Are NC Christians Lawless like Sabbath observers Claim?

[YeshuaFan]

The Sabbath sign are those who obey and are God’s people. That’s what the scripture says. Exodus 31:16-17, Ezekiel 20:20

This all comes down to who one worships. God in Truth and Spirit on His authority or what was changed by man that Jesus warns us of worshipping in vain by obeying traditions over the commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9

You will not find circumcision in the personally written Ten Commandments by God, Paul tells us to obey the Commandments of God, that is what matters, not circumcision. Circumcision of the heart, cutting away the sins is now demonstrated through baptism.

NEVER was given to the Church to observed in any NT epistle!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

NEVER was given to the Church to observed in any NT epistle!

The Church is God's people, those who follow God's Word, His saints. God's people and Jesus kept the Sabbath commandment all throughout the NT.

God wrote His laws in our hearts and minds in the new Covenant. Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10 This is all of His laws, including the Sabbath commandment. Just like it is a sin to murder or commit adultery in the New Covenant, James 2:10-12 so is it to break God's Sabbath commandment. These commandments came in a covenant of Ten Exodus 34:28 and you break one commandment it is like breaking them all James 2:10-12. Thats why we that the Sabbath is still a commandment in the NT Luke 23:56 and Jesus who is our example to follow kept the commandments and the Sabbath as our example. Luke 4:16-22, John 15:10 the apostles kept the Sabbath Acts 18:4 and why the Sabbath will continue to be God's chosen day for eternity as the day of worship says the Lord Isaiah 66:23

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I'm not offended. I know it's in scripture I'm just not using it to transcend the tablets beyond their context..

God wrote His law with His own finger, which is a fact, not an opinion so how is that transcended beyond its context when I quoted it exactly from scripture?

if the law of God is not on tablets of stone why are we looking to tablets of stone to define the law of God? We should be looking to the tablets on our hearts which is the letter of Christ, not the letter of law. (1 Cor 3:2-3)

What is important is what the tablets say, they were written on stone for their eternal nature, not written on paper or sand. God wrote those same laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant. Hebrews 8:10, Jeremiah 31:33. This of course includes the holy day of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 which is why we see the Sabbath written over 50 times in the NT. Still a commandment Luke 23:56, still the day Jesus kept as our example Luke 4:16-22, the day the apostles kept as our example Acts 18:4. The Sabbath is still the day to keep for the people of God Hebrews 4:9-10. Still the chosen day the Lord tells us the saints will be worshipping Him on for eternity Isaiah 66:23

If you are keeping the Spirit of the law, the letter is also kept. For example, Jesus said murder begins in the heart. Jesus wants us changed from the inside out, so if we are not thinking bad thoughts towards our neighbor, we won't be literally killing anyone becuase that's where it starts. Does this mean Jesus gives us a license to commit murder? Of course not. So, if you are in the Spirit, you are keeping the letter. Jesus provides us the Holy Spirit so we can obey the commandments. John 14:15-18 Acts 5:32

you've restricted "least of these commandments" to a 10 commandments vacuum.

Please quote me where I said we only need to keep the Ten Commandments? The Sabbath is part of God's laws and it's not wise to teach people to "forget" the one commandment God said to "Remember" and uses the word "holy" and "blessed"

clearly, there are laws we no longer keep... like circumcision but circumcision doesn't seem to register in this list of the commandments because if it did it would defeat your logic. You've effectively done exactly what Jesus said he wasn't going to do by erasing hundreds of laws so you can prop up a single commandment.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I prefer the Word of God. There is no scripture that says the 4th commandment has been deleted in the entire bible. Paul said what matters IS keeping the commandments of God. 1 Cor 7:19

fulfilled law does not need to be repeated over and over again because it's fulfilled, sacrificial law clearly shows us that. We do not break the law when it is fulfilled because we are not under the requirement of the law to break. If I graduate school I no longer attend class, take tests, or raise my hand to ask questions. These are all "rules" in a school vacuum that when broken there are penalties but once you graduate you can honourably remove yourself from the class without violating or breaking anything. The class is not abolished but rather honored and its diploma hung on a wall. Jesus was talented with words, nothing he said was limited to its surface meaning.

Fulfilled does not mean the opposite of what Jesus said. Jesus said Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Does not sound like any commandment has ended or Jesus is okay with us breaking.

Fulfill the law means to fill-full. For example, if I fulfill my marriage vows it means I am keeping them, not throwing them away so I can violate them.

We will have to agree to disagree. No one will ever convince me that we can profane God's holy day. God is the One who chooses the day that is holy to Him and for us. God did and He said it is the seventh day. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 God said it, God wrote it and I believe it. Take care.

 

[eleos1954]

The SDA church teaches the visions of Ellen White, their prophet. "But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth." {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

If that isn't justification by works of the law of the now defunct old covenant I will eat your hat.
Galatians 2:16
know that a man is not justified by works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.


You tell me. Is it the one that required Israelites to wear tzitzits and pay tithe with animals and produce? Is it the, incomplete sinful ways we can do harm to our fellow man, ten commandments?

What law, wearing tzitzits? The Law was 613 commands. Every law that was written in the Book of the Law. Are the laws God wrote with His finger any more sinful to commit than the laws that God spoke with His mouth?


Are you telling us that the thief on the Cross wasn't prepared to enter Heaven? I say bologna.


The Royal Law of Love. Amen!

Are the laws God wrote with His finger any more sinful to commit than the laws that God spoke with His mouth?

The law He wrote and spoke were the 10 ..... not 613 ... the 10 are the Royal Law of Love and are to be kept out of love and for no other reasons.

John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."

John 14:23
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love.

1 John 2:3
By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome,

2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love.

The 7th day Sabbath isn't a tradition, it's a day God created and nowhere in His Word was it done away with .... Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath .... and we are to follow in His steps.

The commandment to love they neighbor is a sum of the 10.

"Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor.

Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law" (Romans 13:8-10)

The thief on the cross ....

Some will be like the thief on the cross with little or no opportunity to serve the Lord and be will be saved ... Others among us will be regularly fed from Scripture and will choose to walk in His ways because we love Him .... and out of love will share the gospel with others.

Salvation is up to the Lord ... only He knows the heart and the sincerity of it.

Does the Holy Spirit help you overcome sin? What is sin? .... transgression of the law. What law?

Judgement can not take place without law .... all will be judged by the law .... and judgement is totally up to Jesus. AMEN! Some will be condemned ... some not, who He applies His blood to is up to Him .... and who are we to presuppose who that is ... or isn't? like we know? No, we do not .... we do not know the secret things only He does.

Romans 2

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous.

14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them 16 on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.

What law is written on the heart?

 

[YeshuaFan]

The Church is God's people, those who follow God's Word, His saints. God's people and Jesus kept the Sabbath commandment all throughout the NT.

God wrote His laws in our hearts and minds in the new Covenant. Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10 This is all of His laws, including the Sabbath commandment. Just like it is a sin to murder or commit adultery in the New Covenant, James 2:10-12 so is it to break God's Sabbath commandment. These commandments came in a covenant of Ten Exodus 34:28 and you break one commandment it is like breaking them all James 2:10-12. Thats why we that the Sabbath is still a commandment in the NT Luke 23:56 and Jesus who is our example to follow kept the commandments and the Sabbath as our example. Luke 4:16-22, John 15:10 the apostles kept the Sabbath Acts 18:4 and why the Sabbath will continue to be God's chosen day for eternity as the day of worship says the Lord Isaiah 66:23

Jesus kept the Sabbath as he was born under the law, and was operating under theOC!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus kept the Sabbath as he was born under the law, and was operating under theOC!

Maybe you can find this statement quoted in scripture. I see you only presented your opinion over the scriptures I posted so I will still beleive scripture that tells us to follow the example of Jesus. 2 Peter 2:21-22 No where does it say we should only follow only part of the example Jesus left. That is not biblical.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Do you know what the "shadow law" of circumcision represents and why God gave His people the sign of circumcision? Was circumcision given before sin or after sin and what was it's purpose? What about the creation Sabbath that God blessed and made a holy day for all mankind that is linked directly into the seventh day of the creation week on a continuous eternal weekly cycle? When was it made before sin or after mankind sinned and what is it's purpose? Which one, circumcision or Gods "seventh day" creation Sabbath is one of Gods' 10 commandments spoken and written by God alone on two tables of stone? Do you know why all these questions are important to the discussion? Why are you trying to compare the "shadows" with the eternal?

