Apostle John did not see mother Mary in heaven

[Servant78]

Revelation 4:1 ....come up hither.

Apostle John was taken to heaven circa 90 AD and he did not see mother Mary or any queen of heaven there.

John did see God at His Throne, the four beasts, the Lamb and millions of angels as he wrote in Revelation 5:11. They all glorify God, not Mary. John did not see any holy queen enthroned above.

John Saw the Ark of Covenant in Revelation 11:19, the purpose of the Ark is as the reminder of God's Law and God's Covenant with Israel, not between Mary and Israel but between God and Israel.

Further, when apostle John saw the new Jerusalem in Revelation 21:23 there was no light from Mary shining the city but the light came from God and the Lamb.

 

[honey badger]

Revelation 4:1 ....come up hither.

Apostle John was taken to heaven circa 90 AD and he did not see mother Mary there.

John did see God at His Throne, the four beasts, the Lamb and millions of angels as he wrote in Revelation 5:11.

Further, when apostle John saw the new Jerusalem in Revelation 21:23 there was no light from Mary shining the city but the light came from God and the Lamb.

Mary in picture is the virgin/soul that gives birth to light ..

 

[PeterDona]

So what is your point?

And how would it affect your point to learn, that in 11:19-12:17 we read first of the "ark of the covenant" and immediately after, of "the woman giving birth to a man child that shall rule with an iron rod".

Which ark?
which woman?

 

[Servant78]

So what is your point?

And how would it affect your point to learn, that in 11:19-12:17 we read first of the "ark of the covenant" and immediately after, of "the woman giving birth to a man child that shall rule with an iron rod".

Which ark?
which woman?

My point is no evidence of Mary as queen of heaven.

The Ark was made to remind the people about God's Law and the Covenant between God and Israel, not between Mary and Israel.

It has been taken to heaven to avoid abusing it at the 3rd antichrist temple where the son of perdition will commit the abomination of the desolation.

Catholic was officially recognized by Justinian Decree at 538 AD and empower the Pope with absolute power to persecute resistants for 1260 years of Inquisition (the woman run to wilderness to avoid persecution).

 

[disciple Clint]

Revelation 4:1 ....come up hither.

Apostle John was taken to heaven circa 90 AD and he did not see mother Mary or any queen of heaven there.

John did see God at His Throne, the four beasts, the Lamb and millions of angels as he wrote in Revelation 5:11. They all glorify God, not Mary.

John Saw the Ark of Covenant in Revelation 11:19, the purpose of the Ark is as the reminder of God's Law and God's Covenant with Israel, not between Mary and Israel but between God and Israel.

Further, when apostle John saw the new Jerusalem in Revelation 21:23 there was no light from Mary shining the city but the light came from God and the Lamb.

Are you aware that Mary is also referred to as the Ark?

 

[Servant78]

Are you aware that Mary is also referred to as the Ark?

It is not Biblical.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Mary in picture is the virgin/soul that gives birth to light ..

What does that mean exactly? You imply that Mary is God.

 

[honey badger]

What does that mean exactly? You imply that Mary is God.

the women/soul births what seed is planted/sown in it ...

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Revelation 12 refers to Wisdom in Proverbs 8. Jesus even said "wisdom is justified by her children"

However, if you use Revelation 12 to prove Mary is the queen of heaven, you would be disappointed because of

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Only the Child was given a throne, the woman was not given a throne.

 

[disciple Clint]

It is not Biblical.

"Some verses which support the claim that the Blessed Virgin Mother is indeed the Ark of the New Covenant are 2 Chronicles 6 :41 and Psalms 132:8 “And now arise, O LORD God, and go to thy resting place, thou and the Ark of thy might.” These verses clearly indicate how Jesus the Son of God and the Son of Mary would honour his mother – the Ark. He intended to honour her by taking her to heaven in much the same way as he himself went. Another verse that supports this claim is the Revelation given to St. John the Apostle whom the Mother adopted as her son at the foot of the Cross.

Revelations 11:19 “Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the Ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.” Since the Ark of the Covenant was a sign and a very important one at that, Revelations 12:1 “ And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars, refers to the Ark of the Covenant and the 12 tribes of Israel."
Why is Mary called The Ark of The Covenant?

 

[Servant78]

"Some verses which support the claim that the Blessed Virgin Mother is indeed the Ark of the New Covenant are 2 Chronicles 6 :41 and Psalms 132:8 “And now arise, O LORD God, and go to thy resting place, thou and the Ark of thy might.” These verses clearly indicate how Jesus the Son of God and the Son of Mary would honour his mother – the Ark. He intended to honour her by taking her to heaven in much the same way as he himself went. Another verse that supports this claim is the Revelation given to St. John the Apostle whom the Mother adopted as her son at the foot of the Cross.

Revelations 11:19 “Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the Ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.” Since the Ark of the Covenant was a sign and a very important one at that, Revelations 12:1 “ And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars, refers to the Ark of the Covenant and the 12 tribes of Israel."
Why is Mary called The Ark of The Covenant?

Thats not historical.

The Ark of Covenant is the reminder that God has covenant with the Jews, its between God and the Jews not between Mary and the Jews, never in history.

 

[disciple Clint]

Thats not historical.

