A few questions for Protestants

[Fidelibus]

1. SS - Sola Scriptura - does not mean that no governing body of Christians can ever be correct on doctrine.

Could you say without hesitation, that 100% of the many different Protestant denominations and sects would agree with what you say here?

2. 2 Cor 5:10 - DOES MEAN that no governing body of Christians will "stand in your place" and/or "Answer for you" as you stand alone before the judgment seat of Christ.

Thanks for sharing with us what you think your fallible interpretation of this passage "DOES MEAN" and is subject to error, correct?

Now, do I believe what Scripture says in 2 Cor. 5:10? You darn tootin! Just not necessarily your fallible version of it.

In my Catholic bible studies of this passage, we see verse ten addresses the reward or punishment given at the Individual/Particular Judgment and ratified at the Last Judgment at the end of time. St. Paul taught, and the Church affirms, that immediately following death, every human being faces divine judgment (Heb 9:27). In one's individual judgment, a person is judged on whether or not he or she accepted or rejected the divine grace manifested in Christ (Heb 9:27).

The Christian who unites his death to that of Christ sees death as a step towards the Savior and the entrance into everlasting life. Those who choose Christ and die in a state of divine grace escape death by life in Heaven while retaining, or finally achieving, their true identity, as St. Ambrose wrote: "For life is to be with Christ; where Christ is, there is life, there is the kingdom" (In Luc, 10.121; see Rom 14:10).

A person's merits gained during his life on earth is the basis of the Last Judgment, as Jesus described the Last Judgment to His disciples in Matt. 25:31-46. St. Paul exhorts us to do everything we can in this life to please the Lord God and to prepare ourselves for our meeting with Him in the next.

3. Scripture is the Word of God and as such - is the highest authority on Earth.

Where in the bible does the bible say this? Book, Chapter, and verse please.

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Under the Protestant/Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) theological system, is it your belief, and would you agree, there exists no person or no institution that can infallibly decide what is true and what is false for Christians when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals?

If you happen to answer yes to this question, my next question would be.... under this theological system, would you agree there is no sure way you could have absolute assurance of anything you believe being true? In other words, there is no way of knowing the truth?

Yet, Jesus says, "Know the truth and the truth will set make you free." (John 8:32)

So, let me leave you with this last question: For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

Have a Blessed day!

Anyone who understands Roman Catholic theology would know that these are loaded questions designed to draw unsuspecting people into pre-determined answers already formulated according to the OP's theology.

 

[A_Thinker]

So A-Thinker, let me ask you, what is Paul's point and what is the "what is written" to which Paul refers?

I think that what Paul means ... is that going beyond what is stated in the text ... will be a cause for division in the Church ...

 

[A_Thinker]

For some strange reason, I have trouble accepting that heretics are part of the Church.

That is certainly in line with Catholic teaching ... and responsible for the many attacks upon "heretics" in your church's history.

 

[timothyu]

True. Not many Jews survived in Christianity as Jews, and oddly there was never a stipulation they had to give up their ways. Jesus and the 12 certainly didn't. They merely added to them by living in the ways God commanded, putting His will first and caring for each other while spreading the good news that God would abolish man's reign over man and assume His rightful place.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
1. SS - Sola Scriptura - does not mean that no governing body of Christians can ever be correct on doctrine.

Could you say without hesitation, that 100% of the many different Protestant denominations and sects would agree with what you say here?

I don't know of any that would object to what I just said in that quote.

I don't know of any that would call me their pope.

 

[BobRyan]

2. 2 Cor 5:10 - DOES MEAN that no governing body of Christians will "stand in your place" and/or "Answer for you" as you stand alone before the judgment seat of Christ

2 Cor 5
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive compensation for his deeds done through the body, in accordance with what he has done, whether good or bad.

Thanks for sharing with us what you think your fallible interpretation of this passage "DOES MEAN" and is subject to error, correct?

You are opposing the mere quote of the text... your argument is "with the text"

There is no "someone else stands in our place" in that verse... obviously. One would need to "insert it"

In my Catholic bible studies of this passage, we see verse ten addresses the reward or punishment given at the Individual/Particular Judgment and ratified at the Last Judgment at the end of time.

Even that does not insert - "someone else stands in our place" - in vs 10

What you insert is two judgments. But even then even you don't have anyone standing in your place. you leave it as I stated it - that you alone are being held accountable as you stand alone before the judgment seat of Christ.

Rom 6:23 says "the wages of sin is death" so the reward for evil is already clearly stated in scripture.

The point remains.