Your response here

Circumcision is a sign of the everlasting covenant between Abraham and God (and his descendants) but flesh preexisted this covenant going all the way back to Adam. The Sabbath law is a signed covenant between Israel and God. But God's rest preexisted the covenant agreement. You may say one is better than the other but they are both prescriptive from the same thing. If it wasn't for the fall there would be no Mt. Sinai event. We have Sabbath law because of sin not inspite of it.

Actually I did not say one law is better than another law. The post response you provided here does not answer any of the questions asked in it. I will show why these questions are important if your interested as shown below.

Do you know what the "shadow law" of circumcision represents and why God gave His people the sign of circumcision? Was circumcision given before sin or after sin and what was it's purpose?

The law of "circumcision" was a "shadow law" given after the fall when mankind sinned and became sinful by nature (sinful heart Genesis 6:5) and was physical sign that God would circumcise our hearts to love him with all of our hearts and minds and our neighbor as ourselves pointing to God's new covenant promise in Christ *Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Hebrews 8:10-12. So the physical sign of circumcision was a "shadow law" of Gods' promise in the new covenant that God would circumcise our hearts to walk in His laws (see also Deuteronomy 30:6; Jeremiah 4:4; Jeremiah 10:16; compare Romans 2:28-29; 1 Corinthians 7:19 and Hebrews 8:10). So the "shadow law" of "circumcision" is pointing to God's plan of salvation from sin in those who have been born again to believe and walk in God's Word *1 John 3:6-9; Galatians 5:16 through faith *Romans 3:31. So what is the difference here between circumcision and the Sabbath? Well beside the obvious being different laws, Gods' 4th commandment Sabbath was made before sin and before God's plan of salvation pointing backward not forward to things to come. Circumcision on the other hand was given after the fall when mankind sinned as a part of the "shadow laws" pointing to mankind's salvation from sin pointing to Gods' work in all sinners who need Christs salvation from sin. The Sabbath being made before sin cannot be a "shadow law" therefore because it was made before sin and not linked to Gods' plan of salvation from sin. The Sabbath is simply a "memorial" of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth and one of God's 10 commandments that show us our duty of love to God.

What about the creation Sabbath that God blessed and made a holy day for all mankind that is linked directly into the seventh day of the creation week on a continuous eternal weekly cycle? When was it made before sin or after mankind sinned and what is it's purpose?

According to the scriptures, God creation Sabbath is an everlasting covenant *Exodus 31:16 and a sign that God's people worship the only true God of creation forever *Exodus 31:17. The creation Sabbath is linked in to the "seventh day" of the week on a continuous weekly cycle every seventh day so it is everlasting because according to the scriptures God rested on the "seventh day" of the week from all His creation and "blessed" the "seventh day" and made the "seventh day" a holy day of rest for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:17). So according to the scriptures Gods' Sabbath is an eternal law that is everlasting and will be continued to be kept even after the second coming in the new heavens and the new earth according to the scriptures *Isaiah 66:22-23 unlike the physical sign of circumcision which was a "shadow law" of a new heart to be given by faith under Gods' new covenant promise in all those who believe and follow what God's Word says. The Sabbath being made before sin cannot be a "shadow law" therefore because it was made before sin and not linked to Gods' plan of salvation from sin. The Sabbath is simply a "memorial" of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth and one of God's 10 commandments that show us our duty of love to God.

Which one, circumcision or Gods "seventh day" creation Sabbath is one of Gods' 10 commandments spoken and written by God alone on two tables of stone?

According to the scriptures, God's 10 commandments unlike the physical sign of circumcision are Gods' eternal laws of love to God and man and teach us how we are to love God with all of our heart and all of our soul and mind and our neighbor as ourselves (see Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 22:36-40; Matthew 19:17-21; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-3; 1 John 2:3-4). The purpose of God's 10 commandments are to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) by breaking them and righteousness (moral right doing) by obeying them from the heart *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. They are all God's standard of right when obeyed and wrong when disobeyed and the standard of Christian living.

Do you know why all these questions are important to the discussion?

According to the scriptures these questions are all important because all the laws for remission of sins are all "shadow law" pointing to God's plan of salvation from sin for all mankind while all of God's 10 commandments are Gods' eternal laws and the standard or knowledge of good and evil. God's 4th commandment Sabbath of God's 10 commandments is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and according to James if we knowingly break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. It is impossible for God's creation Sabbath to be a shadow law of anything as it was made before sin and before Gods' plan of salvation was given to same mankind from sin and points backward to the finished work of God's creation as a memorial of creation and an everlasting sign to Gods' people that God is the creator of heaven and earth.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It's really only just one commandment. The others are virtually never mentioned.

Most people agree with the other 9 commandments. Most people have forgotten about Gods' 4th commandments despite God saying "Remember" - Exodus 20:8-11 in order to follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God's Word in order to break the commandments of God that Jesus warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9. Some people believe in lawlessness (with out law or Gods' law is abolished) to those we point to the scriptures that are in disagreement with them.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The 7th day was not a 24 hour day as the first 6 were, as God has been ongoing resting from his creation every since!

According to the scriptures there are seven days in the creation week and all of them are from evening to evening. Just like there are seven days in the week (not six). There is no scriptures that support a six day week and an everlasting seventh day. I am not sure where you get that teaching from but it is not biblical.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

NEVER was given to the Church to observed in any NT epistle!

According to the scriptures everyone of Gods' 10 commandments are all repeated throughout both the old and new covenant scriptures. You can read these scriptures in the new covenant shown here and here linked. Therefore according to the scriptures it remains or is left behind for the people of God to keep the Sabbath - Hebrews 4:9. Gods' Church is all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says. Not those who do not believe and do not follow according to the scriptures (see John 10:26-27; Matthew 7:21-23; see also 1 John 2:3-4)

Take Care.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Maybe you can find this statement quoted in scripture. I see you only presented your opinion over the scriptures I posted so I will still beleive scripture that tells us to follow the example of Jesus. 2 Peter 2:21-22 No where does it say we should only follow only part of the example Jesus left. That is not biblical.

Jesus ministered under the Old Covenant, but we now are under the new one!

 

[YeshuaFan]

According to the scriptures everyone of Gods' 10 commandments are all repeated throughout both the old and new covenant scriptures. You can read these scriptures in the new covenant shown here and here linked. Therefore according to the scriptures it remains or is left behind for the people of God to keep the Sabbath - Hebrews 4:9. Gods' Church is all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says. Not those who do not believe and do not follow according to the scriptures (see John 10:26-27; Matthew 7:21-23; see also 1 John 2:3-4)

Take Care.

Sabbath NEVER was brought back over into the NC!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Jesus kept the Sabbath as he was born under the law, and was operating under theOC!

According to the scriptures, no one is "under the law" unless they stand before God guilty of breaking the law (Romans 3:19) because breaking the law is sin according to the scriptures (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11). Jesus and the Apostles all taught obedience to Gods' law by faith that work's by love *Romans 3:31; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 19:17-21; Matthew 22:36-40; 1 John 2:3-4; Matthew 5:17 etc etc. According to the scriptures the purpose of God's 10 commandments in the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25; Matthew 9:12-13. According to James if we knowingly break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ According to the scriptures everyone of Gods' 10 commandments are all repeated throughout both the old and new covenant scriptures. You can read these scriptures in the new covenant shown here and here linked. Therefore according to the scriptures it remains or is left behind for the people of God to keep the Sabbath - Hebrews 4:9. Gods' Church is all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says. Not those who do not believe and do not follow according to the scriptures (see John 10:26-27; Matthew 7:21-23; see also 1 John 2:3-4)

Your response here..

Sabbath NEVER was brought back over into the NC!

Scriptures are provided in the post you are quoting from that disagree with your post here (see the linked posts). They are Gods' Words not mine so your argument here is not with me.

Take Care.

 

[Danthemailman]

Jesus kept the Sabbath as he was born under the law, and was operating under theOC!

Galatians 4:4 - But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law.

 

[Danthemailman]

Sabbath NEVER was brought back over into the NC!

Colossians 2:16 - Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Galatians 4:4 - But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law.

Which has a different meaning to...
Romans 3:19 [19], Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Colossians 2:16 - Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Which applied in context is talking about the meat and the drink offerings and the new moons and the sabbaths (not "the sabbath" of God's 4th commandment that gives us a knowledge of what sin is when broken - the Greek is N-GNP noun that is genitive neuter plural) in the feast days. Context matters.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Which has a different meaning to...
Romans 3:19 [19], Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

We are no longer under the Mosaic law, but under NT grace!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Which applied in context is talking about the meat and the drink offerings and the new moons and the sabbaths (not the sabbath of God's 4th commandment that gives us a knowledge of what sin is when broken - the Greek is N-GNP noun that is genitive neuter plural) in the feast days. Context matters.

sabbath never was placed back upon the Church!