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Premillennialism ignores the tenses in the original Greek in order to sustain its teaching

Timtofly

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Answering a question with a question? You know that someone doesn't have any explanation for their beliefs when all they can do is answer a question with a question.

I assume from this non-answer that your answer to the question "Where in The Bible does it teach that resurrected beings can procreate?" is nowhere?
You have a weird way of showing your understanding of Genesis and why God created humanity. Only those in Paradise are not allowed to procreate. That is the whole of Adam's family in the Garden. They procreated on earth for the last 5991 years. Yet earth itself still needs to be filled. That is what the 1000 years is for. Do you Remember the Sabbath Day in Genesis 2? Revelation 20 is the Sabbath Day of the Lord's reign. 1 Corinthians 15:24-29
 
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sovereigngrace

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If you are a Greek mythologist.

Putting on immortality makes one a glorified son of God in the full image of God. Putting on the spirit makes us shine like the stars. Matthew 13:43 Daniel 12:3.

You are the only poster I know that renders biblical truth as "Greek mythologist." Sad! You will have to explain that some day! You do this by ducking and diving around the biblical text.

1 Corinthians 15:50-55 declares, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption [Gr. phthartos or perishable] inherit incorruption [Gr. aphthrsia or imperishable]. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed [Gr. allasso], In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible [Gr. aphthrsia or imperishable], and we shall be changed [Gr. allasso]. For this corruptible [Gr. phthartos or perishable] must put on incorruption [Gr. aphthrsia or imperishable], and this mortal [Gr. thnētos] must put on immortality [Gr. athanasia or deathlessness]. So when this corruptible [Gr. phthartos or perishable] shall have put on incorruption [Gr. aphthrsia or imperishable], and this mortal [Gr. thnētos] shall have put on immortality [Gr. athanasia or deathlessness], then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

This passage is describing the great supernatural change that occurs to God’s people when Jesus returns and takes them from a temporal fallen “flesh and blood” existence to an eternal glorified condition. Corruptibility and mortality are shown here to be interlinked. Incorruption and immortality are also shown to be enjoined. They describe the two diverse states existing in two completely different dimensions.

This Greek word allasso used to describe the glorification of the earth in Hebrews 1:10-12 is also used to describe the glorification of the elect in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52
 
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sovereigngrace

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You have a weird way of showing your understanding of Genesis and why God created humanity. Only those in Paradise are not allowed to procreate. That is the whole of Adam's family in the Garden. They procreated on earth for the last 5991 years. Yet earth itself still needs to be filled. That is what the 1000 years is for. Do you Remember the Sabbath Day in Genesis 2? Revelation 20 is the Sabbath Day of the Lord's reign. 1 Corinthians 15:24-29

Which OT saints had resurrected bodies?
 
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Timtofly

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You are the one who believes this, so explain to me how something like that could even happen.
Really?

"Gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city."

John wrote that down. You symbolize it into nonsense. I just point out what John wrote.

There have been 2 world wars and many great mass movements of troops. Yet you declare such a task nonsense and ridiculous!
 
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Timtofly

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Are you kidding me here? Lazarus has nothing to do with this since he was not resurrected unto bodily immortality. You are asking me why it is important to point out that Christ was the first to rise from the dead? Without Him rising from the dead unto bodily immortality we would not have the future hope of having immortal bodies ourselves. How can you not know the importance of Christ's resurrection? You are utterly lacking in discernment. If Lazarus had already been resurrected unto bodily immortality before Christ then that takes away the significance of Christ's resurrection! Did you just become a Christian yesterday? I'm seriously concerned about your apparent complete lack of understanding of elementary Christian beliefs that all Christians should understand.

Nonsense. The same thing is taught in verses like 1 Corinthians 15:20, Colossians 1:18 and Revelation 1:5. Christ was the first to be resurrected in the sense that He was the first to be resurrected unto bodily immortality. How can you not know this?

Lazarus was not resurrected unto bodily immortality. If he was then Paul would have mentioned him in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23, but he didn't. In that passage Paul pointed out that Christ was the first to be resurrected unto bodily immortality and next in order are those who belong to Christ when He returns.

