Evolution happens

[Mr Laurier]

Evolution happens.
It has been happening a long time, and will happen as long as life continues to exist.

Evolution is not atheism. Nor does it invalidate christianity.
Much of the early work on understanding evolution was done by christians.

 

[trophy33]

Poor lawyers.

 

[Saucy]

I would disagree about the opening remarks that it's "totally devoted to the eradication of scientific fact."

1) What is a scientific fact? Is science not always growing, changing, and "evolving"? Especially when it comes to unobservable claims? It's not a fact that you claim something is between 10 million and 100 million years old.

2) Science is naturalistic by nature. It doesn't include even the hint of a possibility of a creator or supernatural God. If God exists, then that SHOULD change the game. Naturalistic processes should then be thrown out the window. What you say took billions of years could've taken the quick snap of God's finger.

3) There are creationist scientists who have PhDs and study in the realm of science. Just because they don't accept your status quo doesn't mean they aren't scientists. They just see the world differently.

4) Evolution does invalidate Christianity. Again, does God exist? If He does and He brought Jesus back from the dead, that defies science and logic. It's a supernatural event. Jesus spoke a lot about the flood and Adam and Eve. His own timeline begins with Adam in Luke. The whole idea is that man sinned in Genesis after creation and was redeemed by Jesus.

 

[honestal]

Surely, the following statement--considering who made it--is quite remarkable:

“To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.” (Darwin; Origin of the Species, chapter 6)

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Surely, the following statement--considering who made it--is quite remarkable:

“To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.” (Darwin)

Except that that quote has been taken out of context multiple times and if you read the rest of the quote, Darwin says:

"Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor, can be shown to exist; if further, the eye does vary ever so slightly, and the variations be inherited, which is certainly the case; and if any variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real."

 

[honestal]

Here's another remarkable quote:

“One of the reasons I started taking this anti-evolutionary view, was … it struck me that I had been working on this stuff for twenty years and there was not one thing I knew about it. That’s quite a shock to learn that one can be so misled so long. …so for the last few weeks I’ve tried putting a simple question to various people and groups of people. Question is: Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing that is true? I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago, a very prestigious body of evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said, ‘I do know one thing — it ought not to be taught in high school’.” (Dr. Colin Patterson, Senior Paleontologist; British Museum of Natural History)

 

[honestal]

Except that that quote has been taken out of context multiple times and if you read the rest of the quote, Darwin says:

"Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor, can be shown to exist; if further, the eye does vary ever so slightly, and the variations be inherited, which is certainly the case; and if any variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real."

Hi Warden (nice to meet you),

Darwin was a determined, committed evolutionist. So it certainly certain surprise one that he would find a way to harmonize what he observed with what he was determined to believe.

What he went on to say in no way lessons the remarkableness of his admission (at least in my mind).

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Here's another remarkable quote:

“One of the reasons I started taking this anti-evolutionary view, was … it struck me that I had been working on this stuff for twenty years and there was not one thing I knew about it. That’s quite a shock to learn that one can be so misled so long. …so for the last few weeks I’ve tried putting a simple question to various people and groups of people. Question is: Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing that is true? I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago, a very prestigious body of evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said, ‘I do know one thing — it ought not to be taught in high school’.” (Dr. Colin Patterson, Senior Paleontologist; British Museum of Natural History)

And? Evolution does not rest on quotes from just two people.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Hi Warden (nice to meet you),

Darwin was a determined, committed evolutionist.

What he went on to say in no way lessons the remarkableness of his admission (at least in my mind).

That comment makes no sense. Whether Darwin was an 'evolutionist' or a Christian (the latter of which he certainly was) does not invalidate that evolution is a fact of biological science. The theory of evolution doesn't end with Darwin.

 

[SkyWriting]

