WHY UNIVERSALISM IS NOT TRUE?

[ozso]

There are two ways to know if a prophet is a false one.

The first is to determine if what they procliam is actually biblical or is it not.

The second is to see if what they predict comes true. If it doesn't, they are a false prophet.

The type of prophet that was being discussed isn't someone who predicts future events. The online self proclaimed prophets I'm thinking of are so cryptic it's hard to tell what they're saying, much less put it to the test.

 

[ozso]

No I was quoting the article I linked to. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Glad to know you are not a universalist.

This has been an interesting conversation and it appears the universalists don't even believe all the same way either. One thing they do have in common though is that the doctrine is not supported by scripture.

You know I've heard that Pentecostalism isn't supported by scripture either.

 

[ozso]

Im sorry I should’ve agreed with that post I was quoting because aionios does not always mean eternal or everlasting. The point I was trying to make is that it can mean everlasting or eternal but it can also refer to a limited amount of time like you said until the end of a particular age, like for example until the end of this world etc. Now aeon always refers to something eternal or everlasting So I apologize for not fully clarifying I’m at work and often have to make quick replies so sometimes they’re not very comprehensive.

*smiles and nods* I often post at work from my phone as well.

 

[ozso]

Your response here...

What do you mean that is a strawman? It is not a strawman at all. Universalism teaches that God throws all the wicked in the lake of fire torturing them into repentance forcing all the wicked to repent and follow him before he gives them eternal life. I mean what kind of God is that? Not one of the bible or supported in the scriptures.

I have never heard or read a universalist or universalism say or teach that.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I have never heard or read a universalist or universalism teach that.

Really I have and discussed this very topic with other Universalists here in this forum. You might need to speak to more Universalists.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

We have a common understanding about what it means to be a tyrant. If what you claim is true then God would fit the definition. The definition doesn't apply only to humans. It is your description of God that makes him a tyrant. As I said, I don't believe he is a tyrant.

I do not believe in everlasting punishment. For me it sounds like Universalism makes God more of a tyrant by throwing the wicked in the lake of fire after the second coming and the judgement and forcing them into repentance and following him before he gives them eternal life.

 

[Saint Steven]

You know I've heard that Pentecostalism isn't supported by scripture either.

That is the position of Cessationists, the opposing view is Continuationist.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I do not believe in everlasting punishment. For me it sounds like Universalism makes God more of a tyrant by throwing the wicked in the lake of fire after the second coming and the judgement and forcing them into repentance and following him before he gives them eternal life.

How many times lol, there's no 'forcing them into repentance'.

It's like there's some guy you see around, you don't know but instinctively don't like, and then one day he happens to save your kid from drowning at the beach (at great personal risk) while you're distracted. Suddenly your view of that guy changes radically, you now owe him a debt of gratitude, and you're humbled to realise your previous opinion was baseless and prejudiced.

See, nobody forced you to like the guy, it was his heroic intercession on behalf of a stranger that changed your heart towards him. And so it is with those who don't know Christ, once the truth of what he has done becomes clear, the heart is humbled, the esteem and gratitude flows forth, that's just how it works.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

How many times lol, there's no 'forcing them into repentance'.

It's like there's some guy you see around, you don't know but instinctively don't like, and then one day he happens to save your kid from drowning at the beach (at great personal risk) while you're distracted. Suddenly your view of that guy changes radically, you now owe him a debt of gratitude, and you're humbled to realise your previous opinion was baseless and prejudiced.

See, nobody forced you to like the guy, it was his heroic intercession on behalf of a stranger that changed your heart towards him. And so it is with those who don't know Christ, once the truth of what he has done becomes clear, the heart is humbled, the esteem and gratitude flows forth, that's just how it works.

