Without goading, it's now 2022. What timetables proved incorrect?

[keras]

Of course, the flood killed all unbelievers in Noah's day. Jesus Himself said "That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man" (Matt 24:37-39). This leaves no mortals to populate the earth after His return. So, what do you do about this? Accept that Amil is true? No, you can't do that. So, you come up with the completely unsupportable idea that people will be resurrected with mortal bodies at that time and they will be the ones to repopulate the earth. But, scripture never teaches a future mass resurrection where people will have mortal bodies.

This sort of belief, makes a total contradiction and denial of all the prophesies of Revelation from Rev 6:12 to Rev 10:10.
There must be many mortal survivors of the forthcoming event, the Lord's terrible Day of His fiery wrath.
As Revelation 6:15 and Isaiah 2:19-21 say: people will take shelter for one day that the earth will be affected.

They will form a One World Government, Daniel 7:23, but the faithful Christian peoples will establish there own state in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5, Romans 9:24-26

The only people who will be resurrected when Jesus Returns, a few years later; will be those killed for their faith during the 3 1/2 year of world control by the leader of the OWG. Revelation 20:4

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The flood reference has to do with how people were acting before the flood, not the scope of the flood. They (people referenced) were living their lives like normal, not listening to the warnings.

It refers to that AND to the scope of the flood. It seems like you didn't read the whole passage. Take a look.

Matthew 24:37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Yes, He was saying the days before His coming would be like the days of Noah, but look at the part I bolded. He made the point that the flood "took them all away" and then said "That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man". So, He was saying that just as the flood killed all unbelievers in Noah's day, that's how it would be at His second coming as well. Other scripture like 2 Peter 3:3-13, 2 Thess 1:7-10 and Rev 19:17-18 teaches the same thing.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

This sort of belief, makes a total contradiction and denial of all the prophesies of Revelation from Rev 6:12 to Rev 10:10.

No, it does not. It correlates with what it says will happen at His second coming.

After a description of Jesus descending from heaven with His armies, it says this:

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Christ will destroy all of His enemies when He returns. The passage above is quite clear about that. It emphasizes that it will be all of them by saying it will include "free and slave", "great and small". None of His enemies will escape His wrath when He comes. What about His people then? Scripture says they will be changed and will put on immortality when He returns and will be caught up to meet Him in the air (1 Cor 15:22-23;50-56, 1 Thess 4:14-17). So, what mortals does that leave to populate the earth at that time? None.

There must be many mortal survivors of the forthcoming event, the Lord's terrible Day of His fiery wrath.
As Revelation 6:15 and Isaiah 2:19-21 say: people will take shelter for one day that the earth will be affected.

They will form a One World Government, Daniel 7:23, but the faithful Christian peoples will establish there own state in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5, Romans 9:24-26

The only people who will be resurrected when Jesus Returns, a few years later; will be those killed for their faith during the 3 1/2 year of world control by the leader of the OWG. Revelation 20:4

Your interpretation of those passages doesn't line up with what other passages of scripture teach, so you need to look at those passages again and find a way to not make them contradict other scripture like you're doing now.

 

[Hammster]

It refers to that AND to the scope of the flood. It seems like you didn't read the whole passage. Take a look.

Matthew 24:37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Yes, He was saying the days before His coming would be like the days of Noah, but look at the part I bolded. He made the point that the flood "took them all away" and then said "That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man". So, He was saying that just as the flood killed all unbelievers in Noah's day, that's how it would be at His second coming as well. Other scripture like 2 Peter 3:3-13, 2 Thess 1:7-10 and Rev 19:17-18 teaches the same thing.

Not really. At least not to the scope you are wanting it to be. He is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem, and we know that there was a time when the Jewish Christians were allowed to flee to the mountains.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Not really. At least not to the scope you are wanting it to be. He is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem, and we know that there was a time when the Jewish Christians were allowed to flee to the mountains.

Do you think your comments without accompanying scriptural support are supposed to be convincing?

