Should we call the Holy Spirit "He' instead of "it"?

[GodLovesCats]

Face it: Everyone pretends the Holy Spirit is a thing, calling the Third Person of the Trinity "it" - even in churches. Although the Bible does not refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" anywhere, a born person is never called "it" like other animal species, even if the sex is unknown. The Holy Spirit is a PERSON of God.

On the other hand, the Bible says "the Holy Spirit" everywhere. Yes, people say "the baby" and "that kid," etc. But putting "the" in front of "Holy Spirit" implies there is no life in "it."

What do you think?

 

[topher694]

Face it: Everyone pretends the Holy Spirit is a thing, calling the Third Person of the Trinity "it" - even in churches. Although the Bible does not refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" anywhere, a born person is never called "it" like other animal species, even if the sex is unknown. The Holy Spirit is a PERSON of God.

On the other hand, the Bible says "the Holy Spirit" everywhere. Yes, people say "the baby" and "that kid," etc. But putting "the" in front of "Holy Spirit" implies there is no life in "it."

What do you think?

I think you are far off the mark when you say, "Everyone pretends the Holy Spirit is a thing". It's a fairly common teaching to treat - and speak to - the Holy Spirit as person, same as you would the Father or Jesus.

 

[Albion]

Face it: Everyone pretends the Holy Spirit is a thing, calling the Third Person of the Trinity "it" - even in churches.

I'm surprised to hear this. In every church that I've belonged to, the HS has been referred to as "He" or "Him." And I assume that's because this is how he is referred to in the New Testament. See John 14:26, for instance.

 

[St_Worm2]

...the Bible does not refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" anywhere...

Hello ChristianForCats, actually, the Lord Jesus (and others too) refers to the Holy Spirit as "He".

For instance,

John 14
26 “The Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."
​

God bless you!

--David

edit: My post uses the same verse that @Albion just used in his post above. Sorry about that Albion and ChristianForCats, I should have read through the thread before making my post

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Although the Bible does not refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" anywhere,

Where are you getting that from? The Holy Spirit is called "He" in this passage and others:

John 16:12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.

 

[PloverWing]

I'm all for gender-neutral ways to refer to God, but "it" is problematic because it sounds impersonal. As topher694 and Albion said, in the churches I'm familiar with, the Holy Spirit is normally referred to in personal ways. The translations of the Nicene Creed I've seen say either "We believe in the Holy Spirit.... With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified..." or "...who with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified". That is, either "he" or "who", both personal pronouns.

"The" doesn't have to mean impersonal. "The king", "the countess", "the president", "the mayor", etc., are all references to people.

 

[DamianWarS]

Face it: Everyone pretends the Holy Spirit is a thing, calling the Third Person of the Trinity "it" - even in churches. Although the Bible does not refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" anywhere, a born person is never called "it" like other animal species, even if the sex is unknown. The Holy Spirit is a PERSON of God.

On the other hand, the Bible says "the Holy Spirit" everywhere. Yes, people say "the baby" and "that kid," etc. But putting "the" in front of "Holy Spirit" implies there is no life in "it."

What do you think?

I speak a language where he/she/it are all the same pronoun but it would be awkward to use it for a non-person.

It makes these conversations a lot easier.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I speak a language where he/she/it are all the same pronoun but it would be awkward to use it for a non-person.

It makes these conversations a lot easier.

Which language is that?

One of my biggest complaints about English is we have no sex-neutral words for he/she and him/her. The Holy Spirit is obviously male, so I don't have to worry about messing up with him/it, but for real people, I wish all languages had such a word.

 

[DamianWarS]

Which language is that?

One of my biggest complaints about English is we have no sex-neutral words for he/she and him/her. The Holy Spirit is obviously male, so I don't have to worry about messing up with him/it, but for real people, I wish all languages had such a word.

