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Did Yahshua Rise on the 7th Day Shabbat...

Humble Penny

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Is it your understanding that they were keeping the solar calendar? Because I cannot find any evidence they were.



Moses explicity says Feast of Weeks = First Fruits.

No Humble Penny. First Fruits is the name given to the day of the wave sheaf offering of barley. On the first Sunday after Passover. This is the day called First Fruits. That is it's name.

The Feast of Weeks is 50 days later. On this day, a wave sheaf offering of wheat is presented. This is the first fruits of the wheat, just as there can be a first fruits of grapes, or any crop.

But the day specifically called Yom HaBikkurim (Day of First Fruits) is the first Sunday after Passover.

I showed you in Leviticus 23. This is important to understand Joshua 5.

As for what Jubilees says, I don't agree with it as being Holy Scripture. You may as well be quoting the book of Mormon.

Look at Leviticus 23:9-14
In post #104 I addressed why Moses speaks of a solar calendar.

In post #111 I have already addressed that YHWH treats the rest days/holy convocations on each of the feast days as sabbaths.

And as regards your First Fruits not being the same as Feast of Weeks argument you have not answered why Moses regards them as the same in Exodus 34:22.

But for some odd reason you keep ducking and running when confronted by these points and pretend you can't read them.
 
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HARK!

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Is it your understanding that they were keeping the solar calendar? Because I cannot find any evidence they were.

The evidence supports that they accepted the Book of Enoch and the Book of Jubilees as scripture. I have not determined which calendar, or calendars, they were, or were not, keeping.

Yahshua mentioned the lying pens of scribes; and we have clear evidence that the Masoretes omitted Cainan from the table of nations, and blotted our Father's name out of scripture. I'm remaining objective in my studies on this subject.
 
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HARK!

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@HARK! This thread is getting a bit out of hand and off topic. I propose that if anyone decides to claim whatever calendar they believe is the biblical one, then they must prove from Genesis 1:1-2:3 what calendar is being discussed and which of the luminaries God made leader of the year. And once they have made their points they need to show how their theories "views" add up to the 3 Days and 3 Nights required by Yeshua to rise from the dead.

This is not off topic at all. In order to understand the timing of the Pesach events concerning Yahshua; we must use a calendar, or maybe even multiple calendars.

Considering that we have evidence that the MT has altered Genesis; and that Yahshua and his disciples accepted Enoch and Jubilees as scripture; I believe that it would lack due diligence to limit our research to a single manuscript.


Genesis 10:22-24 King James Version (KJV)
22 The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.

23 And the children of Aram; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash.

24 And Arphaxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber.


Luke 3:35-36 King James Version (KJV)
35 Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala,

36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,

Brenton's Septuagint (LXX)
Genesis 10:22 Commentaries & Bibles"> Sons of Shem{gr.Sem}, Elam, and Asshur{gr.Assur}, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Syria{gr.Aram}, and Cainan.

Genesis 10:23 Commentaries & Bibles"> And sons of Syria{gr.Aram}, Uz, and Ul, and Gater, and Mosoch.
Genesis 10:24 Commentaries & Bibles"> And Arphaxad begot Cainan, and Cainan begot Sala. And Sala begot Eber{gr.Heber}.


Jubilees Chapter 8

1

In the twenty-ninth jubilee, in the first week, [1373 A.M.] in the beginning thereof Arpachshad took to himself a wife and her name was Rasu'eja, the daughter of Susan, the daughter of Elam, and she

2

bare him a son in the third year in this week, [1375 A.M.] and he called his name Kainam. And the son grew, and his father taught him writing, and he went to seek for himself a place where he might seize for
 
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Humble Penny

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The evidence supports that they accepted the Book of Enoch and the Book of Jubilees as scripture. I have not determined which calendar, or calendars, they were, or were not, keeping.

Yahshua mentioned the lying pens of scribes; and we have clear evidence that the Masoretes omitted Cainan from the table of nations, and blotted our Father's name out of scripture. I'm remaining objective in my studies on this subject.
If looking at Scripture isn't enough then I don't know what is...when we look at the Dead Sea Scrolls this is how the Qumran community laid out the calendar:
Screenshot_20220104-120823_Adobe Acrobat.jpg
Screenshot_20220104-120909_Adobe Acrobat.jpg
Screenshot_20220104-120854_Adobe Acrobat.jpg


Now if we're going to be objective and impartial, and properly apply the scientific method then we must take this information in the DSS and test against Scripture since it is clear that they used the names of the 24 Priests chosen by lot by king David in 2 Chronicles. And as to why they would start the year in the middle of the week on a Wednesday, well the only logical answer to that is if they deduced from Genesis 1:14-19 that the calendar year begins on the 4th Day of the Week. This I have thoroughly covered in post #104.

I use the term Qumran Community very carefully becuase we really don't know who the group was in the Judean desert beyond mere speculation. Therefore my views are clear that the Bible supports a 364-Day Solar calendar and my proof to back it up is the Dead Sea Scrolls.

I'd like to hear all opponents show why the Qumran community has their plain reading of Genesis 1:1-2:3 wrong.

In addition I have also uploaded six files showing my independent work on the study of the calendar of the DSS as we have them. I will also include the English Translation. The page to turn to in the.pdf file of the DSS is p. 401 for the calendar.
 

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Humble Penny

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This is not off topic at all. In order to understand the timing of the Pesach events concerning Yahshua; we must use a calendar.

Considering that we have evidence that the MT has altered Genesis; and that Yahshua and his disciples accepted Enoch and Jubilees as scripture; I believe that it would lack due diligence to limit our research to a single manuscript.


Genesis 10:22-24 King James Version (KJV)
22 The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.

23 And the children of Aram; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash.

24 And Arphaxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber.


Luke 3:35-36 King James Version (KJV)
35 Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala,

36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,

Brenton's Septuagint (LXX)
Genesis 10:22 Commentaries & Bibles"> Sons of Shem{gr.Sem}, Elam, and Asshur{gr.Assur}, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Syria{gr.Aram}, and Cainan.

Genesis 10:23 Commentaries & Bibles"> And sons of Syria{gr.Aram}, Uz, and Ul, and Gater, and Mosoch.
Genesis 10:24 Commentaries & Bibles"> And Arphaxad begot Cainan, and Cainan begot Sala. And Sala begot Eber{gr.Heber}.


Jubilees Chapter 8

1

In the twenty-ninth jubilee, in the first week, [1373 A.M.] in the beginning thereof Arpachshad took to himself a wife and her name was Rasu'eja, the daughter of Susan, the daughter of Elam, and she

2

bare him a son in the third year in this week, [1375 A.M.] and he called his name Kainam. And the son grew, and his father taught him writing, and he went to seek for himself a place where he might seize for
Well you don't have to convince me of the Scriptures being altered as I have shown that in the work I have presented regarding biblical chronology. I agree that this relies on knowing which calendar is spoken of by Scriptutre.

What I am saying is off topic is the jumping around to passages which have nothing to do with the calendar. I guess more what I was communicating, or trying to, is in post #124.
 
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Humble Penny

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This is not off topic at all. In order to understand the timing of the Pesach events concerning Yahshua; we must use a calendar, or maybe even multiple calendars.
I think what would be helpful for our discussion is if the other participants layout the calendar year according to whatever doctrine they're following in a neat and orderly manner as I have done in post #104. At that point we can see compare and contrast each veiw and weigh it against Scripture to see which view is correct.
 
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visionary

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The gospels all attest that Jesus rose from the dead early on the first day of the week. So while the scriptures talk about when they found out.....

Matthew 28:1: "After the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning…"

Mark 16:1-2: "When the Sabbath was over… very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen…"

Luke 24:1: "On the first day of the week at early dawn…"

John 20:1: "Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark."

The first day of the week is Sunday. In that culture, as throughout the Bible, the day begins with sunset and it could easily be that Yeshua rose Saturday night after sunset but was not found until the early morning of Sunday.
 
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HARK!

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I think what would be helpful for our discussion is if the other participants layout the calendar year according to whatever doctrine they're following in a neat and orderly manner as I have done in post #104. At that point we can see compare and contrast each veiw and weigh it against Scripture to see which view is correct.

I had considered that approach many years ago; but as some might have been speaking of a different calendar than others; I'm not sure exactly how to present a proof that harmonizes all of scripture.

If I had that part figured out; I would not have created this study. I would have presented a logical argument with my conclusion.

We know that Yahshua could not have taken part in a Pesach seder on the first day of Hag Matzot, on the night of the 15th, then later be executed on Pesach, the day of the 14th.