The Ark of Covenant is the reminder that God has covenant with the Jews, its between God and the Jews not between Mary and the Jews, never in history.

first you say it is not biblical then when you are proven wrong on that point you say it is not historical, it is very historical it is addressed by the Church Fathers. Why not just accept the facts?
"The Understanding of Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant is nothing new. It was taught and celebrated early in Christian history. For the full story, please read my article “Mary, Ark of the New Covenant.”
I have compiled as many quotations from the Fathers of the Church as I could readily find to help establish the fact that Mary is biblically portrayed as the Ark, the Tabernacle and the fulfillment of other similar Old Testament types. Most of these quotations were found in a book long out of print: The Blessed Virgin in the Fathers of the First Six Centuries written by Thomas Livius and published by Burns and Oakes in 1893." Church Fathers on Mary as Ark of the New Covenant ::

 

[HTacianas]

Revelation 4:1 ....come up hither.

Apostle John was taken to heaven circa 90 AD and he did not see mother Mary or any queen of heaven there.

John did see God at His Throne, the four beasts, the Lamb and millions of angels as he wrote in Revelation 5:11. They all glorify God, not Mary.

John Saw the Ark of Covenant in Revelation 11:19, the purpose of the Ark is as the reminder of God's Law and God's Covenant with Israel, not between Mary and Israel but between God and Israel.

Further, when apostle John saw the new Jerusalem in Revelation 21:23 there was no light from Mary shining the city but the light came from God and the Lamb.

Rev 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.

The moon is a Jewish symbol of the Messiah. Note that the woman has the moon under her feet. It is actually between her feet, i.e., she is in the process of birthing the moon; the Messiah. He would go on to be king. She is the king's mother.

See now the place of the king's mother according to Jewish custom:

1Ki 2:19 Bathsheba therefore went to King Solomon, to speak to him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her and bowed down to her, and sat down on his throne and had a throne set for the king’s mother; so she sat at his right hand.

As mother to the king, Bathsheba reigned as queen.

 

[Petros2015]

Apostle John was taken to heaven circa 90 AD and he did not see mother Mary or any queen of heaven there.

Heaven is probably a big place. John was the last apostle to die.
How many other apostles did he see there?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Revelation 4:1 ....come up hither.

Apostle John was taken to heaven circa 90 AD and he did not see mother Mary or any queen of heaven there.

John did see God at His Throne, the four beasts, the Lamb and millions of angels as he wrote in Revelation 5:11. They all glorify God, not Mary.

John Saw the Ark of Covenant in Revelation 11:19, the purpose of the Ark is as the reminder of God's Law and God's Covenant with Israel, not between Mary and Israel but between God and Israel.

Further, when apostle John saw the new Jerusalem in Revelation 21:23 there was no light from Mary shining the city but the light came from God and the Lamb.

Revelation is written with many Old Testament references. From the beginning we are told who and what is the " woman".

Commentary J.W. Rittenhouse
Genesis 37:6-10
In Genesis, Jacob clearly understood that he was the sun, his wife was the moon, and his twelve children were the stars. This is the root of the nation of Israel. In Revelation, these symbols are used for two reasons. One is to signify the root of the woman portrayed there, that she is Israelitish: sun, moon, stars—Jacob, Rachel, and the twelve sons. But the sun, moon, and stars also have a secondary meaning: to indicate glory. She is a glorious woman—one that can be associated with the glorious things in the heaven—the sun, moon, and stars.

Note this allusion to glory because, as God is looking at Israel at this time—that is, in the prophetic sense, in the time within the prophecies—Israel is glorious. Israel's beginning was glorious—glorious as the heavenly bodies

 

[Servant78]

@disciple Clint


There is no covenant between the State of Israel (the Jews) and Mary. The Ark of Covenant is placed at the Temple as a reminder of God's Covenant between God and Israel, not between Mary and Israel. The people of Israel didnt even know who was Mary. Claiming Mary is the Ark is unBiblical and not based on history but based on story.

@Petros2015

John did not see Mary in heaven and the angels only glorify God. The deceased saints are awaiting resurrection at Gehenna.

@Maria Billingsley
Yes the woman represents Israel.

 

[disciple Clint]

@disciple Clint


There is no covenant between the State of Israel (the Jews) and Mary. The Ark of Covenant is placed at the Temple as a reminder of God's Covenant between God and Israel, not between Mary and Israel. The people of Israel didnt even know who was Mary. Claiming Mary is the Ark is unBiblical and not based on history but based on story.

@Petros2015

John did not see Mary in heaven and the angels only glorify God. The deceased saints are awaiting resurrection at Gehenna.

@Maria Billingsley
Yes the woman represents Israel.

You are attempting to ignore the evidence in post #10 and post #12, do you have evidence to provide as a rebuttal?

 

[Servant78]

You are attempting to ignore the evidence in post #10 and post #12, do you have evidence to provide as a rebuttal?

The Ark of Covenant was placed at the temple of God in Jerusalem as a reminder of God's Covenant with Israel, there was no attribute to Mary at the temple as the Jews did not even know her, howbeit Mary became the Ark ? Your theory is not based on history but on story.

 

[disciple Clint]

The Ark of Covenant was placed at the temple of God in Jerusalem as a reminder of God's Covenant with Israel, there was no attribute to Mary at the temple as the Jews did not even know her, howbeit Mary became the Ark ? Your theory is not based on history but on story.

Once again, I provided evidence, you have provided no evidence. Do you have any evidence to dispute the evidence I provided?

 

[concretecamper]

John Saw the Ark of Covenant in Revelation 11:19, the purpose of the Ark is as the reminder of God's Law and God's Covenant with Israel, not between Mary and Israel but between God and Israel.

the very next verse describes a woman. The early Church made the connection that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant.