Is the Lord's Day Saturday according to Acts of John (Apocryphal)?

[Kilk1]

The reference does not say "on the seventh day of fasting". It simply says "on the seventh day, it being the Lords day" so the reference point here is to time that the fast ended. Of interest however, fasting was not normally allowed in the seventh day Sabbath in Judaism whether on Friday night or Saturday during the day, due to the mitzvah of "Oneg Shabbat"- One was required to enjoy the Sabbath. This obligation may be from the Torah, but present in Isaiah (58:13). Another proof text is Nehemiah 8:9-10: when people were weeping due to their sins on Rosh Hashana, Nehemia and the Levites and Priests commanded them to eat and drink "because this day is holy to Hashem". Similarly one is forbidden to fast on all holy days including Sabbath (aside from Yom Kippur, when fasting is explicitly commanded). The above therefore would agree with the Alexander Walker translation of the Acts of John posted in the OP and can indicate keeping the seventh day Sabbath and a reference to "the Lords day". However this is all not scripture and Apocrypha and should not be viewed above scripture in my view. There is no scripture that shows that Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day". There is scripture showing that "the Lords day" however is the Sabbath day.

Take Care.

Yeah, it doesn't say, "on the seventh day of fasting, it being the Lord's day." Neither does it say "on the seventh day of the week, it being the Lord's Day." So it depends in large part on other references, I suppose. The key point is that this text, by itself, doesn't prove either way.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yeah, it doesn't say, "on the seventh day of fasting, it being the Lord's day." Neither does it say "on the seventh day of the week, it being the Lord's Day." So it depends in large part on other references, I suppose. The key point is that this text, by itself, doesn't prove either way.

That is why your best not to look for the truth in Apocrypha as it is not scripture and is not God's Word. We are best sticking with the scriptures that are Gods' Word and there is not a single scripture in all of Gods' Word that says Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day". This is a man-made teaching and tradition by some in the early Church that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God that Jesus warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9.

Take Care.

 

[DamianWarS]

Hello! The other day, I was discussing Sabbatarianism on a thread, and @Torah Keeper said that the Acts of John (Apocryphal) supports the view that the Lord's Day is Saturday. Here's the text in question:

And on the seventh day, it being the Lord's day, he said to them: Now it is time for me also to partake of food. And having washed his hands and face, he prayed, and brought out the linen cloth, and took one of the dates, and ate it in the sight of all.​

To that, @Leaf473 replied, "To me, it's unclear if it refers to the 7th day of the week or the 7th Day of John's fast." Is @Leaf473's interpretation correct, or does the text support the idea that the Lord's Day is on the seventh day of the week? If the latter, then when was this text written? Thanks!

being an apocryphal book I'll start by saying the text itself has a suspicious or compromised motivation and/or authorship so we shouldn't hold on to ideas in this book too firmly. This means if it affirms the Lord's Day as the Sabbath or Sunday it doesn't hold a lot of weight alone and at best can only agree with existing ideas of when it was written (2nd century) but should not be looked at as presenting new information. The book is not about challenging when the Lord's day is and more motivated by gnostic ideas in them especially the concepts of supernatural strength given to John being able to go for days without eating and being able to drink poison. all reconcilable through the power of the Holy Spirit but this book presents it in a very gnostic way. After reading it I want the Holy Spirit not so I can spread the name of Christ but so I can have power myself.

with that natural read of the text to be suggests "the seventh day" is not regarding numerating the days of the week but a 7 day count from a starting point that is arbitrary to the days of the week. The author doesn't have to say the 7th day is the Sabbath because it's redundant and everyone already knows that. Likewise if the Lord's day was equally as known term the author shouldn't have to say that the nth day of the week is the Lord's day as everyone already knows when Lord's day is and it is sufficient to say it's the Lord's day. If the text were to say "And on the fourth day, it being the Lord's day..." there would be no dispute or confusion and we would know the referenced day is not a wednesday. Likewise if there text said the "tenth day" the meaning would be clear so why is it any different when saying the seventh? At best it's ambiguous but it cannot be used to affirm the Saturday Sabbath is the same as the Lord's Day.

In the bible when days of the week are numerated context is important. Jesus rose on the third day, but he did not raise on a tuesday simply because it says "third day". Typically the names of the days of the week are based on how far away they are from the Sabbath, and literally it's saying 1 of the Sabbath (for Sunday), 2 of the Sabbath (For Monday) 3 of the Sabbath (for Tuesday) and all the up to Friday which is called the preparation day. To this day in Greek the names of the days of the weeks are this way with the exception of Sunday which is called "Kyriakí" which has an evolved form of "kuriakos" (the bibled use for "The Lord's Day") and Saturday of course is Sabbath.

A biblical example is Acts 20:7 which states "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread" so what day of the week is this? it is literally "first of-the sabbaton" and a sabbaton is a reference to the day of Sabbath or the week as a whole. I speak a language (not Hebrew) where the name of Sunday and the name for Week are the same word. I'm familiar with this type of thinking by isolating a day or a week using the same word but sometimes it can be ambiguous too. In Acts 20:7 the "of-the" is a genitive article and literally is "the" with a possessive attached to it which connects "first" with "sabbaton" so "first of the week" but you could say "first of the sabbath" this however is not saying the first Saturday, but rather the first day from sabbath to sabbath or within a week, aka Sunday.

Hebrews is the exception to this and it just says "the seventh day" but the context is clear so there is no dispute to the meaning. referencing "the seventh day" without context can be seen as de facto Sabbath but with context it needs to be interpreted by the context. One issue with the Act of John is where's the original text? when it says "and on the seventh day..." what is it referencing? seventh day of what? reading the passage it seems to be the seventh day of a fast John was doing since he started travelling. He took with him a "few dates, and straightway went forth [to see the King of Rome]". during his travel he kept saying he didn't want to eat until finally the seventh day which apparently was the same day as the Lord's day, he decided to break his fast by eating a date. The context establishes the seventh day as not related to the week but related to how long John was fasting for or started his traveling. There's nothing in the text that suggests it was the Sabbath.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hebrews is the exception to this and it just says "the seventh day" but the context is clear so there is no dispute to the meaning. referencing "the seventh day" without context can be seen as de facto Sabbath but with context it needs to be interpreted by the context. One issue here is where's the original text? when it says "and on the seventh day..." what is it referencing? seventh day of what? reading the passage it seems to be the seventh day of a fast John was doing since he started travelling. He took with him a "few dates, and straightway went forth [to see the King of Rome]". during his travel he kept saying he didn't want to until until finally the seventh day which apparent was the same day as the Lord's day, he decided to break his fast with by eating a date. The context establishes the seventh day as not related to the week but related to how long John was fasting for or started his traveling. There's nothing in the text that suggests it was the Sabbath.

"And on the seventh day, it being the Lord's day, he said to them: Now it is time for me also to partake of food. And having washed his hands and face, he prayed, and brought out the linen cloth, and took one of the dates, and ate it in the sight of all."

I agree with a lot of your post here. However the reference from the Acts of John does not say on the seventh day of the fast it being the Lords day. There is no scripture anywhere in the bible that says Sunday or "the first of the week" is "The Lords day". The only scripture reference to "the Lords day" is Jesus being the Lord of "the Sabbath day". I agree though that the reference in the apocrypha is ambiguous and can be interpreted either way and like any apocrypha should not be relied on over scripture. If scripture is our main source of evidence then there is no scripture reference to Sunday or the first day of the week being "the Lords day". This of course being a man-made teaching and tradition that many of the early Church outside of the bible applied to Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This however is not supported in the scriptures and is not an argument in support of Sunday worship.

Take Care.

 

[Servus]

Yeah, it doesn't say, "on the seventh day of fasting, it being the Lord's day." Neither does it say "on the seventh day of the week, it being the Lord's Day." So it depends in large part on other references, I suppose. The key point is that this text, by itself, doesn't prove either way.

The only other reference is Revelation 1:10 and that also doesn't specify Saturday or Sunday. So there's nothing Biblical or apocryphal that says Saturday or Sunday is "The Lord's Day" using that specific wording in that order.

Therefore it has to be presumed that Christians came to call Sunday "The Lord's Day" of their own accord in recognition of the Resurrection.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yeah, it doesn't say, "on the seventh day of fasting, it being the Lord's day." Neither does it say "on the seventh day of the week, it being the Lord's Day." So it depends in large part on other references, I suppose. The key point is that this text, by itself, doesn't prove either way.

It's also worth noting that, even if we permit that it means the seventh day of the week, this would provide us with but a singular counter example among the myriad of references in orthodox writings. It is worth noting here that the Acts of John, at least in several places, demonstrate obvious heretical ideas; namely Docetic ones, such as Jesus not leaving foot prints on the sand.

I don't believe that the seventh day of the week is necessarily the most natural reading of the text, but even if that's the intended reading it is still one example in a fairly heretical work that stands in opposition to the full breadth of Christian witness on the other hand by faithful, orthodox Christians.

I would also point out that there's no point in trying to use an historical source outside of Scripture to make any kind of argument if one's position is that anything outside of Scripture doesn't matter at all. Making such an argument is disingenuous. It would be like a Muslim using the New Testament to try and discredit Christianity, but when presented with a solid New Testament grounded argument on the contrary responds that since the Qur'an disagrees, it doesn't matter anyway. To which the natural response might be, why even bring it up in the first place? The answer is because the goal was never to actually engage in a good faith debate or discussion in the first place, the goal was an attempt at polemics to undermine the opponent's faith, and when the tactic fails, one recoils to say it doesn't matter anyway. The same thing happens in reverse, I've seen over-zealous Christians try and use the Qur'an to attack Islam, and then when a practicing Muslim has a counter-argument, the Christian simply says the Qur'an isn't inspired anyway so it doesn't matter.

That's not a good faith discussion. That's proselytizing. And disguising proselytizing behind a good-faith conversation is disingenuous and deceitful.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[DamianWarS]

"And on the seventh day, it being the Lord's day, he said to them: Now it is time for me also to partake of food. And having washed his hands and face, he prayed, and brought out the linen cloth, and took one of the dates, and ate it in the sight of all."

I agree with a lot of your post here. However the reference from the Acts of John does not say on the seventh day of the fast it being the Lords day. There is no scripture anywhere in the bible that says Sunday or "the first of the week" is "The Lords day". The only scripture reference to "the Lords day" is Jesus being the Lord of "the Sabbath day". I agree though that the reference in the apocrypha is ambiguous and can be interpreted either way and like any apocrypha should not be relied on over scripture. If scripture is our main source of evidence then there is no scripture reference to Sunday or the first day of the week being "the Lords day". This of course being a man-made teaching and tradition that many of the early Church outside of the bible applied to Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This however is not supported in the scriptures and is not an argument in support of Sunday worship.

Take Care.

there is only once scripture reference to the Lord's day and it is not where Jesus claims authority over the Sabbath. Rev 1:10 is the only time in the bible we see that reference "The Lord's Day" and your reference to Christ claims required changing the text. My post wasn't address any of that because it's not what the OP is about. I was simply saying the text in question is not a reference to calling the Saturday Sabbath the Lord's Day and that it is simply saying on the seventh day of John's fasting/travelling, which is the context of counting the days, it fell upon the Lord's day. I did not claim however what day of the week the Lord's day is, I merely stated the text in question only claims the Lord's day cannot be used to lay claim that the Lord's day is the Saturday Sabbath. Your post seems to inventing an argument from words I didn't say.