You are very adept with calendar calculations. That is one reason why I was very excited when you joined us.
 
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Humble Penny

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The gospels all attest that Jesus rose from the dead early on the first day of the week. So while the scriptures talk about when they found out.....

Matthew 28:1: "After the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning…"

Mark 16:1-2: "When the Sabbath was over… very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen…"

Luke 24:1: "On the first day of the week at early dawn…"

John 20:1: "Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark."

The first day of the week is Sunday. In that culture, as throughout the Bible, the day begins with sunset and it could easily be that Yeshua rose Saturday night after sunset but was not found until the early morning of Sunday.
Yes I have heard this argument before and while it is a nice way to try and settle the disagreements between all sides it ignores the parts of the narrative where the opponents and certain disciples of Christ were expectantly waiting to see if He would rise from the dead on the 3rd Day as He claimed. Also when you look at the Greek passages we see that the phrase, "first day of the week" is absent from all of them and we instead read:

mia ton Sabbaton

Sabbaton
is not a Hebrew word just as the Spanish Sabado or the Italian Sabato are: instead these are all transliterations of the Hebrew SHaBBaT which the transliteration in English is Sabbath. Furthermore, as our brother HARK! pointed out earlier in this thread I believe, the Greek suffix -on denotes plurality whereas the Greek Sabbatou is in the singular. Therefore we are being told that the time at which Mary went to the tomb early in the morning:

As it began to dawn towards one of the Sabbaths

The only other time we see this issue in the New Testament is with Paul when he instructed the brethren to lay aside a portion of what they have:

On the first day of every week[...]

But in the Greek we read...

Kata mian Sabbatou

Kata is translated as "every" however the literal rendering is "against". The Greek for every is actually one of three words:

  1. kathe "each, any, every"
  2. pas "every any, each"
  3. ekastos "each, every"

So the Greek should read:

Against one Sabbath

Why then do we read this in our English translations? Simply put Yeshua wisely said, "A tree is known by the fruit it bears" and in Sunday circles and churches that falsely teach "collections" once every week rely on this false and deceptive translation...just as all doctrines revolving around Yeshua rising from the dead on the first day of the week.
 
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Humble Penny

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Yes I have heard this argument before and while it is a nice way to try and settle the disagreements between all sides it ignores the parts of the narrative where the opponents and certain disciples of Christ were expectantly waiting to see if He would rise from the dead on the 3rd Day as He claimed. Also when you look at the Greek passages we see that the phrase, "first day of the week" is absent from all of them and we instead read:

mia ton Sabbaton

Sabbaton
is not a Hebrew word just as the Spanish Sabado or the Italian Sabato are: instead these are all transliterations of the Hebrew SHaBBaT which the transliteration in English is Sabbath. Furthermore, as our brother HARK! pointed out earlier in this thread I believe, the Greek suffix -on denotes plurality whereas the Greek Sabbatou is in the singular. Therefore we are being told that the time at which Mary went to the tomb early in the morning:

As it began to dawn towards one of the Sabbaths

The only other time we see this issue in the New Testament is with Paul when he instructing the brethren to lay aside a portion of what they have:

On the first day of every week[...]

But in the Greek we read...

Kata mian Sabbatou

Kata is translated as "every" however the literal rendering is "against". The Greek for every is actually one of three words:

  1. kathe "each, any, every"
  2. pas "every any, each"
  3. ekastos "each, every"

So the Greek should read:

Against one Sabbath

Why then do we read this in our English translations? Simply put Yeshua wisely said, "A tree is known by the fruit it bears" and in Sunday circles and churches that falsely teach "collections" once every week rely on this false and deceptive translation...just as all doctrines revolving around Yeshua rising from the dead on the first day of the week.
@HARK! @visionary you two are more knowledgable than me when it comes to examinations of the biblical manuscripts, so maybe you two could help flesh this out more or add on to it.
 
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Torah Keeper

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Let's put the Enoch calendar aside a moment. Good idea starting a thread on it Hark.

As Visionary pointed out, Yeshua rose before sunrise on the 1st day of the week.

In my opinion, this was also the Day of Firstfruits of the barley offering. It was from this day that the omer count began.

To get the required 3 days and 3 nights, Yeshua was crucified on Thursday. This means Thursday was the 14th. Friday was the 15th. Shabbat was the 16. Sunday was the 17th. And Sunday was Firstfruits. The day Yeshua rose.

