etc.
http://paulbarnett.info/2012/03/six-keys-to-unlock-revelation/

But the 1335 doesn't quite add up in our normal understanding of Bible number symbols. It's a bit irregular - and maybe the meaning has been lost? As the ESV Reformation commentary says:-

Dan 12:11
12:11 the abomination that makes desolate is set up. See third note on 9:27. The similar activity of Antiochus IV prefigured this activity of the Antichrist (8:13).

1,290. The significance of these time frames is obscure. Three and one-half years is 1260 days of a 360-day year, or 1278 days of a 365-day year.
Dan 12:11 - ESV Reformation Study Bible - Bible Gateway​

Or, as Dr Kim Riddlebarger says:

The visitor concludes by giving Daniel the time frame for these things to come to pass in verses 11-12. “And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days.” The interpretation of this time frame is very much disputed (and certainly difficult). As we have seen earlier, the numbers in Daniel’s visions are highly symbolic, and we are firm ground if we relate this vision to the earlier one in chapter 8 when a more precise time (2300 days and nights) was given to predict the time of distress associated with the desecration of the temple.

Many commentators think the 1,290 days are symbolic of completeness, and that this refers to Judah’s trial associated with the coming of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, the desecration of the temple, and the cessation of the sacrifices for sin. But the time limit also tells Daniel’s reader that whatever tribulation is to come will be limited and come to an end. Those who wait the entire period of time for deliverance (the 1335 days) will also participate in the final consummation (i.e., the resurrection).9 There may be an echo from Daniel 12:11-12, found in
Jesus’ words in Matthew 24:21-22. “For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.” The Lord did indeed cut short Jerusalem’s anguish and suffering in A.D. 70.

http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace....iel/21 Seal the Book Dan 12 1-13 edited.pdf​

​

 

[eclipsenow]

I'm not sure what you're saying.

What happened 200BC to 200AD?

Oh boy - where to start? This is generally speaking the period in which the Hebrew / Jewish and early Christian authors wrote in this particular genre. It's full of rich symbols and images, is NOT to be read 'literally', but interpreted a bit like one might interpret a comic book. That is, the comic book doesn't always purport to be fine art - but we know what it is saying and how to read the speech bubbles. We've grown up with them, and know what's going on.

Apocalyptic literature is like the bible's own comic books, full of rich symbols, terrible villains we're almost meant to BOO! as the book is read out loud - wonderful heroic scenes of Christian martyrs safe in heaven - and terrifying scenes of God's wrath. Here's more on some of the other works.

Apocalyptic literature - Wikipedia

But Revelation? It's theology to suffering Christians, not a timetable. It's meant to encourage John's generation specifically, but all generations of Christians after. And appealing to the 1000 in Revelation as 'literal' use of 1000 is to reveal a complete misunderstanding of the whole genre of Revelation.

I mean, do you think THIS is literal?

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh boy - where to start? This is generally speaking the period in which the Hebrew / Jewish and early Christian authors wrote in this particular genre.

What does this have to do with me and my 1611 King James Bible in AD 2022?

And in the book of Revelation, Satan is going to be locked up for 1000 years, then released.

If you think "1000 years" means "1000 generations" -- or whatever -- then is Satan going to be locked up that long as well?

Once Satan is confined to the Bottomless Pit, that starts a 1000 year countdown to what we call the Final Rebellion: a superwar that will consist of all the nations of the earth, led by Satan, against Jesus Christ.

 

[3 Resurrections]

But the 1335 doesn't quite add up in our normal understanding of Bible number symbols. It's a bit irregular - and maybe the meaning has been lost?

No, it's not lost. I know what day it referred to, and it was Daniel 12's resurrection date on Pentecost in AD 70. Exactly 1,335 days from the time when the abomination that makes desolate was set up (Jerusalem surrounded by Cestius Gallus's and the Zealots' armies, during the same season when the temple's daily sacrifice for the Roman empire and the emperor was taken away by Eleazar, the temple governor's insistence - both events in late AD 66).

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I'd love someone to show me 1000 used in the context of time that is actually demonstrably literal? As in - not 'literal because I really want it to be literal to justify my own particular individualistic end-times-table'. But actually, demonstrably literal because the text is screaming out that it is literal.