Full Text
00:08 here at kelso beach park and uh yeah i just got done work put in a good shift here to talk about again young earth
00:18 creationism ugh yeah seems that these guys just do not know
00:24 when to quit for some reason they insist on hiding behind whatever the dominant religion is of the country that they're in and
00:33 yeah no we're not buying it you are not representative of christianity just you are not
00:39 representative of islam and you are not representative of judaism you are representative solely of young earth creationism
00:50 which is its own unique and scary thing very scary thing yeah more political than religious but always utterly devoted to the
01:03 eradication of scientific fact and its replacement with a particular interpretation of religious mythology
01:15 wow i would think they'd have clued in by now the fact of the matter is the universe
01:26 is ancient the earth is not quite as ancient but it is very old and yes life evolves this is an observed
01:35 and documented process living things evolve not as individuals but as populations so no you will never see a dog
01:47 transforming into a cat the reason for this is very simple that would be creationism if a dog magically transformed into a
01:59 cat this would pretty much be a slam dunk for young earth creationism the fact that it does not happen
02:10 means that we can be pretty sure that the process of evolution is a very real thing a very real phenomenon that follows the rules
02:18 that are recognized by biological science as governing the process of evolution dogs do not become cats
02:28 cats do not become dogs although both are descended from a common ancestor just as you do not become your cousin
02:38 and your cousin does not become you but you're both descended from your grandpa from your grandfather that's how evolution works
02:47 dissent from a common ancestor descent from different ancestors different lineages think of it as a family tree
02:58 think of it as a complicated family tree but do not think of it as a ladder where everybody is trying to climb up because that is the medieval version of
03:08 evolution also called the great chain of being and the medieval christian monks narrowed it down pretty well at the very
03:16 top mighty lord jehovah right under him jesus then the angels and then the saints and then the popes
03:24 and then the kings and then the dukes and then the earls and then the barons and then the peasants and somewhere below them the noble
03:33 beasts like lions and tigers and wolves and then the ignoble beasts like goats and sheep and cattle and then below them
03:43 rats and below them worms and below them lawyers and below them though there was nothing below lawyers which proves that they were on the right track
03:54 thank you but that was evolution as it was understood by the medieval monks the medieval christian church
04:04 a thousand years ago because they recognized evolution but they called it the great chain of being as i said
04:12 the great chain of being and it was a ladder everybody striving upward plants striving to become animals animals striving to become higher animals still
04:21 higher animals striving to become people and people striving to become greater people until they achieved sainthood and then from there you could become an
04:30 angel but you could never become jesus the great chain of being the latter model of evolution developed by medieval christians
04:44 funny how that works don't you think i think it is in any case yeah
04:51 we now no longer think of a ladder a great chain of being we think of a tree or rather a complicated bush a thorn bush
04:59 a complicated thorn bush with multiple branches going off in all directions but converging on a central trunk which is the origin of life
05:12 tada simple and to the point and you'll notice that the origin of life is not the origin of humanity it is
05:19 not even the origin of mammals it is not even the origin of vertebrates that is the origin of single-celled creatures
05:28 and even pre-cellular creatures that didn't even have cells but they were alive but they hadn't yet developed cells
05:37 that is the origin of cellular life descended from non-cellular life and then working up from cellular to multicellular and then from
05:45 multicellular to multicellular with a division of labor and then working up from there to the first plants animals and fungi
05:57 yeah the division the great division that separates us from the oak tree and the mushroom
06:06 yeah simple and to the point ladies and gentlemen anywho
06:16 the great chain of being has been replaced decades centuries ago by the tree model developed by yes one mr charles darwin
06:28 man we can congratulate him for the tree model but this too was separated replaced with
06:35 it replaced by the bush model the tumbleweave model which is a better model because yes even darwin has been superseded
06:46 and we have moved on what you thought that everything we knew began and ended with darwin no
06:54 it began long before darwin and has continued long after him darwin was just one of many people who figured out one little detail
07:03 sexual selection him along with wallace and huxley figured out sexual selection based on the writings of a gentleman by the name of mr patrick matthews
07:14 who first proposed sexual selection but didn't understand the fine details of it darwin huxley and wallace figured out the
07:23 details and turned it from hypotheses into a theory gotta love that
07:33 in any case i gotta get home huh all you good people and not so good
07:42 people take care be well stay safe well look out for each other love each other if that way then that way too yes absolutely go for it enjoy tata take here be well stay safe have a nice day

 

[honestal]

That comment makes no sense. Whether Darwin was an 'evolutionist' or a Christian (the latter of which he certainly was) does not invalidate that evolution is a fact of biological science. The theory of evolution doesn't end with Darwin.

If you're open to hear the other side, here's something I think you'll find worth watching--and quite convincing (his DVDs on animals that defy evolution).

The Evolution of a Creationist | Jobe Martin | Creation vs. Evolution

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

If you're open to hear the other side, here's something I think you'll find worth watching (his DVDs on animals that defy evolution)

The Evolution of a Creationist | Jobe Martin | Creation vs. Evolution

I'm not going to buy DVDs from a Creationist to try and 'hear the other side'. I've been on this site and have seen many other arguments to know that from a scientific standpoint, Creationism has no basis as fact. It's not science.

 

[Whyayeman]

If you want a good example of evolution today, look no further than the emerging variants of Covid-19. An alpha variant virus mutated into the delta variant, which had some survival advantage over its progenitor. The omicron variant is also a mutation (of the alpha variant, probably).