The women had purchased spices and ointments for Yeshua's body, but had no time to prepare His body for burial. The 1st Day of Matsa arrived at sunset after Yeshua was placed in the tomb. The women rested for 2 days. 1st Day of Matsa. And then Shabbat.

Then, before sunrise, they went to finish preparing the body of Christ. But when they arrived, the stone was already rolled away. Yeshua had already risen. How much sooner, I don't know. But from putting the pieces together, it looks to me like He rose just before sunrise.

Putting the crucifixion on Tuesday means the women rested but one day, Wednesday. And they would have returned to the tomb on Thursday. This does not give the required 3 days and 3 nights, and is essentially the same counting problem as a Friday crucifixion. You only get 2 days and 2 nights at the most. If Yeshua stayed in the tomb past Thursday morning, He would have still been in the tomb when the women returned after the Sabbath, if the Sabbath was Matsa 1.

Here is the Tuesday version from what I understand: (Feel free to clarify your view, HP)

  • Day 1-Tuesday afternoon. Yeshua placed in tomb
  • Night 1-Matsa begins.
  • Day 2-Wednesday. Shabbat for Matsa
  • Night 2-Matsa ended.
  • Day 3-Thursday. Yeshua had already risen when the women went to the tomb before sunrise after the Sabbath of Matsa. The day portion is not counted.
As we can see, it doesn't add to 3 days and 3 nights. If Yeshua stayed in the tomb a day longer, until Friday, the women would be arriving at the tomb on a day that was not after a Sabbath, as Visionary quoted.

Putting the crucifixion on Tuesday also means Yeshua did not rise on Sunday. This does not agree with the verses of the women going to the tomb on Sunday.

Now let's consider a Friday crucifixion:
  • Day 1-Friday afternoon. Yeshua placed in tomb.
  • Night 1-Starts Friday at sunset. Weekly Shabbat began.
  • Day 2-Weekly Shabbat ended Saturday at sunset.
  • Night 2-Sunday began at sunset.
  • Day 3-Yeshua was already risen, so the day portion of Sunday is not counted.
So with a Friday crucifixion, we don't get 3 days and 3 nights, but we do get a Sunday resurrection, and we do get the women going to the tomb on a Sunday, after the Sabbath.

Now let's consider a Thursday crucifixion:

  • Day 1-Thursday. Yeshua placed in tomb.
  • Night 1-Began Thursday at sunset. 1st Day of Matsa. Day of rest.
  • Day 2-Friday. Matsa 1 lasted until sunset.
  • Night 2-Began Friday at sunset. Weekly Sabbath.
  • Day 3-Saturday. Weekly Sabbath lasted until sunset.
  • Night 3-Sunday began at sunset.
  • Day 4-Sunday morning. Yeshua had already risen, so the day portion of Sunday is not counted.
This seems to me the best timeline for the crucifixion.
 
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Humble Penny

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In my opinion, this was also the Day of Firstfruits of the barley offering. It was from this day that the omer count began.
(emphasis added mine)

Here you reveal that the rest of your words following this are based solely on your opinon. Can you provide a factual basis that is not based on opinion?
 
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Torah Keeper

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(emphasis added mine)

Here you reveal that the rest of your words following this are based solely on your opinon. Can you provide a factual basis that is not based on opinion?

Because I am humble enough to admit that I do not know everything. So yes. It is my opinion. And your idea of a Tuesday crucifixion is your opinion, which I disagree with. You can call it a fact, but I call it opinion.

Fact: Yeshua is risen! HalleluYAH!!

Opinion: Yeshua was crucified on Friday!
Opinion: Yeshua was crucified on Thursday!
Opinion: Yeshua was crucified on Tuesday!
Opinion: Yeshua was crucified on Wednesday! (I saw this on another thread today)
 
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Humble Penny

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I had considered that approach many years ago; but as some might have been speaking of a different calendar than others; I'm not sure exactly how to present a proof that harmonizes all of scripture.

If I had that part figured out; I would not have created this study. I would have presented a logical argument with my conclusion.

We know that Yahshua could not have taken part in a Pesach seder on the first day of Hag Matzot, on the night of the 15th, then later be executed on Pesach, the day of the 14th.