EVERY instance I can see of 1000 in the bible that describes time is symbolic. It either means a 'large number of years' (like we might say 'a gazillion' years) or even eternity.

Deuteronomy 7:9 - "Know therefore that the Lord your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments."
= Is the literal futurist really bold enough to insist God is only faithful for a thousand generations? A generation was 40 years - so in 40,000 years God is unfaithful!!!???

Psalms 84:10 - "Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked."
= Is one day at church better than 1000 days aka 2.7 years, or is this a qualitative assessment of where it is better to DWELL for a long time?

Psalm 105:8 - "He remembers his covenant FOREVER, the promise he made, for a THOUSAND generations"
= Well, which is it? Forever, or a thousand generations / 40,000 years?

So here are 3 powerful verses that show a trend.

Where's the counter example?

I belive the real conundrum is the reign of Jesus Christ of Nazareth only lasting 1000 literal years. He has always reigned from before creation and He will reign forever. Taking this common sense theory, 1000 years represents no time at all or no beginning and no end. Blessings

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Oh boy - where to start? This is generally speaking the period in which the Hebrew / Jewish and early Christian authors wrote in this particular genre. It's full of rich symbols and images, is NOT to be read 'literally', but interpreted a bit like one might interpret a comic book. That is, the comic book doesn't always purport to be fine art - but we know what it is saying and how to read the speech bubbles. We've grown up with them, and know what's going on.

Apocalyptic literature is like the bible's own comic books, full of rich symbols, terrible villains we're almost meant to BOO! as the book is read out loud - wonderful heroic scenes of Christian martyrs safe in heaven - and terrifying scenes of God's wrath. Here's more on some of the other works.

Apocalyptic literature - Wikipedia

But Revelation? It's theology to suffering Christians, not a timetable. It's meant to encourage John's generation specifically, but all generations of Christians after. And appealing to the 1000 in Revelation as 'literal' use of 1000 is to reveal a complete misunderstanding of the whole genre of Revelation.

I mean, do you think THIS is literal?
View attachment 314716

Nobody is discounting the idea that there are metaphors in Revelation.

I believe there are many metaphors in the Bible that Christians do not understand. For example: I believe most Christians misunderstand what really happened in Noah’s tent in the “Story of Noah and Ham” because they don’t understand the metaphors involved.

Check out this CF thread here to learn more:

Biblical Metaphors Shed Light on Ham's Sin in Noah's Tent.

The context lets us know when it is a metaphor or not. We know that the Lamb is in reference to Jesus in the Scriptures. So this lets us know it is symbolic. But nowhere does the Bible say that every time the number 1,000 appears that it must be symbolic. No such teaching in the Bible exists. The only reason why a person interprets the 1,000 year reign of Christ as being symbolic is because they don’t like the idea of it. It’s that simple. Most Christians do not regard salvation in Jesus as symbolic. Why? Because it benefits them in a good way. Ask yourself why you don’t like the idea of a 1,000 year reign of Christ. I believe that is at the heart of the real issue here. Why? Because there are Christians who write off the stories of Noah, and Jonah as metaphor. Why? They don’t like those stories being real because they have a different idea about GOD. They don’t think GOD will bring forth harsh judgment like that literally. So they write it off as metaphor.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Yep. That's a verse with 1000 in it.
But - like the whole apocalyptic genre (200BC to 200AD) - UTTERLY symbolic.

Hi the 1000 years of Revelation between the Armageddon and Satan loosed is tied to a very specific 42 month period. So the 42 months 1260 days and all is literal why would not the 1000 years be? 70 years in Babylon was literal, 400 years in a nation they did not know was literal, the 144,000 is 12,000 from each tribe mentioned, literal. Even if you leave it as a long time the other events like the two prophets dead in the street for 3 days is literal and all the other events that lead up to the kingdom coming in power and judgment . The many things that are specific and used like the 3 days in the grave or 3 days in the fish do show a literal context to the other events related to the 1000 years. So those who allegorize the 1000 years also then throw out the other aspects and symbolize them as well. This is dangerous in that perhaps it is taking away from the words of this prophecy, or as I like to pronounce it proof-I-see.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

I'd love someone to show me 1000 used in the context of time that is actually demonstrably literal? As in - not 'literal because I really want it to be literal to justify my own particular individualistic end-times-table'. But actually, demonstrably literal because the text is screaming out that it is literal.

