Dear Protestants ... please explain John 1:42

Buzzard3

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John 1:42 describes the very first time Jesus met Simon, who became an apostle (aka Peter). Jesus said to Simon, "You are Simon, the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas (which translates as 'Peter' and means 'rock')".

Why did Jesus give the name "rock" to a man he'd just met ... in fact it was the very first thing he ever said to him!

You don't know? Well, here's a hint: Read Matt 16:18
 
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Amittai

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My multi-denominational take: it applies to those who accept His revelation and (from meaning) doesn't uniformly entail substantial inheritance through being in post or location, no matter that this may have happened ad hoc for a while or whiles.

Whether it was especially prophesied that there would always be someone erratic in post, or whether that was merely self-fulfilling, I'm not going to get into. Certainly the pressures are immense and we should pray for the fruitfulness and safety of all our pastors and co members of our denominations without exception.

(Other than that it's the same play on anyone called Rock Hudson or Perry Stone if He had seen that they fit it. Plays on words and names were considered normal then.

Seeing as they were something like third cousins in the same neighbourhood they would have conversed prior to then. Scriptures are snapshots that pick up stories in the middle.)
 
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BobRyan

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John 1:42 describes the very first time Jesus met Simon, who became an apostle (aka Peter). Jesus said to Simon, "You are Simon, the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas (which translates as 'Peter' and means 'rock')".

Why did Jesus give the name "rock" to a man he'd just met ... in fact it was the very first thing he ever said to him!

You don't know? Well, here's a hint: Read Matt 16:18

Petros is "pebble" , Petra is "foundation stone".

In Matt 7 we are told to "build on the ROCK (Petra)". In 1 Cor 10:4 Christ is the ROCK (Petra).

But in Matt 16 Jesus says Peter is the pebble "Petros" and a few verses later says to Peter "get thee behind me Satan".

1 Cor 3:11 "for no man can lay a foundation (PETRA) other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ
 
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SuperCow

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John 1:42 describes the very first time Jesus met Simon, who became an apostle (aka Peter). Jesus said to Simon, "You are Simon, the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas (which translates as 'Peter' and means 'rock')".

Why did Jesus give the name "rock" to a man he'd just met ... in fact it was the very first thing he ever said to him!

You don't know? Well, here's a hint: Read Matt 16:18

I'm confused. Why should this be a problem for protestants (or any other related sect)?
 
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BobRyan

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I'm confused. Why should this be a problem for protestants (or any other related sect)?

There are those who would argue that the one foundation upon which the church is established is Peter, and then that tradition in the church always looked for and selected a successor to Peter as time went on.

Most Protestants argue that it is Christ (who has no successor) as can be seen here
45 minutes ago #4
 
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tampasteve

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Look, anyone around this conversation long enough knows that there are literally volumes of literature written in support of both sides of this discussion. In the end we all have to weigh this claim in light of the larger discussion on the Primacy of Peter and how that looked historically. I don't feel that the claim holds much water when looked at how things actually seemed to focus in the Church pre-Middle ages. Rome just did not have the reach that the RCC want's to portray that it did. It seems to be, at best, a "First among equals" situation.

The explanation of the "rock" being the "Christ" fits the reality of the situation much better than an imperialistic claim of headship.
 
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ViaCrucis

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John 1:42 describes the very first time Jesus met Simon, who became an apostle (aka Peter). Jesus said to Simon, "You are Simon, the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas (which translates as 'Peter' and means 'rock')".

Why did Jesus give the name "rock" to a man he'd just met ... in fact it was the very first thing he ever said to him!

You don't know? Well, here's a hint: Read Matt 16:18

I don't think there's any disagreement among Christians of any variety that Simon bar Jonah was given the name Cephas/Peter by Jesus.

Where disagreement comes into it is what Jesus means "upon this rock I will build My Church".

When we look at the Fathers of the Church, it's hardly as simple as "Peter is the rock, and therefore the successor of St. Peter has a position of primacy". In fact, that isn't the argument the ancient Fathers take.

St. Augustine, for instance, points to the "Rock" upon which the Church is built is Christ Himself, as he writes in his Exposition on the Psalms (see Exposition on the Psalms, LXI.3). St. John Chrysostom identifies the "Rock" as St. Peter's confession in his Homilies on Matthew (see Homily 54 on Matthew, 3). While it is also true that Tertullian and Cyprian seem to identify Peter himself as the rock.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Hammster

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John 1:42 describes the very first time Jesus met Simon, who became an apostle (aka Peter). Jesus said to Simon, "You are Simon, the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas (which translates as 'Peter' and means 'rock')".

