Should we call the Holy Spirit "He' instead of "it"?

[GodLovesCats]

"Holy Ghost" was the term that was used by Christians until only recently. The reason for the change was what you are referring to--people thinking of Ghost as meaning something spooky.

The downside of the change, however, is evident in many of the discussions we get into here on CF. When the term "Holy Spirit" is used, many people think of it not as a person of the Blessed Trinity but as a formless non-person, something moving on the wind, the force of God but not God himself, etc.

This has led many people to think of the Trinity in ways that were condemned as heresies way back in the early days of Christianity.

The Bible uses the word Spirit, not Ghost. Why should people call Him what God does not?

 

[Albion]

The Bible uses the word Spirit, not Ghost. Why should people call Him what God does not?

That may be true of the Bible translation you use, but the term Holy Ghost is used 563 times in the King James Version of the Bible.

 

[GodLovesCats]

That may be true of the Bible translation you use, but the term Holy Ghost is used 563 times in the King James Version of the Bible.

The same Bible I criticized for calling small land animals "creeping things" in Genesis 1. That explains it.

 

[Albion]

No, that doesn't "explain it."

It may explain your own preference in Bible translations, but it doesn't show us that you were correct in your first statement.

The term Holy Ghost was used in the Bible for centuries before the version you prefer came along and changed it, so it is inaccurate to say that "The Bible uses the word Spirit, not Ghost. Why should people call Him what God does not?"

 

[GreekOrthodox]

The word "ghost" is only associated with Halloween (the anti-saints holiday) in all other respects. I do not like people making God seem creepy and scary.

The 17th century English translators used Ghost from the German "Geist" as in the Nicene Creed

Wir glauben an den Heiligen Geist,
We believe in the Holy Ghost

And All Hallow's Eve is the vigil of the night before All Saints day.

 

[apollosdtr]

Face it: Everyone pretends the Holy Spirit is a thing, calling the Third Person of the Trinity "it" - even in churches. Although the Bible does not refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" anywhere, a born person is never called "it" like other animal species, even if the sex is unknown. The Holy Spirit is a PERSON of God.

On the other hand, the Bible says "the Holy Spirit" everywhere. Yes, people say "the baby" and "that kid," etc. But putting "the" in front of "Holy Spirit" implies there is no life in "it."

What do you think?

Some say that the Holy Spirit is female.
The Essene writings show the presence of a female God, too.
If you look at the Pelasgian beliefs, you see Gaea... Mother Earth.
And even in the creation verses of the OT, we have our Mother Earth.

 

[Clare73]

Face it: Everyone pretends the Holy Spirit is a thing, calling the Third Person of the Trinity "it" - even in churches. Although the Bible does not refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" anywhere,

For starters, there's "him" and "he" in:
John 16:7, 8, 13, 14, etc.

a born person is never called "it" like other animal species, even if the sex is unknown. The Holy Spirit is a PERSON of God.

On the other hand, the Bible says "the Holy Spirit" everywhere. Yes, people say "the baby" and "that kid," etc. But putting "the" in front of "Holy Spirit" implies there is no life in "it."

What do you think?

 

[DamianWarS]

No it hasn’t. Grammarians largely managed to stop it in the 18th century, but it has a history. A brief history of singular ‘they’ | Oxford English Dictionary

I use "they" singular all the time without even thinking about it. Usually when addressing a position over an individual or when gender is unknown. The thing with "they" is you don't use third person pronouns about someone when you're speaking with them so I don't find offence happens too often. In the customer service business it's common for a person to avoid gendering, they may not use "they" but they don't identify someone by a gender to avoid confusion.

*In the above I used the pronouns "them", and "they" in the singular and I did it without even thinking about it. It's already a natural thing to do.

 

[apollosdtr]

For starters, there's "him" and "he" in:
John 16:7, 8, 13, 14, etc.

That's a translator's choice... not written in stone.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Strong's: ho including the feminine = he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom):--the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.

Strong's Greek: 3588. ὁ, (ho, hé, to) -- the

The sintax of the Greek is different from the English... and this matters greatly, as well. In fact, there must not have been any women translators... Patriarchy having taken over the entire Mediterranean basin, which was previously Matriarchal... we can clearly see the Pelasgians and Ligurians as Matriarchal societies, in the foundation myths of Homer's Helen and in that of Marsailles.
(See also Ridgeway, Early Age of Greece, 2 Vols.)

 

[GodLovesCats]

I use "they" singular all the time without even thinking about it. Usually when addressing a position over an individual or when gender is unknown. The thing with "they" is you don't use third person pronouns about someone when you're speaking with them so I don't find offence happens too often. In the customer service business it's common for a person to avoid gendering, they may not use "they" but they don't identify someone by a gender to avoid confusion.

*In the above I used the pronouns "them", and "they" in the singular and I did it without even thinking about it. It's already a natural thing to do.

The words they, their, and them have always been plural. The only reason people began using those three words in singular is nobody bothered to make up new words, which is what should have been done.

 

[hedrick]

The words they, their, and them have always been plural. The only reason people began using those three words in singular is nobody bothered to make up new words, which is what should have been done.

You would prefer zhe? One suggestion I just saw was ’e. Not sure how you’d pronounce it. I’m pretty sure “they” is going to win. Besides, OED says they was used in the singular before grammarians stopped it.

 

[GodLovesCats]

You would prefer zhe? One suggestion I just saw was ’e. Not sure how you’d pronounce it. I’m pretty sure “they” is going to win. Besides, OED says they was used in the singular before grammarians stopped it.