I'm sure there are plenty who are willing to jump to an argument over this with you but I would suggest it is a digressed point and we should respect the OP with regards to the questions presented in the OP and if you have other questions unrelated to the OP perhaps you should start your own thread. The point of the OP is establishing what the apocryphal book "Acts of John" is saying when referring to the Lord's Day occurring on the seventh day of something but do not confuse this with a free license to argue about which day of the week the Lord's day actually falls on when it does not follow the requests presented in the OP.

I'm happy to engage with points as they address the OP but out of respect to the OP I will not engage in digressed points. So perhaps you want to rephrase your post so they relate to the OP not an outside agenda.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

SCRIPTURE THE FINAL WORD ON "THE LORDS DAY"

I do not believe that any of the Apocrypha including the Acts of John or any sources outside of the bible can help us to understand what "the Lords day" is if we cannot define what "the Lords day" is inside of the bible.

If we are being honest here, there is no scripture that supports the man-made teaching and tradition that Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day". We all know this is a statement of fact. So to make a claim that Revelation 1:10 is a reference to Sunday is simply a man-made teaching and tradition outside of the scriptures that is not supported in scripture. It is good to look at some of the detail here which might help the discussion because if we cannot show what "the Lords day" is within scripture how are you going to know what it is outside of the scriptures except through the eyes of those who lead us away from Gods' Word to follow man-made teachings and traditions that Jesus warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9?

REVELATION 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfilment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23..

So what day does Jesus/God claim ownership over according to the scriptures?
In Isaiah 58:13, we read of a "day" that "the Lord" specifically calls "my day" as in ownership or belonging to:

Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from THE SABBATH, from doing thy pleasure on MY HOLY DAY; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

In many translations of Isaiah 58:13 we read that the 7th day, the sabbath of the Lord, is said to be "the Lord's holy day", with the word holy being another adjective, while the "Lord's" is possessive. - /Isaiah 58:13 - Bible Gateway

There is only one that he has BLESSED and made HIS HOLY DAY OF REST and has commanded his people to REMEMBER and keep *Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11. God's "ownership" of the Sabbath day or "Lords day" is also repeated elsewhere as "MY" (ownership of the day as in the Greek used in REVELATION 1:10 κυριακη)

Exodus 31:12-18 [12] Then the Lord said to Moses, [13] Say to the Israelites, You must observe MY SABBATHS (belonging to; ownership to the Lord; or LORD'S DAY). This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

The above scriptures show the application of τη κυριακη ημερα to the Lords ownership of "the Sabbath day" as he claims "the Sabbath day" as His holy day and "My holy day" in the scriptures. What gives him authority over the Sabbath day is that he is the creation of it. So lets ask the question and let the scriptures answer it for us.

What day is "the Lords day" according to the scriptures or Jesus?

Matthew 12:8 For the son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day.

Well there you have it. According to Jesus he is the Lord of the Sabbath day. That is the Sabbath is "the Lords day from the very words of Jesus. Now who should we believe and follow; God or man? (Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29).

So as shown above a very strong case can be made from the scriptures alone that "the Lords day" meaning in the Greek the Lords ownership of the day is "the Sabbath day" but on the other hand there is not a single scripture in all the bible that supports the man-made teaching and tradition that "the Lords day" is Sunday or the first day of the week.

So bringing all this back in context to the OP. I do not think there is any use of trying to find out what "the Lords day" is if we simply do not know what it is in the scriptures. The apocrypha is not scripture so should not be put above the scriptures in my view. I probably will not say much more than this but I do not think you can separate the true meaning of "the Lords day" from the bible in any of our discussions here in my view. I have probably said all I need to say here so will not continue much more in this discussion. Thanks for the discussion everyone.

Take Care all

 

[Kilk1]

That is why your best not to look for the truth in Apocrypha as it is not scripture and is not God's Word. We are best sticking with the scriptures that are Gods' Word and there is not a single scripture in all of Gods' Word that says Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day". This is a man-made teaching and tradition by some in the early Church that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God that Jesus warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9.