 

[renniks]

So, can you honestly say renniks, knowing this, you have no concerns putting your soul and eternal salvation entirely upon their fallible decision? I mean think about it, at the start of this post you yourself said "I don't know all the history, just pieces."

My salvation doesn't depend on history and traditions in the church but on Christ alone. You don't have to know anything about church history to be saved eternally.

 

[timothyu]

Rev:18 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

 

[YeshuaFan]

If you oppose and malign the Church that Jesus founded, that's probably a fair indication that you're not part of it.

The true Church of Christ is none I listed!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Can we perhaps stop with the endless attacks on the Roman church? I don’t see very many Roman criticisms of Protestants; this thread itself is an anomaly and it was in response to a Protestant thread attacking theml

the Church of Rome at Council of tgren t repudiated Pauline Justification, and since then, indeed holds to another Gospel!

 

[com7fy8]

Under the Protestant/Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) theological system, is it your belief, and would you agree, there exists no person or no institution that can infallibly decide what is true and what is false for Christians when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals?

I agree there is no one person or institution that is called Catholic or Protestant.

But Jesus has given us leaders who meet the qualifications of 1 Timothy 3:1-10. Plus God makes us able to help one another > Colossians 3:18.

So, I can see that all who are God's people are Christ's institution, helping one another. And the ones functional in this obey the standards of God's word for who qualifies to "take care of the church of God." > 1 Timothy 3:1-10.

To me, it appears that there are both Catholic and Protestant groups who do not obey these leadership qualifications given in God's word. But I think there could be individuals and certain groups who do . . . whose leaders take the lead in all which God's word means for us all to do > 1 Peter 5:3 >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

 

[com7fy8]

Yet, Jesus says, "Know the truth and the truth will set make you free." (John 8:32)

And the truth to know is who?

"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me." (in John 14:6)

So, let me leave you with this last question: For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

Have a Blessed day!

The Bible says, "the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." And my opinion and experience is that God means the ones who obey His approved pastors > Hebrews 13:17. And these approved ones obey and meet His standards for who is qualified to take care of His people, and He knows who these people are.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

the Church of Rome at Council of tgren t repudiated Pauline Justification, and since then, indeed holds to another Gospel!

That is a strong accusation, it would be well for you to provide evidence for a statement like that. You need to define three things.

1 The Gospel
2 Pauline justification
3 Another Gospel

what does scripture say? What does Trent say?
How does Trent contradict scripture?

To make that accusation without evidence is at best detraction and at worst slander. Scripture gives us specific commands not to do that
Matthew 5:22 comes to mind. Please provide evidence to examine

 

[YeshuaFan]

That is a strong accusation, it would be well for you to provide evidence for a statement like that. You need to define three things.

1 The Gospel
2 Pauline justification
3 Another Gospel

what does scripture say? What does Trent say?
How does Trent contradict scripture?

To make that accusation without evidence is at best detraction and at worst slander. Scripture gives us specific commands not to do that
Matthew 5:22 comes to mind. Please provide evidence to examine

Trent stated that if any hold to imputed righteousness to us thru faith alone in work and person of Christ was anathema, and yet that is very heart of Pauline Justification!

 

[BobRyan]

Trent stated that if any hold to imputed righteousness to us thru faith alone in work and person of Christ was anathema, and yet that is very heart of Pauline Justification!

Like this?
Council of Trent: Canons on Justification.

 

[BobRyan]

And the truth to know is who?

"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me." (in John 14:6)

The Bible says, "the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." And my opinion and experience is that God means the ones who obey His approved pastors > Hebrews 13:17. And these approved ones obey and meet His standards for who is qualified to take care of His people, and He knows who these people are.

The Jews of Christ's day held similar view regarding their approved Bible teachers and religious leaders who are validly appointed to serve in the one true nation church started by God at Sinai.

Notice how Christ addressed it in Mark 7:6-13?

 

[timothyu]

There is only one gospel according to Jesus, the Gospel of the Kingdom .. the governance of God over man, not man over man. No mention of man masquerading as a proxy.

 

[rturner76]

I think some Protestants are "Paulians" in their theology but Paul was the only one that didn't travel with Jesus. From him is where they get "faith alone" when all of the other APostles preach faith and obedience. You have to temper Paul with the other writers to get the full picture.

The thing is that the CHurch is actually older than the Bible and it was that original CHurch that voted for the Biblical Cannon that exists today (minus a few books the Protestants tossed out of the Bible).

Protestant churches have made changes to the faith but 90% of their theologies are based on Catholic dogma. So why not just go to the source?

 

[timothyu]

The thing is that the CHurch is actually older than the Bible

And the original church of the people is older than the Institution.