You have no idea of what you're talking about. None. You are 100% lacking in discernment and that is troubling.
Lazarus was not glorified. That does not happen until the 5th and 6th Seal, at the Second Coming.

Lazarus was given a permanent incorruptible physical body. That is what a first resurrection is. 2 Corinthians 5:1.
 
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Timtofly

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So, they are all righteous people who love the Lord and obey Him for 1,000 years and then a number of them "as the sand of the sea" suddenly decide that they reject Him and don't want to follow Him anymore? How could their faith and loyalty be so weak even after 1,000 years? Why would Satan be able to have more influence on them in a short amount of time than Christ had on them for 1,000 years?
Adam and Eve knew God face to face, yet they rebelled. It is not without precedent. The angels chose to rebel. Of course beings are able to change their minds. You changed from premil to amil. Yet you ask why?
 
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Timtofly

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I am not sure where you see babies being birthed here. I feel you are imputing things into this reading that aren't there. Where does it say babes are born? It doesn't say they will have offspring, only that they will bring their offspring with them into the eternal state and that they will be blessed. That is just a reminder of the covenant promise that believers hold unto. I am sure you believe it is possible to bring our saved children with us to heaven?
Offspring: "a person's child or children"

They build houses to have families. Families grow up, move away, build more houses and have families. Life!
 
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Timtofly

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We have our part in the first resurrection in salvation. That is through the new birth. This is currently ongoing. Remember, we are in Him! We are one with Him! We are spiritually united to Him! His life is our life. We are hidden in Him. He is our legal head! The body is interconnected with the head. The New Testament repeatedly states that we are what we are “through Christ” “in Christ” or “by Christ.”
How does that "spiritual resurrection" literally apply to souls that have been beheaded? Are you saying they were not literally beheaded, but "beheadings" has some symbolic meaning concerning the second coming?

I do not need a lecture on soteriology. Salvation is not the point of why Amil deny the Lord's Day. The 1000 year reign of Christ on earth.
 
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Timtofly

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You are the only poster I know that renders biblical truth as "Greek mythologist." Sad! You will have to explain that some day! You do this by ducking and diving around the biblical text.

1 Corinthians 15:50-55 declares, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption [Gr. phthartos or perishable] inherit incorruption [Gr. aphthrsia or imperishable]. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed [Gr. allasso], In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible [Gr. aphthrsia or imperishable], and we shall be changed [Gr. allasso]. For this corruptible [Gr. phthartos or perishable] must put on incorruption [Gr. aphthrsia or imperishable], and this mortal [Gr. thnētos] must put on immortality [Gr. athanasia or deathlessness]. So when this corruptible [Gr. phthartos or perishable] shall have put on incorruption [Gr. aphthrsia or imperishable], and this mortal [Gr. thnētos] shall have put on immortality [Gr. athanasia or deathlessness], then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

This passage is describing the great supernatural change that occurs to God’s people when Jesus returns and takes them from a temporal fallen “flesh and blood” existence to an eternal glorified condition. Corruptibility and mortality are shown here to be interlinked. Incorruption and immortality are also shown to be enjoined. They describe the two diverse states existing in two completely different dimensions.

This Greek word allasso used to describe the glorification of the earth in Hebrews 1:10-12 is also used to describe the glorification of the elect in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52
The word "mortal" is only found 12 times in the KJV. The word "thousand" is found over 400 times. Yet you make a bigger deal over "mortal" than you do the 6 times "thousand" is found in Revelation 20.

This change and glorification is not going to happen until the Second Coming at the 6th Seal. Those in Paradise have had a permanent incorruptible physical body since the Cross.
 
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sovereigngrace

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The word "mortal" is only found 12 times in the KJV. The word "thousand" is found over 400 times. Yet you make a bigger deal over "mortal" than you do the 6 times "thousand" is found in Revelation 20.

This change and glorification is not going to happen until the Second Coming at the 6th Seal. Those in Paradise have had a permanent incorruptible physical body since the Cross.

It is actually you that has a problem with those words and with every second coming passage. You need to let the text speak for itself instead of forcing your opinion upon it.
 