Peter taught the same thing that Jesus taught in Matthew 24:35-39 here:

2 Peter 3:3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

Just as the world was destroyed by the flood in Noah's day "by the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire" (see 2 Peter 3:10-12) at Christ's second coming. Christ made the same point by saying "the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man" (Matt 24:38-39). Right before that Jesus also said "heaven and earth will pass away" (Matt 24:35). That is what will happen at His future return. The heavens and earth will pass away by being burned up and renewed, resulting in the new heavens and new earth.

 

[Hammster]

Do you think your comments without accompanying scriptural support are supposed to be convincing?

Peter taught the same thing that Jesus taught in Matthew 24:35-39 here:

2 Peter 3:3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

Just as the world was destroyed by the flood in Noah's day "by the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire" (see 2 Peter 3:10-12) at Christ's second coming. Christ made the same point by saying "the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man" (Matt 24:38-39). Right before that Jesus also said "heaven and earth will pass away" (Matt 24:35). That is what will happen at His future return. The heavens and earth will pass away by being burned up and renewed, resulting in the new heavens and new earth.

The last days he’s referring to are the last days of old covenant. He referring to the destruction of Jerusalem.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The last days he’s referring to are the last days of old covenant. He referring to the destruction of Jerusalem.

And you continue to just make comments without offering scriptural support. How nice.

The last day of the old covenant was the day Christ died on the cross.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

He was not referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in 2 Peter 3:3-13, he was referring to the destruction of the heavens and the earth. That has clearly not yet happened.

How else do you think the wicked and wickedness will be removed from the earth if not by fire?

 

[Hammster]

And you continue to just make comments without offering scriptural support. How nice.

The last day of the old covenant was the day Christ died on the cross.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

He was not referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in 2 Peter 3:3-13, he was referring to the destruction of the heavens and the earth. That has clearly not yet happened.

How else do you think the wicked and wickedness will be removed from the earth if not by fire?

I have the book of Hebrews, and the Olivet Discourse for support. I doubt you’d want me to quote all of that.

 

[eclipsenow]

And after the future resurrection? when that is past, it will be PAST, And ALL Christians will be preterists at that time. There will be no such thing as a futurist. That's what this means.

Oh - ha ha ha - now I get it.
You're looking past the eschaton.

I can't disagree.

Well well well.
We could be very near the same page then.

 

[eclipsenow]

The flood reference has to do with how people were acting before the flood, not the scope of the flood. They (people referenced) were living their lives like normal, not listening to the warnings.

But the way Jesus tells the story it took them totally by surprise.
So if it will be the same way with us, it will be a surprise. We'll be READY - as in prepared - if we are still in relationship with Christ. But it will be a total surprise.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I have the book of Hebrews, and the Olivet Discourse for support. I doubt you’d want me to quote all of that.

You should quote something if you want me to take you seriously. Your words alone don't mean much to me. The Olivet Discourse is both about the local destruction of Jerusalem that occurred in 70 AD as well as the global destruction that will occur at Christ's future second coming at the end of the age.

What do you have to show that the descriptions of the heaven and earth passing away and being burned up should not be taken literally? Was Peter comparing a figurative event to a literal event in 2 Peter 3:5-7? Is that something we would expect to see in scripture rather than a comparison of a literal event to another literal event?

Also, you didn't answer my question for some reason. How else do you think the wicked and wickedness will be removed from the earth if not by fire?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I was saved in 1971. I cannot count the number of times ministers have declared "the Lord is coming this year." After hearing this for 50 years, my ears have become numb to it.
I am with Paul. The Lord will not come for His people until after the antichrist shows up on the scene. Unless you see the man of sin on nightly news... just stop.
Until then, I am going to occupy.

I was under the impression that no one would be expecting it when He returns, which is why I keep telling people to stop expecting it so we can finally go home.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I was under the impression that no one would be expecting it when He returns,

That's not what Paul said. In 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4, Paul told the believers of that time that it wasn't necessary for him to write anything to them about the times and the seasons preceding the Lord's return because they already knew what preceded it and when to expect it.