We know pretty well that its advantage over the others is its property of relative mildness, giving it many more opportunities to spread.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Evolution happens.
It has been happening a long time, and will happen as long as life continues to exist.

Evolution is not atheism. Nor does it invalidate christianity.
Much of the early work on understanding evolution was done by christians.

Evolution does not happen. It's an insult to God to pretend that it does. Adaptation does happen. Evolutionists call it micro evolution then conflate that with macro evolution.

I was trained in electronics and I know something about industrial control systems. The idea that a cold blooded reptile could evolve into a warm blooded mammal is ridiculous. Until relatively recently, it was incredibly difficult to get accurate temperature control. Modern, programmable electronics make it easier. Programmable. A program has to be written. If there are any mistakes, it won't work.

Please tell me an example of evolution that is happening now?

DNA is the "program" that determines everything about a creature. To claim that it is purely a result of time plus chance makes about as much sense as expecting to get the works of Shakespeare out of an explosion in a scrabble factory.

No, evolution is not atheism but it does make God out to be a liar. I object to that. And evolution is the cornerstone of atheist belief.

 

[Aussie Pete]

If you want a good example of evolution today, look no further than the emerging variants of Covid-19. An alpha variant virus mutated into the delta variant, which had some survival advantage over its progenitor. The omicron variant is also a mutation (of the alpha variant, probably).

We know pretty well that its advantage over the others is its property of relative mildness, giving it many more opportunities to spread.

It's not evolving. It's adapting. It's still a virus and it's not even a new virus, just a variation. Some viruses mutate because of the structure of the virus. Other viruses do not change at all, no matter how long they've been in circulation. How come all viruses do not "evolve"? The simple answer is that evolution does not happen at all.

Calling adaptation "evolution" is intellectually dishonest.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I'm not going to buy DVDs from a Creationist to try and 'hear the other side'. I've been on this site and have seen many other arguments to know that from a scientific standpoint, Creationism has no basis as fact. It's not science.

The question is not whether or not it is scientific. Science has lost much credibility because so much is no longer science in the true sense of the word. The question should be, is it or is it not true? Evolution is unproveable. More, there are so many flaws in the concept that evolution should be scrapped as a theory.

So called science is now accepting that gender is a choice that people can make. Not only that, some scientists are being persecuted because they state that there are only two sexes.

You don't have to buy anything.

CEH – Creation Evolution Headlines
Science Against Evolution Official Home Page

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The question is not whether or not it is scientific. Science has lost much credibility because so much is no longer science in the true sense of the word. The question should be, is it or is it not true? Evolution is unproveable. More, there are so many flaws in the concept that evolution should be scrapped as a theory.

So called science is now accepting that gender is a choice that people can make. Not only that, some scientists are being persecuted because they state that there are only two sexes.

You don't have to buy anything.

CEH – Creation Evolution Headlines
Science Against Evolution Official Home Page

Your arguments are still the same old guff and you can't show that evolution isn't scientifically accurate.

 

[Ophiolite]

Here's another remarkable quote:

“One of the reasons I started taking this anti-evolutionary view, was … it struck me that I had been working on this stuff for twenty years and there was not one thing I knew about it. That’s quite a shock to learn that one can be so misled so long. …so for the last few weeks I’ve tried putting a simple question to various people and groups of people. Question is: Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing that is true? I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago, a very prestigious body of evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said, ‘I do know one thing — it ought not to be taught in high school’.” (Dr. Colin Patterson, Senior Paleontologist; British Museum of Natural History)

Given your highly questionable selective quotation of Darwin you will understand if I have zero confidence in the value of your latest quote.

Rather than relying upon quotes, I'll go with the research of the tens of thousands of scientists, many of them practicing Christians, in a score or more disciplines, whose millions of papers confirm that evolutionary theory is the best explanation for the diversity of life.

 

[Whyayeman]

Evolutionists call it micro evolution then conflate that with macro evolution.

I have never come across these terms. Evolution has been shown to occur at the level of bacteria. My example of our experience of Covid-19 is just another instance.

And evolution is the cornerstone of atheist belief.

I very much doubt whether many atheists would agree. It is certainly not the cornerstone for me, important though it is to me. I was an atheist before I had any notion of evolutionary science.

Calling adaptation "evolution" is intellectually dishonest.

Not so. Adaptation is a cornerstone of evolution and follows from Darwin's original work on the subject.

 

[Whyayeman]

Please tell me an example of evolution that is happening now?

Please refer to #13 and #19 above.