Dear Protestants ... please explain John 1:42

[Buzzard3]

I make it up as I go. Me write book on this soon.

Please don't. That would be embarrassing.

 

[Buzzard3]

Yes BNRFAN, Peter was obedient to the entire law. What your missing, is that Peter was compelling the Gentiles to live like Jews!

Living like a Jew is not just about avoiding the breaking the bread together (Mass), with Gentiles. The law stipulated that Jews must not associate with Gentiles. Gentiles were dogs, unholy, sinners.

Living like a Jew is following the dictates of the law, circumcision is the outward marker of Judaism. The law is what gave meaning to the two terms, Jew, Gentile.

Peter was retreating into Jewish legalism in all it's glory. Paul did not rebuke Peter to his face in Antioch because Peter would not eat with the Gentiles. It was seriously much more than that, Peter was teaching the Gentiles legal obedience.

Are you saying Peter was teaching the Gentiles that following the law of Moses was necessary for salvation?
And James was teaching the same thing too?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

John 1:42 describes the very first time Jesus met Simon, who became an apostle (aka Peter). Jesus said to Simon, "You are Simon, the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas (which translates as 'Peter' and means 'rock')".

Why did Jesus give the name "rock" to a man he'd just met ... in fact it was the very first thing he ever said to him!

You don't know? Well, here's a hint: Read Matt 16:18

Since Petra is like a little rock or stone, I tend to take it as being a chip off the old block. In the next interaction Jesus calls Peter the devil also, so I would not recommend to state that a mere man is "the rock" the kingdom is built on.

 

[Buzzard3]

Since Petra is like a little rock or stone, I tend to take it as being a chip off the old block.

Petra means a little rock? Really?

"Petros" is masculine; "Petra" is feminine. So "Peter" - a MAN - can only be translated (in Koine Greek) as the MASCULINE "Petros".
To translate "Peter" as the feminine "Petra" would be as grammatically incorrect as addressing a man as "Madam".

Even Protestant Greek scholars like D.A. Carson and Joseph Thayer admit there is no distinction in meaning between petros and petra in the Koine Greek of the New Testament.*
The Greek word for 'pebble' or 'small stone' is lithos, not petros.

*[Joseph H. Thayer, Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Peabody: Hendrickson, 1996), 507; D.A. Carson, “Matthew,” in Frank E. Gaebelein, ed., The Expositor's Bible Commentary (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1984), vol. 8, 368.]


If you read a French Bible, the words for "Peter" and "rock" in Matt 16:18 are exactly the same.

Furthermore, as I understand it, the Aramaic name Jesus gave Simon in John 1:42 is "kepha", which simply means "rock" - not "little rock" or "pebble", but simply "rock".

Greek has a word for 'small stone,' lithos, and so does Aramaic - "evna". Jesus did not change Simon's name to "Evna", but to "Kephas", which translates as Petros in Koine Greek, and means "rock".

In the next interaction Jesus calls Peter the devil

My understanding is, Peter did not become the "rock" until the Holy Spirit descended on the Church on the day of Pentecost

also, so I would not recommend to state that a mere man is "the rock" the kingdom is built on.

Why not? Jesus gave the divine "keys of the kingdom of heaven" to "a mere man" (Peter) in Matt 16:19.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Petra means a little rock? Really?

"Petros" is masculine; "Petra" is feminine. So "Peter" - a MAN - can only be translated (in Koine Greek) as the MASCULINE "Petros".
To translate "Peter" as the feminine "Petra" would be as grammatically incorrect as addressing a man as "Madam".

Even Protestant Greek scholars like D.A. Carson and Joseph Thayer admit there is no distinction in meaning between petros and petra in the Koine Greek of the New Testament.*
The Greek word for 'pebble' or 'small stone' is lithos, not petros.

*[Joseph H. Thayer, Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Peabody: Hendrickson, 1996), 507; D.A. Carson, “Matthew,” in Frank E. Gaebelein, ed., The Expositor's Bible Commentary (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1984), vol. 8, 368.]


If you read a French Bible, the words for "Peter" and "rock" in Matt 16:18 are exactly the same.

Furthermore, as I understand it, the Aramaic name Jesus gave Simon in John 1:42 is "kepha", which simply means "rock" - not "little rock" or "pebble", but simply "rock".

Greek has a word for 'small stone,' lithos, and so does Aramaic - "evna". Jesus did not change Simon's name to "Evna", but to "Kephas", which translates as Petros in Koine Greek, and means "rock".

My understanding is, Peter did not become the "rock" until the Holy Spirit descended on the Church on the day of Pentecost

Why not? Jesus gave the divine "keys of the kingdom of heaven" to "a mere man" (Peter) in Matt 16:19.

