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Why are some Christians anti Evolution?

AV1611VET

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If you want to get into these guys thoughts more deeply on certain points, I'll need to pull some books off my shelves, brush up and then stand and deliver. ... I'm not sure that's necessarily worth either of our time. :cool:
No, don't bother.

I was just wondering what your superficial thoughts were.

One more question, if I may?

That "Spinner Box," or whatever it's called, where B.F. Skinner supposedly kept his daughter for two years?

True or False?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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No, don't bother.

I was just wondering what your superficial thoughts were.

One more question, if I may?

That "Spinner Box," or whatever it's called, where B.F. Skinner supposedly kept his daughter for two years?

True or False?

Honestly, I haven't studied much of B.F. Skinner. There were a few mentions of him and his behaviorism in my psychology and sociology courses, but we didn't get into his thinking all that much. Frankly, I'm not a Skinner fan, and there are other psycho-social theories that compete with his. Let's just say that I lean toward aspects of those other theories.

Remember, too, my big 'gig' is Philosophy and Social Philosophy rather than merely on Sociology or Psychology.
 
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AV1611VET

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Remember, too, my big 'gig' is Philosophy and Social Philosophy rather than merely on Sociology or Psychology.
Got it! Thanks for the answers! :oldthumbsup:
 
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2PhiloVoid

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No, don't bother.

I was just wondering what your superficial thoughts were.

One more question, if I may?

That "Spinner Box," or whatever it's called, where B.F. Skinner supposedly kept his daughter for two years?

True or False?

I had to look it up. I guess it was his "air-crib." Weird.
 
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hedrick

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I think @hedrick's post needs to be understood in the context of Christianity's premises. IF there is a god and IF that god has a "holy Spirit" and IF that HS is given to believers to "transform them by the renewing of their minds", THEN you'd expect on average Christians would behave better than non-Christians.

What believers need to ask themselves is why this transformation is not apparent.
Yes. That’s what I meant.
 
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Astrid

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Yes. That’s what I meant.
Of course.
Obviously.

If you dont want ideas n perspective from
outside your circle there are atheist - free zones.

As it is I cant finish the thought.
 
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sjastro

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Brother sjastro, let's just say that I don't think you can settle for a simple, selectively slanted Wikipedia article to "explain" the social and literary implications of the so-called "rape" verses that you are serendipitously bringing up here. Surely, you know that to handle this (these kinds of) verses is going to take multiple interdisciplinary studies to treat in a more balanced, scholarly Hermeneutical way.

I think it's best we just focus on 'why' fundamentalist Christians have various reasons for rejecting the Theory of Evolution (millions of years of biological rather than 2,500 years of "social").
I respectfully disagree with your description of the Wikipedia article based on 128 references as being simple and selectively slanted.
I’m not sure why you think Deuteronomy 22 has not been subject to scholarly analysis.
The issue boils to whether the woman has been raped or not and even if this did not occur the stoning of individuals for adultery is at odds with modern society values.
Scholz (2021) stated that the texts of Deuteronomy 22:25–29 'are widely recognized as rape legislation', while Deuteronomy 22:22–24 as well as Deuteronomy 21:10–14 'are more contested and are not usually characterized as rape laws'.

Cheryl Anderson, in her book Ancient Laws and Contemporary Controversies: The Need for Inclusive Bible Interpretation (2009), said that "Clearly, these laws do not take into account the female's perspective. After a rape, [the victim] would undoubtedly see herself as the injured party and would probably find marriage to her rapist to be distasteful, to say the least. Arguably, there are cultural and historical reasons why such a law made sense at the time. […] Just the same, the law communicates the message that faith tradition does not (and should not) consider the possibility that women might have different yet valid perspectives."[64]

Verse 22:22 does not specifically address the wife's complicity, and therefore Adele Berlin's interpretation (2008) is that even if she was raped, the law dictates she must be put to death since she has been defiled by the extramarital encounter.[61] However, according to the Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges (1882–1925), the crime committed was consensual adultery, and therefore both parties were guilty.[65]

Frank M. Yamada (2008) opined that Deuteronomy 22:23–24, which commands punishment for the engaged virgin woman if the act takes place in the city, was not about rape, but adultery, because the engaged woman was already considered to be the reserved property of her future husband. He also argued that the Deuteronomic laws treat women as the property of men, and that "the Deuteronomic laws (...) do not address the crime of rape as sexual violence against a woman as such," but as an economic crime against her father or (future) husband. Because it was the father's prerogative to marry his daughter off to a man of his choice, payment of a dowry of fifty shekels of silver to the deflowered woman's father is mentioned in Deuteronomy 22:28–29 as a restitution for her unplanned loss of virginity. Yamada pointed out that there was no death penalty for either party in this latter scenario, but a marry-your-rapist provision, which he compared to Shechem's offer of marriage including a bride price after raping Dinah in Genesis 34:12.[66]