Malay. The word is "ia" or "dia" but they mean the same thing which is a third person singular gender-nutral pronoun. This is the same with words like daughter or son, there is no word to distinguish gender and it's just child.

I think English is going to lean this way too as gender neutral pronouns become more of a demand. It will start in social media where people will take offence to gender pronouns and get picked up in informal and formal writting and to news broadcasts for fear of offending. ect.. until everyone drops he/she.

There was a similar problem with "thou" which is the second person singular in English where using it became out of fashion and the plural "ye" or "you" wasn't as direct and considered more respectful. It was used when addressing a stranger and became popular amoung the more affluent, then everyone just starting using it.

I predict he/she will be replaced in a similar way with "they" and using he/she will start to feel very awkward and too formal.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I predict he/she will be replaced in a similar way with "they" and using he/she will start to feel very awkward and too formal.

This is what I do NOT want to see and hear. "They" has always been and will always be a plural word that does not discriminate between living things and inanimate objects. English needs a new word.

 

[The Liturgist]

Face it: Everyone pretends the Holy Spirit is a thing, calling the Third Person of the Trinity "it" - even in churches. Although the Bible does not refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" anywhere, a born person is never called "it" like other animal species, even if the sex is unknown. The Holy Spirit is a PERSON of God.

On the other hand, the Bible says "the Holy Spirit" everywhere. Yes, people say "the baby" and "that kid," etc. But putting "the" in front of "Holy Spirit" implies there is no life in "it."

What do you think?

The Nicene Creed declares the Holy Spirit the Lord, the giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father, who spoke by the prophets, and who together with the prophets is worshipped and glorified.

This is not an optional part of Christianity. The personhood of the Spirit is an essential Nicene doctrine all Christian churches, by definition, agree on, and to deny the Spirit is the ancient heresy of Macedonianism, also known as Pneumatomacchianism, which translated from Greek means “doctrine of fighting the Spirit.”

I prefer we call Him the Holy Ghost, as this implies more personality and spares a syllable, and some members may be greatly surprised to learn that I ,for one, greatly value brevity. Perhaps not as much as @MarkRohfrietsch and @Paidiske for instance, who my penchant for writing long, meandering letters to while drinking Trappist ale is no doubt less endearing than my friends from the Commonwealth of Nations might otherwise prefer, but I do value brevity, at least when other people do the talking.

Even the Jews in Kabbalah personalized the Spirit to some extent.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

The Nicene Creed declares the Holy Spirit the Lord, the giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father, who spoke by the prophets, and who together with the prophets is worshipped and glorified.

This is not an optional part of Christianity. The personhood of the Spirit is an essential Nicene doctrine all Christian churches, by definition, agree on, and to deny the Spirit is the ancient heresy of Macedonianism, also known as Pneumatomacchianism, which translated from Greek means “doctrine of fighting the Spirit.”

I prefer we call Him the Holy Ghost, as this implies more personality and spares a syllable, and some members may be greatly surprised to learn that I ,for one, greatly value brevity. Perhaps not as much as @MarkRohfrietsch and @Paidiske for instance, who my penchant for writing long, meandering letters to while drinking Trappist ale is no doubt less endearing than my friends from the Commonwealth of Nations might otherwise prefer, but I do value brevity, at least when other people do the talking.

Even the Jews in Kabbalah personalized the Spirit to some extent.

While not exactly "brief", regarding the Holy Spirit's personage in the Trinity; the Athanasian Creed gives it an in depth treatment in the first article:

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

 

[DamianWarS]

This is what I do NOT want to see and hear. "They" has always been and will always be a plural word that does not discriminate between living things and inanimate objects. English needs a new word.

"You" is second person plural "thou" second person singular but nobody uses "thou". So it's happened before and it can happen again.

 

[hedrick]

This is what I do NOT want to see and hear. "They" has always been and will always be a plural word that does not discriminate between living things and inanimate objects. English needs a new word.