Why did Jesus give the name "rock" to a man he'd just met ... in fact it was the very first thing he ever said to him!

You don't know? Well, here's a hint: Read Matt 16:18
You are assuming that they just met that day. The text doesn’t say that.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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John 1:42 describes the very first time Jesus met Simon, who became an apostle (aka Peter). Jesus said to Simon, "You are Simon, the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas (which translates as 'Peter' and means 'rock')".

Why did Jesus give the name "rock" to a man he'd just met ... in fact it was the very first thing he ever said to him!

You don't know? Well, here's a hint: Read Matt 16:18
Simply as a means for showing a new purpose for the person.
Blessings
 
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ViaCrucis

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it is a textual issue, is the rock a pebble or little stone. is the church built on the little stone or built on the rock of Christ.

that is usually how it is explained.

This argument tends to ignore the fact that the words are simply cased grammatically, Petros is masculine while petra is feminine.

It also ignores that, in Aramaic, there wouldn't be any difference, both would be kepha.

There are arguments to be made that the Rock upon which the Church is built is Christ Himself or Peter's confession of faith; but this particular argument probably isn't the best.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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SuperCow

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I don't think it matters whether Christ is referring to Peter as a rock. It's a metaphor to establish that Peter will help to build the faith, which he did. How that would automatically transfer to a line of future popes I don't quite get. I think the whole point of the Old Testament seems to be that man can't be trusted to rule themselves theologically.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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John 1:42 describes the very first time Jesus met Simon, who became an apostle (aka Peter). Jesus said to Simon, "You are Simon, the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas (which translates as 'Peter' and means 'rock')".

Why did Jesus give the name "rock" to a man he'd just met ... in fact it was the very first thing he ever said to him!

You don't know? Well, here's a hint: Read Matt 16:18
Hi in Mathew 16 the rock being referred to as the foundation of the church is not Peter. They were asked who do you say that I am? by Jesus.

Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”


Now this is the foundation of the church the very statement. Peter proves this twice acts 4

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: 9 If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, 10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’[fn] 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”


then in 1 Peter 2
4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”[fn]
7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,[fn]
“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”[fn]
8 and
“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”[fn]
 
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BBAS 64

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Good Day,

Historically the best specific understanding of the Christian Faith is given by Augustine, although Ambrose in the wider the context and application is most helpful.

Augustine:


Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18). Such faith was drowned when the Lord was crucified. Peter, you see, only believed he was the Son of God up to the time he saw him hanging on the tree, the time he saw him fixed there with nails, the time he saw him dead, the time he saw him buried. Then he lost what he held. Where's the rock? Where's the immovable solidity of the rock? Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived.

When Christ said, Who do you say that I am? Peter answered, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. And the Lord said to him: Blessed are you Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, as it has to those who call me a prophet, but my Father, who is in heaven; and I say to you, you are Peter (Mt. 16:15-18). You have said to me, let me say to you; you have made your confession of faith, now hear my blessing.
You see, the Lord had said about himself what was less important, and Peter had told him what was more important. In the Lord Jesus Christ, after all, what was less important was his being the Son of man; what was more important was his being the Son of God. He mentioned the less important thing, because he humbled himself; the one whom he exalted mentioned the more important one. Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18).




Ambrose

He, then, who before was silent, to teach us that we ought not to repeat the words of the impious, this one, I say, when he heard: 'But who do you say I am,' immediately, not unmindful of his station, exercised his primacy, that is, the primacy of confession, not of honor; the primacy of belief, not of rank...This, then, is Peter who has replied for the rest of the Apostles; rather, before the rest of men. And so he is called the foundation, because he knows how to preserve not only his own but the common foundation. Christ agreed with him; the Father revealed it to him. For he who speaks of the true generation of the Father, received it from the Father, did not receive it from the flesh. Faith, then, is the foundation of the Church, for it was not said of Peter's flesh, but of his faith, that 'the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.' But his confession of faith conquered hell. And this confession did not shut out one heresy, for, since the Church like a good ship is often buffeted by many waves, the foundation of the Church should prevail against all heresies. The day will fail me sooner than the names of heretics and the different sects, yet against all is this general faith-that Christ is the Son of God, and eternal from the Father, and born of the Virgin Mary.