"But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

It was just as Daniel 12:10 once said about that "time of the end": "...and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand."

Scripture says nothing about a universal ignorance of that "time of the end" (which, incidentally, is not speaking of an "end of time").

 

[Hammster]

But the way Jesus tells the story it took them totally by surprise.
So if it will be the same way with us, it will be a surprise. We'll be READY - as in prepared - if we are still in relationship with Christ. But it will be a total surprise.

Not us. The tribulation happened in 66-70AD.

 

[Hammster]

You should quote something if you want me to take you seriously. Your words alone don't mean much to me. The Olivet Discourse is both about the local destruction of Jerusalem that occurred in 70 AD as well as the global destruction that will occur at Christ's future second coming at the end of the age.

What do you have to show that the descriptions of the heaven and earth passing away and being burned up should not be taken literally? Was Peter comparing a figurative event to a literal event in 2 Peter 3:5-7? Is that something we would expect to see in scripture rather than a comparison of a literal event to another literal event?

Also, you didn't answer my question for some reason. How else do you think the wicked and wickedness will be removed from the earth if not by fire?

I don’t care if you take me seriously. There’s nothing I could post that would change your mind.

 

[eclipsenow]

Not us. The tribulation happened in 66-70AD.

The AOD - possibly.
The tribulation? We've been in it for 2000 years. That's what Revelation is all about. See Rev 1 where John says he shares in their troubles / tribulation

 

[Hammster]

The AOD - possibly.
The tribulation? We've been in it for 2000 years. That's what Revelation is all about. See Rev 1 where John says he shares in their troubles / tribulation

Revelation is mostly about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. It’s the great divorce of the harlot Israel, and revealing Christ’s new bride, the church.

 

[eclipsenow]

Revelation is mostly about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. It’s the great divorce of the harlot Israel, and revealing Christ’s new bride, the church.

I'm not convinced in a historicist-past reading. It's easy to reject futurist readings that make it mostly about us to jump back to a historicist-past reading that makes it ALL about them. Rather, it's more of a symbolic theology of suffering. It's still Amil, still not some future timetable to read. But there's a lot of strong evangelical work in this symbolic suffering sermon view - from Dr Paul Barnett's Apocalypse Now and Then through to the Bible Project videos.

 

[Hammster]

I'm not convinced in a historicist-past reading. It's easy to reject futurist readings that make it mostly about us to jump back to a historicist-past reading that makes it ALL about them. Rather, it's more of a symbolic theology of suffering. It's still Amil, still not some future timetable to read. But there's a lot of strong evangelical work in this symbolic suffering sermon view - from Dr Paul Barnett's Apocalypse Now and Then through to the Bible Project videos.

I’m convinced due to the strong scriptural support. If nothing else, “this generation” makes it about the generation that was the original audience.

 

[eclipsenow]

I’m convinced due to the strong scriptural support. If nothing else, “this generation” makes it about the generation that was the original audience.

Oh I agree! And there are many references to "Babylon" falling, etc. But it's less about Rome specifically and more about the very idea of God's enemies - like Gog / Magog in Ezekiel - being judged finally and for all time. In other words, yes, John is saying he shares their sufferings (tribulations) in chapter 1 and the time is near. It's about Rome persecuting the church. But in a way it is so symbolically written it's not just Rome he's focussing on. It's a bit different to say, Paul writing specifically to the Corinthians about their problems and we are all meant to learn from that. It's more like John is writing to the 7 churches which in a way represent warnings and encouragements to ALL churches - John writing about Roman persecution but so symbolically that it could be ALL persecuted churches in all generations. See the difference? This is pretty much the stance of Phd in history and Theologian Dr Paul Barnett. He conducted tours of the Middle East and bible lands for many years, and taught history at Macquarie University as well as his time in ministry. He was a Sydney Anglican Bishop when he retired. He draws on the Roman imagery throughout Revelation - but also points out how stylistic and symbolic the writing is so that it also applies to all Christians suffering. Or tempted by success and wealth! It's all in there - if only people would stop trying to read it as a time-table!