EVERY instance I can see of 1000 in the bible that describes time is symbolic. It either means a 'large number of years' (like we might say 'a gazillion' years) or even eternity.

Deuteronomy 7:9 - "Know therefore that the Lord your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments."
= Is the literal futurist really bold enough to insist God is only faithful for a thousand generations? A generation was 40 years - so in 40,000 years God is unfaithful!!!???

Psalms 84:10 - "Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked."
= Is one day at church better than 1000 days aka 2.7 years, or is this a qualitative assessment of where it is better to DWELL for a long time?

Psalm 105:8 - "He remembers his covenant FOREVER, the promise he made, for a THOUSAND generations"
= Well, which is it? Forever, or a thousand generations / 40,000 years?

So here are 3 powerful verses that show a trend.

Where's the counter example?

If the thousand years are not literal, how do you then explain Isaiah 11:6 The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den 9 They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 65:17“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind. 18 But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create;
for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy, and her people to be a gladness. 19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in my people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress. 20 No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old,

Nothing describes the literal thousand years better than Isaiah 11 and 65. Do you see any young men today dying as 100 years old? When will this be if not in the literal millennium. The reason why everything in Isaiah 11 is so peaceful, because Jesus is here on Earth in Jerusalem. And what about God's promise to David, that David's heir will sit on the throne in Jerusalem. Do you see Jesus sitting on David's throne today? I do not think so.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I was watching a video interview on a lady who came out of the Westboro baptist church (Which was known as a hate group). She said that she now no longer regards the Word of God as the literal Word of God anymore. This is because her family distorted the Scriptures in that God is all about hate with no real love and that we should correct others in gentleness and love. To learn about the Westboro Baptist church and their past dealings in being wrongfully hateful, check out this YouTube video here:

Note: To be clear, God will judge sinners. This is true. God does also bring forth disasters to get sinners to repent. But we should not speak forth in a way that is hateful in regards to this. We should always speak in gentleness and love. We should never come off as angry hotheads. For people can associate people who act angry and hateful with those who shoot people because of road rage, etcetera. In fact, Fred Phelps (the now deceased founder of the Westboro Baptist church) was said to be an abusive father, as well. So it explains a lot why they came off so hateful.

To learn about this interview of this lady who is no longer a part of the Westboro baptist church, see here:

Anyways, I sometimes find that people tend to allegorize the Scriptures because they cannot rationalize or understand the tough parts of Scripture involving God's judgments or they can from an abusive or hateful family that distorted God's Word. They cannot take a step back and look at the bigger picture and pray about it and ask themselves.... “How can this be true in light of God's love?” For at one time, I struggled personally with God commanding Israel to take the life of children in pagan nations in the Old Testament.

I think folks do not seem to grasp that sometimes there are other cases where the ends can sometimes justify the means. For example: If a bunch of young teenage boys broke into a top secret government facility in a big mountain, and they accidentally released a deadly virus that infected them (and this virus could destroy the majority of the world's population), and they were about to escape the mountain, and the president was informed of the situation, what would he do? Imagine if these kids could be saved in the early stages of the virus because there is enough anti-serum (Which is hard to replicate) to save them, but if they get out, it is a guarantee sure thing that billions of people are going to die a horrible and painful death.

I can imagine any good President
(who wants to protect his people and many others) would say,​

"Send in the F-14's." "Destroy that mountain!"
​

Sure, it would be sad, that those innocent kids would have to die, but their sacrifice would save the entire world. We see in the Old Testament, that animals were sacrificed to temporarily atone for sin. Lots of animals were killed for this purpose. They pointed to the ultimate sacrifice that would forever atone for sin (Who would be Jesus Christ). Life for life. The One for the many.

Sure, I think there are cases were the ends do not justify the means. But I think there are some cases (like the ones I mentioned) whereby it would apply. For remember, GOD had commanded Saul to kill all the Amalekites. But he did not obey or trust GOD. He let the king of the Amalekites and much livestock alive. For this reason, (and another point of disobedience), GOD removed Saul as king. But from our perspective it may seem cruel to wipe out a people. But we forget, that they were a wicked and sinful people that GOD was going to wipe them out anyways. GOD could have given them all heart attacks. But the LORD wanted His people to act on His behalf. To be His arm of justice. Granted, today, we are to love our enemies and to do good unto them. We are under a New Covenant with New commands. We now fight solely a spiritual battle. The Old Covenant showed that GOD is a rewarder to those who followed Him, and He was a punisher to those who disobeyed Him. It shows that GOD is a fair and just GOD. But the point here is that without the One sacrificing or dying, many could then not be saved. We would not be saved. Jesus. He is the One who died for the many (Me, you, and the whole world to offer them the free gift of life to us).