No it hasn’t. Grammarians largely managed to stop it in the 18th century, but it has a history. A brief history of singular ‘they’ | Oxford English Dictionary

 

[The Liturgist]

No it hasn’t. Grammarians largely managed to stop it in the 18th century, but it has a history. A brief history of singular ‘they’ | Oxford English Dictionary

Good for the grammarians.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

The Spirit is not an "it" which I feel "depersonifies" the third member of the Trinity. This Akathist proclaims

AKATHISTOS HYMN TO THE HOLY AND LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT

O Heavenly King, O Paraclete, the Spirit of Truth, Who art everywhere present and fillest all things, the Treasury of blessings and Giver of Life, come and dwell in us, and purify us from every stain, and of Thy Goodness, save our souls.

Kontakion 1
Come ye faithful to celebrate the descent of the Holy Spirit. From the bosom of the Father He has been poured out upon the Apostles, He has covered all the earth with the knowledge of God, He has rendered worthy of the vivifying grace of adoption and of the heavenly glory, those who hasten to Him with a pure heart for He hallows and renders divine those who cry out:
Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, come and dwell in us!

Stanza 1
The bright choirs of the Apostles unceasingly sing in heaven the glory of the Holy Spirit, source of life and of immaterial glory. We also glorify Thee with them, Spirit of goodness, for all thy favours manifest and hidden, and humbly we beseech Thee to cover us with Thy blessed shadow:

Come, true light and joy of the soul.
Come, cloud bringing dew and inexpressible beauty.
Come to accept our praise as fragrant incense.
Come, spirit of truth, which the world cannot receive.
Come to make us taste the happiness of Thine outpouring.
Come to gladden us with the abundance of Thy gifts.
Come eternal sun and without setting to establish Thine abode in us.
Holy Spirit Paraclete, come and dwell in us.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The God-head can be viewed as entirely male in the view that the church’s members view themselves individually as the female counterpart. Soul and spirit divided, a living soul as seeing the Holy Spirit, a function thru the human organ of the human spirit, awakened by the Spirit of God, to receive from Wisdom that which divides the carnal from the spiritual. The soul is an organ to receive as the Holy Spirit that which sends forth that to be received. Christ contains/was made Wisdom for us, as the all-sufficient One, the Promise that is to be received. So within Christ is both contained, male and female. But when viewed by the church He is the Last Adam while the church is (in view of that) the mother of all living, parable speaking, the New Jerusalem, our mother.

So there’s many parables there to get to the plain speaking.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Face it: Everyone pretends the Holy Spirit is a thing, calling the Third Person of the Trinity "it" - even in churches. Although the Bible does not refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" anywhere, a born person is never called "it" like other animal species, even if the sex is unknown. The Holy Spirit is a PERSON of God.

On the other hand, the Bible says "the Holy Spirit" everywhere. Yes, people say "the baby" and "that kid," etc. But putting "the" in front of "Holy Spirit" implies there is no life in "it."

What do you think?

I've not heard the Holy Spirit called "it" very often at all. The Holy Spirit is definitely "He". He is a Person. That's why He can be grieved.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I prefer we call Him the Holy Ghost, as this implies more personality and spares a syllable.

The word "ghost" is only associated with Halloween (the anti-saints holiday) in all other respects. I do not like people making God seem creepy and scary.

 

[Albion]

The word "ghost" is only associated with Halloween (the anti-saints holiday) in all other respects. I do not like people making God seem creepy and scary.

"Holy Ghost" was the term that was used by Christians until only recently. The reason for the change was what you are referring to--people thinking of Ghost as meaning something spooky.

The downside of the change, however, is evident in many of the discussions we get into here on CF. When the term "Holy Spirit" is used, many people think of it not as a person of the Blessed Trinity but as a formless non-person, something moving on the wind, the force of God but not God himself, etc.

This has led many people to think of the Trinity in ways that were condemned as heresies way back in the early days of Christianity.