It is because, the confession that was revealed by God and not by men is a far surer foundation, than a man.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

People come to Jesus Christ, because the Holy Spirit reveals that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the Living God.

People do not come to Jesus Christ because of Peter.

 

[klutedavid]

Are you saying Peter was teaching the Gentiles that following the law of Moses was necessary for salvation?
And James was teaching the same thing too?

Well that's what Paul said. There is no room for any interpretation of the text.

Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

Paul is accusing Peter directly of placing the law upon the Gentiles. That is what Peter was doing and he was not alone.

 

[klutedavid]

Please don't. That would be embarrassing.

Why not, Christianity has a long history of people writing books. Visit a Christian bookstore online and see for yourself.

 

[klutedavid]

Are you saying Peter was teaching the Gentiles that following the law of Moses was necessary for salvation?
And James was teaching the same thing too?

You seem to be missing the elephant in the room.

Why is Peter even mentioned in the letter to the Galatians?

Paul is seriously correcting the Gentile church in Galatia. This is not a love letter, Buzzard3.

Paul named Peter on purpose!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You seem to be missing the elephant in the room.

Why is Peter even mentioned in the letter to the Galatians?

Paul is seriously correcting the Gentile church in Galatia. This is not a love letter, Buzzard3.

Paul named Peter on purpose!

Oh no :o did the rock crumble?

 

[klutedavid]

Oh no did the rock crumble?

Yes Sir, the rock had backslidden into the law. The rock was condemned.

More importantly, Paul was the apostle to the Gentile churches, Paul was the father of all the Gentile churches. Paul was the true pope.

That what the letter to the Galatians proclaims.

 

[Buzzard3]

Why not, Christianity has a long history of people writing books. Visit a Christian bookstore online and see for yourself.

You're dreaming. No publisher is going to make a fool of itself and waste their money putting your disastrous exegesis into print. But good luck with that.

 

[Buzzard3]

Well that's what Paul said. There is no room for any interpretation of the text.

Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

Paul is accusing Peter directly of placing the law upon the Gentiles. That is what Peter was doing and he was not alone.

You've got your wires crossed. Firstly, It was not sinful for any Christian (Jew or Gentile) to practise Jewish ritual customs ... provided it was understood that such customs are not required for salvation and are simply cultural artifacts.
And secondly, nowhere in Scripture does it say Peter (or any apostle) taught that following the law of Moses is necessary for salvation.

Furthermore, you seemed to have overlooked the part of that verse where Paul says PETER "live(s) LIKE THE GENTILES and NOT LIKE THE JEWS". That's the OPPOSITE of what you're claiming ... that Peter forced Gentiles to live like Jews.

What Paul is accusing Peter of is being two-faced: Peter compelled the Gentiles to live like Jews only when the Jewish "circumcision party" was in town, but when they're weren't in town, Peter not only didn't compel Gentiles to live like Jews, he himself lived like the Gentiles. Peter's hypocrisy was a relatively minor offence, really.

 

[Buzzard3]

That what the letter to the Galatians proclaims.

Are we to believe that your hopelessly flawed ideas are the result of the Holy Spirit guiding you to an infallible interpretation of Scripture?

 

[A_Thinker]

So it's just a coincidence that Jesus and Peter are both called "rock"?

Every believer is, ultimately, called a rock ... by Peter ...

 

[A_Thinker]

Earlier in Galatians we read how the HS sent Paul to Peter and other elders of the Church in order that they approve what Paul was preaching. That demonstrates that Paul was subject to Peter's leadership.

Paul says that he went to meet with, essentially, the trifecta of the Church's leadership at that time ... Peter, James, and John ...

 

[A_Thinker]

In which verse does Jesus say the apostles will have no leader?

Matthew 20

25 But Jesus called them unto Him and said, “Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.

26 But it shall not be so among you; but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

27 and whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant,

 

[A_Thinker]

My understanding is, Peter did not become the "rock" until the Holy Spirit descended on the Church on the day of Pentecost

This is rather facile.

Peter is who he is when Jesus renames him ... a quite fallible disciple ...

 

[Buzzard3]

Every believer is, ultimately, called a rock ... by Peter ...

... but Jesus formally gave the name "rock" to ONLY Peter (John 1:42).

 

[Buzzard3]

Paul says that he went to meet with, essentially, the trifecta of the Church's leadership at that time ... Peter, James, and John ...

For starters, the Holy Spirit sent Paul to the Church ... to explain his gospel to them .... for approval ... "lest" his preaching be "in vain". In other words, Paul was under their authority.