Now... that's love!!!

 

[DavidPT]

I was watching a video interview on a lady who came out of the Westboro baptist church (Which was known as a hate group). She said that she now no longer regards the Word of God as the literal Word of God anymore. This is because her family distorted the Scriptures in that God is all about hate with no real love and that we should correct others in gentleness and love. To learn about the Westboro Baptist church and their past dealings in being wrongfully hateful, check out this YouTube video here:

Note: To be clear, God will judge sinners. This is true. God does also bring forth disasters to get sinners to repent. But we should not speak forth in a way that is hateful in regards to this. We should always speak in gentleness and love. We should never come off as angry hotheads. For people can associate people who act angry and hateful with those who shoot people because of road rage, etcetera. In fact, Fred Phelps (the now deceased founder of the Westboro Baptist church) was said to be an abusive father, as well. So it explains a lot why they came off so hateful.

To learn about this interview of this lady who is no longer a part of the Westboro baptist church, see here:

Anyways, I sometimes find that people tend to allegorize the Scriptures because they cannot rationalize or understand the tough parts of Scripture involving God's judgments or they can from an abusive or hateful family that distorted God's Word. They cannot take a step back and look at the bigger picture and pray about it and ask themselves.... “How can this be true in light of God's love?” For at one time, I struggled personally with God commanding Israel to take the life of children in pagan nations in the Old Testament.

I think folks do not seem to grasp that sometimes there are other cases where the ends can sometimes justify the means. For example: If a bunch of young teenage boys broke into a top secret government facility in a big mountain, and they accidentally released a deadly virus that infected them (and this virus could destroy the majority of the world's population), and they were about to escape the mountain, and the president was informed of the situation, what would he do? Imagine if these kids could be saved in the early stages of the virus because there is enough anti-serum (Which is hard to replicate) to save them, but if they get out, it is a guarantee sure thing that billions of people are going to die a horrible and painful death.

I can imagine any good President
(who wants to protect his people and many others) would say,​

"Send in the F-14's." "Destroy that mountain!"
​

Sure, it would be sad, that those innocent kids would have to die, but their sacrifice would save the entire world. We see in the Old Testament, that animals were sacrificed to temporarily atone for sin. Lots of animals were killed for this purpose. They pointed to the ultimate sacrifice that would forever atone for sin (Who would be Jesus Christ). Life for life. The One for the many.

Sure, I think there are cases were the ends do not justify the means. But I think there are some cases (like the ones I mentioned) whereby it would apply. For remember, GOD had commanded Saul to kill all the Amalekites. But he did not obey or trust GOD. He let the king of the Amalekites and much livestock alive. For this reason, (and another point of disobedience), GOD removed Saul as king. But from our perspective it may seem cruel to wipe out a people. But we forget, that they were a wicked and sinful people that GOD was going to wipe them out anyways. GOD could have given them all heart attacks. But the LORD wanted His people to act on His behalf. To be His arm of justice. Granted, today, we are to love our enemies and to do good unto them. We are under a New Covenant with New commands. We now fight solely a spiritual battle. The Old Covenant showed that GOD is a rewarder to those who followed Him, and He was a punisher to those who disobeyed Him. It shows that GOD is a fair and just GOD. But the point here is that without the One sacrificing or dying, many could then not be saved. We would not be saved. Jesus. He is the One who died for the many (Me, you, and the whole world to offer them the free gift of life to us).

Now... that's love!!!

I haven't looked at those videos, so I'm only going by your commentary, are you certain you posted this in the correct thread? I fail to see how any of this addresses what the OP is in regards to.

 

[DavidPT]

I belive the real conundrum is the reign of Jesus Christ of Nazareth only lasting 1000 literal years. He has always reigned from before creation and He will reign forever. Taking this common sense theory, 1000 years represents no time at all or no beginning and no end. Blessings

You are not thinking this all the way through then. The text never says that Jesus only reigns for a thousand years. The text says that those who have part in the first resurrection, they live and reign with Christ a thousand years, obviously paralleling when satan is bound in the pit. The question then is, what does it mean once the thousand years expire, in regards to those living and reigning with Christ a thousand years? They obviously can't still be reigning with Him a thousand years after that time period has come and gone.