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Timtofly

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It is actually you that has a problem with those words and with every second coming passage. You need to let the text speak for itself instead of forcing your opinion upon it.
I have no opinion to force on the text. That is amil whose forced opinion changes the context.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I have no opinion to force on the text. That is amil whose forced opinion changes the context.

There is no procreation - period - for the resurrected redeemed or wicked. That is an invention of yours that carries no biblical warrant, as your constant avoidance shows.

It is hard to read your posts and impossible to engage with you. The test of truth with you is not "Scripture says." If it was we could engage. But rather "Timtofly says." You present your personal opinion as fact, even though they have no foundation in Scripture, and then you want us debate it as fact. If we disagree with your invention you demand that we prove what you have invented is not true.

That's like me arguing that when Jesus comes little green men with purple hats are going to rescue us and take us to the planet Zeus where we will all have pink castles for 1000 years and drink gasoline and eat cow manure. Then when you disagree, I demand that you show me from Scripture that when Jesus comes little green men with purple hats do not rescue us and take us to the planet Zeus where we will all have pink castles for 1000 years and drink gasoline and eat cow manure. This is ridiculous. But it sums up your theology. Your mind is the source of your doctrine, not Scripture. That is why you cannot show us your beliefs in the inspired text.

1. Where in Scripture does it say that resurrected believers go to two different destinies?
2. Since when has there ever been physically resurrected human beings before Jesus defeated the grave? What has Noah's day to do with this matter under discussion when no one was resurrected then?
3. Where in the Bible does it teach that resurrected beings can procreate?
4. Are Gog and Magog the redeemed dead who are "beheaded for not taking the mark" and their offspring?
5. Where is the millennium called "the Lord's Day"?
6. Do people who reject Jesus and turn against Him sin?
7. Do people who listen to Satan and submit to his deception sin?
8. If the wicked are destroyed at the end of Satan’s little season then where do they go when they die? Do they not need to be resurrected again to be judged?
9. If these resurrected souls are destroyed at the end of Satan’s little season do they then have another resurrection in order to be judged at the GWT?
10.What type of bodies do these millennial rebels possess when they are resurrected again in order to be judged at the GWT?

I have presented multiple Scriptures that prove that the earth to come is perfect, incorrupt and glorified. I've also showed you that only the glorified saints are qualified to inherit it. The wicked and mortals are forbidden from it. You have avoided every single one of these texts. You have to! That is because they expose your doctrine.

Proverbs 2:21-22, Psalm 25:12-13, Psalm 37:9-11, Psalm 37:22, Psalm 37:28-36, Matthew 5:5, Matthew 25:34 & 46, Romans 8:16-23, 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Corinthians 15:50 show that the earth that Jesus brings is exclusively for glorified believers. You somehow populate your imaginary kingdom with millions of procreating resurrected believers who produce billions for wicked rebels who reject Jesus and follow Satan. Your millennium is a debacle.
 
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Timtofly

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There is no procreation - period - for the resurrected redeemed or wicked. That is an invention of yours that carries no biblical warrant, as your constant avoidance shows.

It is hard to read your posts and impossible to engage with you. The test of truth with you is not "Scripture says." If it was we could engage. But rather "Timtofly says." You present your personal opinion as fact, even though they have no foundation in Scripture, and then you want us debate it as fact. If we disagree with your invention you demand that we prove what you have invented is not true.

That's like me arguing that when Jesus comes little green men with purple hats are going to rescue us and take us to the planet Zeus where we will all have pink castles for 1000 years and drink gasoline and eat cow manure. Then when you disagree, I demand that you show me from Scripture that when Jesus comes little green men with purple hats do not rescue us and take us to the planet Zeus where we will all have pink castles for 1000 years and drink gasoline and eat cow manure. This is ridiculous. But it sums up your theology. Your mind is the source of your doctrine, not Scripture. That is why you cannot show us your beliefs in the inspired text.