Regarding 22:25–27, Craig S. Keener (1996) considered it a rape scenario, comparing it to the Laws of Eshnunna §26.[note 4] He noted that "if no one else was present as a witness of her innocence but she was clearly violated, biblical law assumes [the woman's] innocence without requiring witnesses (22:27); she does not bear the burden of proof to argue that she did not consent. (...) If the couple definitely had intercourse, the man was guilty either way, but if the woman might have been innocent, her innocence must be assumed."[68] Davidson (2011) added, "Thus the Mosaic law protects the sexual purity of a betrothed woman (and protects the one to whom she is betrothed), and prescribing the severest penalty to the man who dares to sexually violate her."[69]

Robert S. Kawashima noted (2011) that regardless of whether the rape of a girl occurs in the country or the city, these verses imply that she "can be guilty of a crime, but not, technically speaking, a victim of a crime, for which reason her noncomplicity does not add to the perpetrator's guilt."
The opinions expressed here in justifying the Bible’s method of justice has proved valuable as it reveals the mindset for their rejection of TOE, namely the Bible is an irrefutable, inviolable and infallible source and therefore creationism must be correct by default and no evidence to support it is required.
 
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Hans Blaster

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This conversation has nothing to do with evolution.

If that is the case: Why is it in this thread?

(Of course I have seen all manner of paranoid moral panic tied to evolution. So I don't know that I should accept this claim.)
 
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coffee4u

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Good. So maybe you'll take my word for it when I tell you the old adage, "it takes one to know one."



Nope -- but you will anyway.



I usually don't approve of anyone pretending to be a teacher, unless they're an actor playing one on TV. And I really don't approve of people who believe absolutely everything they see on TikTok.

I mean, seriously... where's that "Christian discernment" I keep hearing so much about?

Let the record show a vote of no confidence when it comes to matters of evolution...

So you claim that every single teacher like this on tictok, Youtube etc are all fakes?

I think the fact that they have put together this bill for K- third grade says otherwise. I hardly think the government would be concerned about a handful of fake tictokers or whatever it is they call themselves. I myself have never been on tictok they are being exposed on Youtube.
 
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coffee4u

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If that is the case: Why is it in this thread?

(Of course I have seen all manner of paranoid moral panic tied to evolution. So I don't know that I should accept this claim.)

I answered this thread on topic way back, then someone asked something or posted something and it veered off. I was away sick so I don't remember how it ended up here. I'm sure it's not the first or last thread to go OT.
 
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Hans Blaster

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So you claim that every single teacher like this on tictok, Youtube etc are all fakes?

I think the fact that they have put together this bill for K- third grade says otherwise. I hardly think the government would be concerned about a handful of fake tictokers or whatever it is they call themselves. I myself have never been on tictok they are being exposed on Youtube.

I have no idea. I've never been to TicToc. Nor have I watched the video embedded in an off topic post.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I respectfully disagree with your description of the Wikipedia article based on 128 references as being simple and selectively slanted.
I’m not sure why you think Deuteronomy 22 has not been subject to scholarly analysis.
I didn't say that it hasn't been.

The issue boils to whether the woman has been raped or not and even if this did not occur the stoning of individuals for adultery is at odds with modern society values.
I see. Apparently, we're talking past each other.

The opinions expressed here in justifying the Bible’s method of justice has proved valuable as it reveals the mindset for their rejection of TOE, namely the Bible is an irrefutable, inviolable and infallible source and therefore creationism must be correct by default and no evidence to support it is required.
Thanks for pasting some sources regarding the hermeneutical study of these passages. They are something to add to all of those I've already studied in the past over the same issue.
 
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TLK Valentine

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So you claim that every single teacher like this on tictok, Youtube etc are all fakes?

I must have missed the post where you showed me "every single teacher like this on tiktok, Youtube, etc."

You showed me this video, and I'm telling you this teacher is a fake.


I think the fact that they have put together this bill for K- third grade says otherwise. I hardly think the government would be concerned about a handful of fake tictokers or whatever it is they call themselves.

First of all, it's not "the government" -- it's a handful of Republican politicians.

Second, sounds like you think that when a political party tells you there's a crisis that only they can solve, you take them at their word.

BTW, the Jews are on the phone; they'd like to have a word with you...

I myself have never been on tictok they are being exposed on Youtube.

You posted a TikTok video -- Your experience (or lack thereof) regarding social media was plain enough without the announcement.

Finally, this is a thread about evolution, and the only thing this has in common with evolution is it shows how easily the credulous can be swayed against any form of education that those charge tell them to be.
 
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Astrid

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Yes it would be contrary to the order of God's creation. He made everything after it's own " kind" from the beginning so it would be impossible to claim fish to man or reptile to man or more common, ape to man.
Genesis clearly states the order of God's creation. Each one keeps within their own designation, type and kind. These are plants, animals/creatures and humans. There is never a crossover and there does not need to be.
What I will say is we are all made from the dust of the earth and God only breathed into Adam for life and gave him His spirit.

What is a "crossover"?
 
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