Take Care.

You're correct that the Lord's Day isn't said in Scripture to be Sunday; neither is it said to be Saturday. All that's said about the Lord's Day is that John was in the spirit on the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10). However, that was the focus of the previous thread, not this thread.

By the time Revelation was written, it must have become a common term, as John doesn't have to say what day it was. From what I've seen, the universal understanding of what the term "Lord's day" meant by people that actually lived close to that time was that it was Sunday. I started this thread since someone brought up the Acts of John on the other thread, asking whether this passage might show the Lord's Day is really Saturday. We seem to agree that the answer is "No" since this reference alone doesn't prove such.

Outside the context of this apocryphal reference, we already discussed our views at length, and continuing to do so is outside the scope of this thread. However, if you'd like to discuss it again sometime, perhaps we could do a public discussion sometime, maybe even on video, so that both sides can be presented in a single setting (or two or three settings, if we wanted to have two or three nights discussing it). I'd like to have video discussions with people online, as I think it's beneficial for people with differing views to discuss it.

 

[Kilk1]

being an apocryphal book I'll start by saying the text itself has a suspicious or compromised motivation and/or authorship so we shouldn't hold on to ideas in this book too firmly. This means if it affirms the Lord's Day as the Sabbath or Sunday it doesn't hold a lot of weight alone and at best can only agree with existing ideas of when it was written (2nd century) but should not be looked at as presenting new information. The book is not about challenging when the Lord's day is and more motivated by gnostic ideas in them especially the concepts of supernatural strength given to John being able to go for days without eating and being able to drink poison. all reconcilable through the power of the Holy Spirit but this book presents it in a very gnostic way. After reading it I want the Holy Spirit not so I can spread the name of Christ but so I can have power myself.

with that natural read of the text to be suggests "the seventh day" is not regarding numerating the days of the week but a 7 day count from a starting point that is arbitrary to the days of the week. The author doesn't have to say the 7th day is the Sabbath because it's redundant and everyone already knows that. Likewise if the Lord's day was equally as known term the author shouldn't have to say that the nth day of the week is the Lord's day as everyone already knows when Lord's day is and it is sufficient to say it's the Lord's day. If the text were to say "And on the fourth day, it being the Lord's day..." there would be no dispute or confusion and we would know the referenced day is not a wednesday. Likewise if there text said the "tenth day" the meaning would be clear so why is it any different when saying the seventh? At best it's ambiguous but it cannot be used to affirm the Saturday Sabbath is the same as the Lord's Day.

In the bible when days of the week are numerated context is important. Jesus rose on the third day, but he did not raise on a tuesday simply because it says "third day". Typically the names of the days of the week are based on how far away they are from the Sabbath, and literally it's saying 1 of the Sabbath (for Sunday), 2 of the Sabbath (For Monday) 3 of the Sabbath (for Tuesday) and all the up to Friday which is called the preparation day. To his day in Greek the names of the days of the weeks are still this way with the exception of Sunday which is called "Kyriakí" which has an evolved form of "kuriakos" (the bibled use for "The Lord's Day") and Saturday too which is Sabbath.

A biblical example is Acts 20:7 which states "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread" so what day of the week is this? it is literally "first of-the sabbaton" and a sabbaton is a reference to the day of Sabbath or the week as a whole. I speak a language (not Hebrew) the name of Sunday and the name for Week are the same word. I'm familiar with this type of thinking being isolating a day or a week using the same word but sometimes it be ambiguous too. In Acts 20:7 the "of-the" is a genitive article and literally is "the" with a possessive attached to is which connects "first" with "sabbaton" so "first of the week" but you could say "first of the sabbath" this however is not saying the first Saturday, but rather the first day from sabbath to sabbath or within a week, aka Sunday.