1. Where in Scripture does it say that resurrected believers go to two different destinies?
2. Since when has there ever been physically resurrected human beings before Jesus defeated the grave? What has Noah's day to do with this matter under discussion when no one was resurrected then?
3. Where in the Bible does it teach that resurrected beings can procreate?
4. Are Gog and Magog the redeemed dead who are "beheaded for not taking the mark" and their offspring?
5. Where is the millennium called "the Lord's Day"?
6. Do people who reject Jesus and turn against Him sin?
7. Do people who listen to Satan and submit to his deception sin?
8. If the wicked are destroyed at the end of Satan’s little season then where do they go when they die? Do they not need to be resurrected again to be judged?
9. If these resurrected souls are destroyed at the end of Satan’s little season do they then have another resurrection in order to be judged at the GWT?
10.What type of bodies do these millennial rebels possess when they are resurrected again in order to be judged at the GWT?

I have presented multiple Scriptures that prove that the earth to come is perfect, incorrupt and glorified. I've also showed you that only the glorified saints are qualified to inherit it. The wicked and mortals are forbidden from it. You have avoided every single one of these texts. You have to! That is because they expose your doctrine.

Proverbs 2:21-22, Psalm 25:12-13, Psalm 37:9-11, Psalm 37:22, Psalm 37:28-36, Matthew 5:5, Matthew 25:34 & 46, Romans 8:16-23, 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Corinthians 15:50 show that the earth that Jesus brings is exclusively for glorified believers. You somehow populate your imaginary kingdom with millions of procreating resurrected believers who produce billions for wicked rebels who reject Jesus and follow Satan. Your millennium is a debacle.
You already stated the "offspring" in Isaiah is the wrong word, and Isaiah should have never claimed there would be children ever again. You stated your opinion on Isaiah. Now you are just making up nonsense to cover your change of God's Word in Isaiah 65.
 
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ShineyDays2

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Revelation 20 declares a 1000 year time frame between a resurrection before thrones (plural) that is not even a rapture, and the GWT (singular).
Some interesting point about God's Throne....
Therefore, I'm posting these really helpful verses for those who are truly honest with what God's Word has to say about His "throne in heaven" and for what it means for all of those who may be confused about the very symbolic book of Revelation. There is a lot to be gleaned from these verses.

ALL verses of the word "throne(s)" refer to the thrones in HEAVEN with the exception of 3 --- but not one verse even implies that there will be an earthly throne at ANY time as these verses comletely blow apart those absurd theories that originated from John Nelson Darby!!

Mat 5:34...But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,

Mat 19:28...Jesus said to them, "Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of man shall sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Mat 23:22...and he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

Mat 25:31..."When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.

Luk 1:32...He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,

Act 2:30...Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants upon his throne,

Act 7:49...'Heaven is my throne, and earth my footstool. What house will you build for me, says the Lord, or what is the place of my rest?

Interestingly, the word "footstool" was described in Strong's as...1. metaph. taken from the practice of conquerors who placed their feet on the necks of their conquered enemies

Act 12:21...On an appointed day Herod put on his royal robes, took his seat upon the throne, and made an oration to them. (Exception: Not in reference to Jesus at all on this one.)

Heb 1:8...But of the Son he says, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom.

Heb 4:16...Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Heb 8:1...Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,

Heb 12:2...looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

Rev 1:4...John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne,

Rev 2:13..."'I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is; you hold fast my name and you did not deny my faith even in the days of An'tipas my witness, my faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. (Exception: certainly not in heaven for this one. Satan's throne is on earth -- for now.)

Rev 3:21...He who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I myself conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Rev 4:2...At once I was in the Spirit, and lo, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne!

Rev 4:3...And he who sat there appeared like jasper and carnelian, and round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald.

Rev 4:4...Round the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clad in white garments, with golden crowns upon their heads.

Rev 4:5...From the throne issue flashes of lightning, and voices and peals of thunder, and before the throne burn seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God;

Rev 4:6...and before the throne there is as it were a sea of glass, like crystal. And round the throne, on each side of the throne, are four living creatures, full of eyes in front and behind:

Rev 4:9...And whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to him who is seated on the throne, who lives for ever and ever,

Rev 4:10...the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever; they cast their crowns before the throne, singing,

Rev 5:1...And I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals;

Rev 5:6...And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth;

Rev 5:7...and he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne.