The next thing we see, satan is loosed and goes out to deceive the nations again. There has to be a connection with that and those that have been reigning with Christ a thousand years. But, per some views, the martyrs recorded in verse 4 remain in heaven still without bodies during satan's little season, thus no connection with them and satan's little season since his little season would only be affecting those on earth, and certainly not anyone in heaven.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I haven't looked at those videos, so I'm only going by your commentary, are you certain you posted this in the correct thread? I fail to see how any of this addresses what the OP is in regards to.

My point was not made at the beginning of my post but in the middle.

So yes. I believe I posted this in the appropriate thread because it shows that when a person leans towards allegorizing Scripture beyond what the Bible says, it opens up a pathway or doorway to going down the wrong road of thinking the Bible is not the literal Word of God. That was my point that I was trying to make. It’s not that anyone here in this thread may believe that the Bible is not the literal Word of God (currently), but I believe that when one starts to allegorize Scripture (When the context does not support such a thing), they can fall into the potential danger of not treating the Bible as the literal Word of God later on.

Both the Westboro church and the lady who departed from that church are misunderstanding the Bible and they are not reading it appropriately in context. They each have their own wrong views of the Bible that are extremely wrong. The Westboro church is wrong for interpreting the Bible as God being hateful only, and this lady who left them is wrong for thinking the Bible is not the literal Word of God. Both each have their own beliefs that has led them each into extremely wrong pathway or incorrect belief involving the Bible.

People tend to allegorize the Bible when they don’t understand the depths of God’s love involving those verses. The Bible is divinely inspired by GOD, and God is love and all Scripture is profitable for doctrine, and instruction in righteousness. How is our belief on certain portion of Scripture moving us to be more loving towards God and others? What is the meaning behind the allegory of a 1,000 year reign of Christ that is meaningful enough to move me to want to love Him and others? For me: A literal 1,000 year reign is not only how the text reads normally, but under a deeper level, when I think about a literal 1,000 year reign of Jesus, I think about the goodness of God and His love for us.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Christ ruling for a literal 1,000 years. Why is this offensive? What is the problem in this? Would it not be good that evil will be put in check because the Savior has come to rule? Many want a Savior, but they don't like the idea of Jesus being their Lord. For them: They are still in the ways of this world and or their sin, and they love these things more than Christ. I sure hope this is not the reason why somebody is rejecting a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ. I truly do. Maybe it is another reason. But I don't think that one is rejecting a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ because that is what the Bible teaches. There is a underlying motivating reason in their belief system that is leading them to incorrectly allegorize the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ. But this is not going to work. God will reveal the truth one day and all will have to answer to Him of why they either accepted or rejected certain portions of His Word. I don't want to displease God, and so I will always seek to find what the context and or cross references say on Scripture. I am not looking to make God’s Word bend to my way of thinking. His Word means what it says, and I cannot change it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sometimes folks just tend to get theology or truths from the Bible without realizing that it is by the Scriptures which testify of Jesus. How are the Scriptures that you are reading testifying of Jesus and His love for us? How is your reading of God’s Word inspiring you to love Him and others? These are the deeper underlying questions we should be answering.

In other words, if it’s not a theology in action with us loving God and others, it’s a dead theology and has no real purpose. Everything in God’s Word should guide and motivate us to follow the Lord Jesus and spread His love to others.

 

[Jipsah]

Psalms 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

This verse proves a literal thousand years is being meant here.

No.

 

[Jipsah]

2Pe*3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The point is that a long period of time doesn't seem as long to God as it does to us. To us the fulfillment of various promises seems like it's never going to happen but to God a long time is nothing.

Yes, that's the point, which is precisely why the 1000 as used there there is equivalent to a zillion, I.E., a really long time.

 

[Jipsah]

Nope. God is using two periods of time in the verse. One is exactly a thousand years and the other is exactly one day.

Balderdash.

 

[DavidPT]

No.

Where I come from an answer like that is merely an opinion, it certainly doesn't prove that I am wrong and that you are correct.