I prefer just having our own separate words for they, their, and them that are never used in the plural.

 

[DamianWarS]

The words they, their, and them have always been plural. The only reason people began using those three words in singular is nobody bothered to make up new words, which is what should have been done.

that's what "it" is for, we just don't like using it for people (except for some rare examples, ie "who is it?" or "it's a boy!") but to claim one doesn't exist would be incorrect.

 

[DamianWarS]

You would prefer zhe? One suggestion I just saw was ’e. Not sure how you’d pronounce it. I’m pretty sure “they” is going to win. Besides, OED says they was used in the singular before grammarians stopped it.

zie, ze, sie, ey, ve, tey, e, per, xe are all suggestions. I think what's going to happen is he/she will fade from practice and it will be replaced with "they" and all the rest will be forgotten.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Face it: Everyone pretends the Holy Spirit is a thing, calling the Third Person of the Trinity "it" - even in churches. Although the Bible does not refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" anywhere, a born person is never called "it" like other animal species, even if the sex is unknown. The Holy Spirit is a PERSON of God.

On the other hand, the Bible says "the Holy Spirit" everywhere. Yes, people say "the baby" and "that kid," etc. But putting "the" in front of "Holy Spirit" implies there is no life in "it."

What do you think?

He's the Holy Spirit. And I consistently encounter the use of the personal pronoun "He" rather than "it"; indeed it's quite common for when someone to say "it" in reference to the Spirit that someone will most likely offer correction.

The Holy Spirit isn't an "it", He is a Person. He is the Lord and Life-Giver, who is to be worshiped and glorified even as the Father and Son are worshiped and glorified: As true God. He is Himself truly and really God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[DamianWarS]

He's the Holy Spirit. And I consistently encounter the use of the personal pronoun "He" rather than "it"; indeed it's quite common for when someone to say "it" in reference to the Spirit that someone will most likely offer correction.

The Holy Spirit isn't an "it", He is a Person. He is the Lord and Life-Giver, who is to be worshiped and glorified even as the Father and Son are worshiped and glorified: As true God. He is Himself truly and really God.

-CryptoLutheran

To me the pronoun "He" is different than the pronoun "he". That capitalisation tells me it's God and not a biological discrimination.

 

[Kettriken]

Face it: Everyone pretends the Holy Spirit is a thing, calling the Third Person of the Trinity "it" - even in churches. Although the Bible does not refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" anywhere, a born person is never called "it" like other animal species, even if the sex is unknown. The Holy Spirit is a PERSON of God.

On the other hand, the Bible says "the Holy Spirit" everywhere. Yes, people say "the baby" and "that kid," etc. But putting "the" in front of "Holy Spirit" implies there is no life in "it."

What do you think?

The Holy Spirit is a portion of God. A person of God, as you name it. This Spirit is the portion that dwells within us, guiding us. Referring to them as "It" could certainly be off putting to some but certainly no more than referring to a spirit, lacking in body and therefore gender, as "He" is off putting.

The God-head can be viewed as entirely male in the view that the church’s members view themselves individually as the female counterpart.

If only the body of Christ, manifest as the Church, were willing to consider themselves in someway entirely female. Then we could have this conversation in earnest. Alas. Male is always seen as literal and female as always metaphorical.

 

[GodLovesCats]

If only the body of Christ, manifest as the Church, were willing to consider themselves in some way entirely female. Then we could have this conversation in earnest. Alas. Male is always seen as literal and female as always metaphorical.

Two things about using male pronouns:

1. During Biblical times and for centuries after, those words were used for talking about animals or people whose sex was unknown to the speaker. This is also why the Bible calls other people our brothers.

2. Jesus is a man. He was the first-born son of Mary. He is God, the Son of the Father. So we know God is male. It only makes sense to believe because the Holy Spirit is also God, only male pronouns make sense for the Third Person of the Trinity.

 

[Strong in Him]

Face it: Everyone pretends the Holy Spirit is a thing, calling the Third Person of the Trinity "it"

Who is "everyone"?
Not me; never have done.

Although the Bible does not refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" anywhere,

John 14:17 - the world cannot accept him; the world neither sees nor knows him. But you know him.
John 15:26 - he will testify about me.
John 16:7 - if I go, I will send him to you.
John 16:8 - when he comes, he will ........
John 16:13 - when he, the Spirit of truth, comes
John 16:14 - he will glorify me.

On the other hand, the Bible says "the Holy Spirit" everywhere. Yes, people say "the baby" and "that kid," etc. But putting "the" in front of "Holy Spirit" implies there is no life in "it."

Peter said that Ananias had lied to the Holy Spirit - Acts of the Apostles 5:3
James wrote to the Gentiles saying "it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us ..... Acts of the Apostles 15:28
Paul told us not to quench or grieve the Spirit.
Yes, in most of these places they say "the Holy Spirit"; but lying to, quenching and grieving implies a person. Paul also says that the Spirit gives gifts as HE determines, 1 Corinthians 12:11, and in Romans 8 talks about the Spirit himself.

I think he is personal. Among other things, he intercedes to God for us, Romans 8:26.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

The Bible uses the word Spirit, not Ghost. Why should people call Him what God does not?

That would depend entirly on the translation that you are using. KJV = Holy Ghost; Luther Biebel =
Heiliger Geist... Maybe some of our Bible Scholars could tell us what it is in Aramaic? Jerome's Vulgate says "Spiritus Sanctus"; so two to one for Holy Ghost; with our Latin friends coming in with the Holy Spirit.