Hebrews is the exception to this and it just says "the seventh day" but the context is clear so there is no dispute to the meaning. referencing "the seventh day" without context can be seen as de facto Sabbath but with context it needs to be interpreted by the context. One issue here is where's the original text? when it says "and on the seventh day..." what is it referencing? seventh day of what? reading the passage it seems to be the seventh day of a fast John was doing since he started travelling. He took with him a "few dates, and straightway went forth [to see the King of Rome]". during his travel he kept saying he didn't want to until until finally the seventh day which apparent was the same day as the Lord's day, he decided to break his fast with by eating a date. The context establishes the seventh day as not related to the week but related to how long John was fasting for or started his traveling. There's nothing in the text that suggests it was the Sabbath.

This is the most thorough treatment of the question I've seen (and I'm not saying that to imply other answers weren't thorough). Well done!

 

[Leaf473]

One difficulty in talking in detail about the Acts of John is that we don't have the original language to look at. I think it has been published in a book, but it's not up on the internet. It looks like none of us here have access to it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You're correct that the Lord's Day isn't said in Scripture to be Sunday; neither is it said to be Saturday. All that's said about the Lord's Day is that John was in the spirit on the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10). However, that was the focus of the previous thread, not this thread.

By the time Revelation was written, it must have become a common term, as John doesn't have to say what day it was. From what I've seen, the universal understanding of what the term "Lord's day" meant by people that actually lived close to that time was that it was Sunday. I started this thread since someone brought up the Acts of John on the other thread, asking whether this passage might show the Lord's Day is really Saturday. We seem to agree that the answer is "No" since this reference alone doesn't prove such.

Outside the context of this apocryphal reference, we already discussed our views at length, and continuing to do so is outside the scope of this thread. However, if you'd like to discuss it again sometime, perhaps we could do a public discussion sometime, maybe even on video, so that both sides can be presented in a single setting (or two or three settings, if we wanted to have two or three nights discussing it). I'd like to have video discussions with people online, as I think it's beneficial for people with differing views to discuss it.

The apostles all kept the commandments of God including the Sabbath. The Bible predicted the Sabbath would change not by God Daniel 7:25 and Paul warns what would happen after he leaves Acts 20:29 which is exactly what happened. To try to make a claim that Sunday worship was well known in scripture is false and cannot be proven and we should not add to God's Word which is not there. Proverbs 30:5-6. Sunday keeping is not a commandment of God and while we have free will to believe what we want Jesus very clearly tells us to keep the commandments of God, which is Sabbath-keeping over man's traditions, which is Sunday keeping. Matthew 15:3-9. The Sabbath is God's holy day period Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13, spoken by God, written by the finger of God and this trumps everything else. God wants us to keep holy the same day that is holy to Him Exodus 20:8 which makes sense since God is our example to follow.

I look forward to Sabbath worship continuing for eternity Isaiah 66:23 just like God promised Exodus 20:16 and the Sabbath is meant to bless and sanctify us. God bless!

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread was moved to Sabbath & the Law as it is not a Christian History topic.

​

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You're correct that the Lord's Day isn't said in Scripture to be Sunday; neither is it said to be Saturday.