In Him,

Bill
 
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Aussie Pete

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John 1:42 describes the very first time Jesus met Simon, who became an apostle (aka Peter). Jesus said to Simon, "You are Simon, the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas (which translates as 'Peter' and means 'rock')".

Why did Jesus give the name "rock" to a man he'd just met ... in fact it was the very first thing he ever said to him!

You don't know? Well, here's a hint: Read Matt 16:18
*sigh* there are two words used for rock. Peter is the word "Petros" in Greek. The rock Jesus referred to is "Petra". Petros means a pebble or a small stone. "Petra" means bedrock or a large boulder used as a cornerstone. It's a clever play on words. We might call someone Rocky these days. You don't build anything on a pebble.

The Church is built on Christ, the stone that the builders rejected. Peter saw from God that Lord Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. It is that truth that the church is built on, not Peter. Lord Jesus is head of the Church (Colossians 1:8, Ephesians 5:23, Ephesians 1:22)

There is zero justification for making a man head of the church. Hint. Roman Catholicism builds the papacy on a false interpretation of Matthew 16:18
 
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Aussie Pete

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This argument tends to ignore the fact that the words are simply cased grammatically, Petros is masculine while petra is feminine.

It also ignores that, in Aramaic, there wouldn't be any difference, both would be kepha.

There are arguments to be made that the Rock upon which the Church is built is Christ Himself or Peter's confession of faith; but this particular argument probably isn't the best.

-CryptoLutheran
In common usage at the time, Petros and Petra were used in a different sense. Petros refers to a stone or pebble. Petra refers to bedrock or a large boulder used as a cornerstone. The New Testament was written in Greek, not Aramaic. Three of the writers were there to listen to the conversation. I have no doubt that they understood exactly what Lord Jesus was saying. And for sure it was not that Peter was the first pope.
 
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ViaCrucis

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In common usage at the time, Petros and Petra were used in a different sense. Petros refers to a stone or pebble. Petra refers to bedrock or a large boulder used as a cornerstone. The New Testament was written in Greek, not Aramaic. Three of the writers were there to listen to the conversation. I have no doubt that they understood exactly what Lord Jesus was saying. And for sure it was not that Peter was the first pope.

My concern is purely with the meaning of the text.

It would be impossible to call Simon bar Jonah "Petra", since "Petra" would be the feminine; the only form that could be applied as a male name in Greek is Petros, the masculine.

Even assuming for this petros/petra distinction (which I would be curious to have some solid evidence and examples in standard Greek usage), the most obvious reason for the difference is because we are dealing with grammatical gender.

I agree that Jesus wasn't necessarily saying that Peter himself is "The Rock" upon which the Church is built; there is obvious word play here in that Simon is being called "The Rock" on account of his confession of faith, and it is upon Christ Himself and that confession that He is the Christ is the foundation, "The Rock" upon which the Church is built.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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A_Thinker

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John 1:42 describes the very first time Jesus met Simon, who became an apostle (aka Peter). Jesus said to Simon, "You are Simon, the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas (which translates as 'Peter' and means 'rock')".

Why did Jesus give the name "rock" to a man he'd just met ... in fact it was the very first thing he ever said to him!

You don't know? Well, here's a hint: Read Matt 16:18
Because Peter was a rock, along with the rest of the Apostles, along with the Prophets, along with every believer, ... along with Jesus, the Cornerstone ...

Ephesians 2:19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, ...

And Peter, Himself, speaks ...

Acts 4

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: 9 If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, 10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

1 Peter 2

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
 
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Aussie Pete

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My concern is purely with the meaning of the text.

It would be impossible to call Simon bar Jonah "Petra", since "Petra" would be the feminine; the only form that could be applied as a male name in Greek is Petros, the masculine.

Even assuming for this petros/petra distinction (which I would be curious to have some solid evidence and examples in standard Greek usage), the most obvious reason for the difference is because we are dealing with grammatical gender.

I agree that Jesus wasn't necessarily saying that Peter himself is "The Rock" upon which the Church is built; there is obvious word play here in that Simon is being called "The Rock" on account of his confession of faith, and it is upon Christ Himself and that confession that He is the Christ is the foundation, "The Rock" upon which the Church is built.

-CryptoLutheran
Impossible? You'd have to talk to Matthew to find out why it is written that way.
 
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