I see a lot of words but no scripture in this post. Where is the scriptures that teach that in contradiction of over 100+ scriptures provided on page one of the OP showing that the wicked will be destroyed after the second coming does it say in the bible that the wicked in their unbelief and sin will receive everlasting life after the second coming and judgement? - There is none. My bible says very simply in the very words of Jesus "He that believes on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him." - John 3:36

Take Care.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I see a lot of words but no scripture. Where is the scriptures that teach that in contradiction of over 100+ scriptures provided on page one of the OP showing that the wicked will be destroyed after the second coming does it say in the bible that the wicked in their unbelief and sin will receive everlasting life after the second coming and judgement? - There is none.

I'm trying to give you a simple illustration of how salvation changes the heart. The Bible is chock-full of these kinds of examples, all the men and women God raises up should evoke that kind of response. That's a big reason why reading scripture is so edifying. Why do you reject this fundamental reality?

Who should not fear You, O Lord, and will glorify Your name? For You alone are holy. For all the nations will come and will worship before You, because Your righteous acts have been revealed. (Rev 15:4)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I'm trying to give you a simple illustration of how salvation changes the heart. The Bible is chock-full of these kinds of examples, all the men and women God raises up should evoke that kind of response. That's a big reason why reading scripture is so edifying. Why do you reject this fundamental reality?

Who should not fear You, O Lord, and will glorify Your name? For You alone are holy. For all the nations will come and will worship before You, because Your righteous acts have been revealed. (Rev 15:4)

There is no scripture in all of the bible that says that the wicked will be given second chances at the second coming. The scriptures teach that the wicked will not see life as shown in 100+ scriptures in the OP and again here in the very words of Jesus "He that believes on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him." - John 3:36. Our salvation is conditional on believing and obeying what Gods' Word says. Thank you but I prefer what the bible says.

Take Care.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Our salvation is conditional on believing and obeying what Gods' Word says.

And as I'm at pains to illustrate, the response to being saved (or having the great revelation of salvation) is belief and obedience.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

And as I'm at pains to illustrate, the response to being saved (or having the great revelation of salvation) is belief and obedience.

Yes but the wicked in sin and unbelief do not have this and therefore according to Jesus will not see life *John 3:36. See also further scripture support here linked.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Yes but the wicked in sin and unbelief do not have this and therefore according to Jesus will not see life *John 3:36

They continue in sin and unbelief until the sin and unbelief is destroyed. It is destroyed when salvation hits home, and they're humbled by how blind and foolish they were. The hardest nuts to crack are the religious types, as Jesus shows us.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

They continue in sin and unbelief until the sin and unbelief is destroyed. It is destroyed when salvation hits home, and they're humbled by how blind and foolish they were. The hardest nuts to crack are the religious types, as Jesus shows us.

Where does it teach in the bible that this will happen to the unrepentant wicked who continue in sin and unbelief after judgement and the second coming? I see the teaching your promoting as being in contradiction to *John 3:36 and a further 100+ scriptures already provided here linked that are in disagreement with what your saying here. You cannot see this SM?

 

[enoob57]

Our salvation is conditional on believing and obeying what Gods' Word says.

There are two types of motivations that people obey God:
1. This is what I must do to be saved...
2. I do this because of the love God has placed within for Him...

Of course you do not have to answer me but if I may which are you?

 

[Saint Steven]

The hardest nuts to crack are the religious types, as Jesus shows us.

Exactly.
I love this comment.

Matthew 21:31 NIV
... Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

There are two types of motivations that people obey God:
1. This is what I must do to be saved...
2. I do this because of the loved God has placed within for Him...

Of course you do not have to answer me but if I may which are you?

I love God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's the point. Aionios doesn't mean eternal. A translation bias (error) is indicated.

it can mean eternal but it doesn’t always mean eternal.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Where does it teach in the bible that this will happen to the unrepentant wicked who continue in sin and unbelief after judgement and the second coming? Your view is in contradiction to *John 3:36 and a further 100+ scriptures already provided here linked that disagree with you.

None continue in sin and unbelief once the obstacles have been removed. I don't believe any of those scriptures support the proposition that man's will to stay wicked can hold out against God's will to have him come to the truth. At worst, they merely stay outside the New Jerusalem until they've washed the robes in the Lake of Fire, which is where salvation takes place.