Well that is not true (red). You were just shown from the scriptures in post # 728 linked, that "the Sabbath day" (not Saturday which is a diversion) is "the Lords day" as the Sabbath is the only day of the week the fulfills the meaning of τη κυριακη ημερα in Revelation 1:10 and that is the only day Jesus/God claims ownership and authority over according to the scriptures is the Sabbath day written as "My Holy day" or My Sabbaths" all through the old testament scriptures which was the bible of Jesus and the Apostles in their day. This is the same as the only day Jesus as God claims direct authority over as Lord (creator) of the Sabbath day. The only day that is referred to in the scriptures as "the Lords day" therefore is "the Sabbath day" as shown in more detail in post # 728 linked. Yet as posted earlier there is not a single scripture that supports Sunday or specifically the first day of the week as a holy day of anything let alone being "the Lords day" because it origin is not in scripture but only in man-made teachings and traditions outside of the scriptures that have led many away from God's Word to break God's 4th commandment that God claims ownership and authority over (the Lords day). We should be careful therefore to believe the Word of God over the man-made teachings and traditions of men that lead us away from God and His Word to break Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken because doing so can lead us away from God and His Word into sin. This is what Jesus is warning us about in Matthew 15:3-9 which shows that no one is worshiping God by knowingly following man-made teachings and traditions that lead us to break God's commandments. Your post here is simply ignoring the scriptures just shared with you proving that "the Lords day" according to the scriptures is "the Sabbath day." Sunday or the first day of the week on the other hand is void of any scripture to support a view that is not supported in scripture based on speculation and a view that promotes man-made teachings and tradition that breaks the commandments of God above scripture.

Take Care

 

[DamianWarS]

I do not believe that any of the Apocrypha including the Acts of John or any sources outside of the bible can help us to understand what "the Lords day" is if we cannot define what "the Lords day" is inside of the bible.

If we are being honest here, there is no scripture that supports the man-made teaching...

You started fine, then abdononed the requests of the OP and started your own agenda. The OP is not about challenging what the Lord's Day is. It is about establishing if the Acts of John reference can be responsibly used to support the day on the Saturday Sabbath. Everything else you said has nothing to do with that request so out of respect to the OP I will not engage those points.

As to the first paragraph I broadly agree with you but what the Acts of the John can help us understand is how the day was regarded when it was written (2nd century). It's has a Gnostic agenda not a Lord's Day controversial claim so I would suspect it's reference can be reliable to how it was understood when it was written but since it really doesn't give us any info it doesn't help us very much.

 

[Kilk1]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread was moved to Sabbath & the Law as it is not a Christian History topic.

​

The OP is about whether Acts of John (Apocryphal) claimed the seventh day is the Sabbath, not whether the seventh day actually is the Sabbath. Therefore, Christian History was the correct thread, at least in theory.

However, I understand your point of view. While I've tried to avoid getting into a Sabbath & the Law debate here, the vast majority of posts on this thread are doing so, thus being off-topic. While it isn't my fault, the majority of posts on this thread are debating the Sabbath, so I understand the decision.

 

[Leaf473]

The OP is about whether Acts of John (Apocryphal) claimed the seventh day is the Sabbath, not whether the seventh day actually is the Sabbath. Therefore, Christian History was the correct thread, at least in theory.

However, I understand your point of view. While I've tried to avoid getting into a Sabbath & the Law debate here, the vast majority of posts on this thread are doing so, thus being off-topic. While it isn't my fault, the majority of posts on this thread are debating the Sabbath, so I understand the decision.

I had essentially the same reaction.

 

[eleos1954]

Let's face it - clearly a clash of spirits.

I will not sit back and see folks robbed of God's rest and come under legal obligation.

What constitutes "legal obligation"?

 

[Carl Emerson]

What constitutes "legal obligation"?

When Jesus died on the Cross He had kept the Law for us.
When the temple veil was rent the curse of the Law was broken.
This removed the consequences of breaking the Law but didnt remove the Law itself.
Christians now walk in the Spirit according to the Law of the Spirit not the Law of Moses. This is a higher Law and much more demanding.
The legal obligation to Moses Law is then removed including the Sabbath.
Believers enter His Sabbath Rest by faith and obedience to His Word within.
He is still resting in His seventh day of creation and invites us today to join with Him in His rest.
This is what it means to trust in the finished work of the Cross.
The Sabbath was made for man - man needed rest.
Our rest is now in Him.
Believers gather to worship on different days - there is no longer legal bondage to a specific day.

 

[Kilk1]

I had essentially the same reaction.

There was at least enough discussion for me to get the answers I was looking for, so I'm good. The other users can use this thread however they see fit, as far as I'm concerned.