Rev 5:11...Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands,

Rev 5:13...And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, "To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!"

Rev 6:16...calling to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;

Rev 7:9...After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Rev 7:10...and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!"

Rev 7:11...And all the angels stood round the throne and round the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,

Rev 7:15...Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night within his temple; and he who sits upon the throne will shelter them with his presence.

Rev 7:17...For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of living water; and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

Rev 8:3...And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne;

Rev 12:5...she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,

Rev 13:2...And the beast that I saw was like a leopard, its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. (Exception: The devil lost his throne in heaven; through the power of the world he temporarily regains a throne as the "prince of this world for this time period.)

Rev 14:3...and they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been redeemed from the earth.

Rev 16:10...The fifth angel poured his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was in darkness; men gnawed their tongues in anguish (Exception: the beasts' throne is on earth; not heaven)

Rev 16:17...The seventh angel poured his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple, from the throne, saying, "It is done!"

Rev 19:4...And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who is seated on the throne, saying, "Amen. Hallelujah!"

Rev 19:5...And from the throne came a voice crying, "Praise our God, all you his servants, you who fear him, small and great."

Rev 20:11...Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.

Rev 20:12...And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.

Rev 21:3..and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them;

Rev 21:5...And he who sat upon the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." Also he said, "Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true."

Rev 22:1...Then he showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb

Rev 22:3...There shall no more be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and his servants shall worship him;

When all these verses are read, it becomes very clear that there will be NO New manmade Temple that Christ will return to earth for or to sit on any throne, anywhere, or anytime no matter who builds it!

The only "temple" now and until the end of the world is in heaven and God has no intention, according to his closed book, to then turn around and leave his temple in heaven for a man-made doctrine that originated in the mind of Charles Nelson Darby.

Those who understand the above verses do not follow Darby's false doctrine. Those who understand and dismiss them may be in denial but still reflect adhereance to his erroneous theory even if they are unaware of it.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Really?

"Gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city."

John wrote that down. You symbolize it into nonsense. I just point out what John wrote.

There have been 2 world wars and many great mass movements of troops. Yet you declare such a task nonsense and ridiculous!
Was that a number of troops "as the sand of the sea"? Hardly. It's hilarious to me that you would think it's nonsense for someone to interpret a verse in the most symbolic book in all of scripture in a symbolic way. Okay, whatever you say! Too funny.
 
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Adam and Eve knew God face to face, yet they rebelled.
Did they know God For 1,000 years before they sinned? Come on, Tim. Pay attention to what you're reading when you read my posts. Comparing Adam and Eve to people who have been with Christ on earth for 1,000 years is ridiculous.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Lazarus was not glorified. That does not happen until the 5th and 6th Seal, at the Second Coming.

Lazarus was given a permanent incorruptible physical body. That is what a first resurrection is. 2 Corinthians 5:1.
That is such nonsense. No one is given an incorruptible body until the last trumpet (1 Cor 15:50-54). Has the last trumpet sounded yet? No. So, you are completely wrong about Lazarus. It's just mind blowing how nonsensical your beliefs are. Truly unbelievable. Were you taught any of the things you believe or do they all come from your own imagination?
 
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Timtofly

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Did they know God For 1,000 years before they sinned? Come on, Tim. Pay attention to what you're reading when you read my posts. Comparing Adam and Eve to people who have been with Christ on earth for 1,000 years is ridiculous.
What makes time any different? Now who is being temporal minded?

Those born in the last 100 years did not spend 1000 years with Christ either.
 
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Timtofly

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That is such nonsense. No one is given an incorruptible body until the last trumpet (1 Cor 15:50-54). Has the last trumpet sounded yet? No. So, you are completely wrong about Lazarus. It's just mind blowing how nonsensical your beliefs are. Truly unbelievable. Were you taught any of the things you believe or do they all come from your own imagination?
They come from Scripture. You can continue to wait patiently for the Resurrection and the Life. I accept Jesus as always being the Resurrection and the Life.
 
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