You are very adept with calendar calculations. That is one reason why I was very excited when you joined us.
All right so I have copy and pasted my answer I gave to this concern from another thread we talked in "First day of the Week" is actually Sabbaton (Introduction)

Continuing from where I left off in my bold claim...

As you all know Christ died on Passover and fulfilled it on the 14th Day of the 1st Month which is Abib (literally "Spring"). By default this makes the Preparation Day/High Sabbath the 13th Day of the same month for the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread/Passover is a Sabbath.

Naturally one must wrestle with the question: "Is the Lord's Supper the same as Passover?" And the answer would be a resounding "No." For the gospel writers use the Greek azymos for "unleavened [bread]" while the Greek artos "bread" from the Greek airos "raised" is used for the bread which Christ and His disciples ate, in short this is what Greeks say when they are eating leavened bread. Just search any Greek or Italian bakery or watch a celebration by the Greek Orthodox church and they always use artos to mean leavened bread:

Dimitris' Greek Recipes
Artos, an aromatic Greek traditional bread

LIVE KITCHEN CHANNEL
Artos - ARTOSKLASIA - Aphrate kai myrodate!! Bread for the day of Holy Mary -LIVE KITCHEN

Historical Italian Cooking
Moretum and Hapalos Artos - Ancient Greek Bread

As far as the Law of Moses is concerned the Israelites may have leaven in their houses anytime before the morning of the 14th of Abib.

When one considers the calendrical schema of Genesis 1:1-2:3 7 Days = 1 Week and vv. 14-19 inform us that because the Sun is the Greater Light the Day comes before the night, therefore the day is reckoned from morning to evening as God distinguishes between the day and the night. Therefore the 1st Day of the 1st Month begins on Wednesday. Proof of this is seen in the timing of Christ's death:

Feast of Unleavened Bread/Passover
14th Day of Abib (Tuesday)
1st Day of Unleavened Bread/Passover (evening)
Christ is buried before evening.
Christ dies on cross at 9th Hour (i.e. 3 p.m.)
Christ crucified at 6th Hour (i.e. 12 p.m.)
Christ sentenced by Pilate (late morning)
Christ stands before Herod (mid morning)
Christ stands before Pilate (morning)

13th of Abib (Monday)
Christ beaten (night)
Peter denies Christ three times (night)
Christ before Annas and Caiaphas (night)
Christ betrayed by Judas (night)
Christ eats Last Supper (evening)
Christ tells Apostles to prepare upper room (daytime)

12th of Abib (Sunday)
Chief priests and elders plot the death of Christ (daytime)

8th of Abib (Wednesday)
Christ raises Lazarus from the dead at Bethany (daytime)

The specific timing of Christ's death may be understood by the literal translation of the Hebrew HaAReBaYiM "the evenings" or literally "between the evenings", and the exact timing of this is revealed in Jubilees 49:1-15:

  1. Remember the commandment which the Lord commanded thee concerning the passover, that thou shouldst celebrate it in its season on the fourteenth of the first month, that thou shouldst kill it before it is evening, and that they should eat it by night on the evening of the fifteenth from the time of the setting of the sun.
  2. For on this night the beginning of the festival and the beginning of the joy ye were eating the passover in Egypt, when all the powers of Mastêmâ had been let loose to slay all the first-born in the land of Egypt, from the first-born of Pharaoh to the first-born of the captive maid-servant in the mill, and to the cattle.
  3. And this is the sign which the Lord gave them: Into every house on the lintels of which they saw the blood of a lamb of the first year, into (that) house they should not enter to slay, but should pass by (it), that all those should be saved that were in the house because the sign of the blood was on its lintels.
  4. And the powers of the Lord did everything according as the Lord commanded them, and they passed by all the children of Israel, and the plague came not upon them to destroy from amongst them any soul either of cattle, or man, or dog.
  5. And the plague was very grievous in Egypt, and there was no house in Egypt where there was not one dead, and weeping and lamentation.
  6. And all Israel was eating the flesh of the paschal lamb, and drinking the wine, and was lauding, and blessing, and giving thanks to the Lord God of their fathers, and was ready to go forth from under the yoke of Egypt, and from the evil bondage.
  7. And remember thou this day all the days of thy life, and observe it from year to year all the days of thy life, once a year, on its day, according to all the law thereof, and do not adjourn (it) from day to day, or from month to month.
  8. For it is an eternal ordinance, and engraven on the heavenly tablets regarding all the children of Israel that they should observe it every year on its day once a year, throughout all their generations; and there is no limit of days, for this is ordained for ever.
  9. And the man who is free from uncleanness, and does not come to observe it on occasion of its day, so as to bring an acceptable offering before the Lord, and to eat and to drink before the Lord on the day of its festival, that man who is clean and close at hand shall be cut off: because he offered not the oblation of the Lord in its appointed season, he shall take the guilt upon himself.
  10. Let the children of Israel come and observe the passover on the day of its fixed time, on the fourteenth day of the first month, between the evenings, from the third part of the day to the third part of the night, for two portions of the day are given to the light, and a third part to the evening.
  11. This is that which the Lord commanded thee that thou shouldst observe it between the evenings.
  12. And it is not permissible to slay it during any period of the light, but during the period bordering on the evening, and let them eat it at the time of the evening, until the third part of the night, and whatever is left over of all its flesh from the third part of the night and onwards, let them burn it with fire.
  13. And they shall not cook it with water, nor shall they eat it raw, but roast on the fire: they shall eat it with diligence, its head with the inwards thereof and its feet they shall roast with fire, and not break any bone thereof; for of the children of Israel no bone shall be crushed.
  14. For this reason the Lord commanded the children of Israel to observe the passover on the day of its fixed time, and they shall not break a bone thereof; for it is a festival day, and a day commanded, and there may be no passing over from day to day, and month to month, but on the day of its festival let it be observed.
  15. And do thou command the children of Israel to observe the passover throughout their days, every year, once a year on the day of its fixed time, and it shall come for a memorial well pleasing before the Lord, and no plague shall come upon them to slay or to smite in that year in which they celebrate the passover in its season in every respect according to His command.
This is why the Gospel writers bother to explain the exact timing of Christ's death to the very hour and day. With that out of the way there should be no doubt as to the timing of Christ's death on Passover or the Lord's Supper which Christ will not take until the Marriage Feast of the Lamb in Revelation 19:9.

If that wasn't enough then consider how the meaning of the passages change when you alter their word order in English:

Matthew 26:17 (Uncorrected)
"Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, 'Where will you have us prepare for you to eat the Passover?'"
Matthew 26:17 (Corrected)
"The disciples came to Jesus, saying, 'Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread where will you have us prepare for you to eat the Passover?'"

Mark 14:12 (Uncorrected)

"And on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they sacrificed the Passover lamb, his disciples said to him, 'Where will you have us go and prepare for you to eat the Passover?'"
Mark 14:12 (Corrected)
"And His disciples said to him, 'On the first day of Unleavened Bread (when they sacrificed the Passover lamb) Where will you have us go and prepare for you to eat the Passover?'"


Luke 22:1 (Uncorrected)
"Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed."
Luke 22:1 (Corrected)
"The day of Unleavened Bread then drew near (engizen), on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed."

Of course this should come to no surprise as Satan twisted the Word of God when speaking to Eve, and again when He spoke to Christ in the wilderness when he quoted from Psalms. Anyways the words of the apostles show that they truly didn't understand that Christ must die and rise on the third day, or else they wouldn't have asked such a silly question.

Concerning the "first day of the week" the Greek reads Sabbaton with the suffix -on denoting when a thing is plural. Below is my reconstruction of how the Greek should be properly read:

Greek Interlinear
"Opse de Sabbaton te epiphoskouse eis mian Sabbaton[...]"

Literal Translation
"After then Sabbaths it being dawn
toward an Sabbaths[...]"


Literal Translation with Correct word order
"Then after Sabbaths it being dawn
toward an Sabbaths[...]"


As you can shockingly see where "first day of the week" normally appears we read in the Greek as "Sabbaths"! Why is Sabbath plural? Upon closer inspection we see that the translators and lexicon deceptively translate the Greek mian as "first" when the true word for "first" is proto as in prototype "first type". Instead mian is from the Greek enas which is the indefinite article for "a, an". This means that the text is telling us that both Mary's appeared at the tomb with the spices between two Sabbaths! The first is observed on Passover which is also the first day for the Feast of Unleavened Bread; and the other is the 7th Day Sabbath. While the Hebrew SHaBuA is literally "week" it is not the same as SHaBBaT "Sabbath" which denotes HaSHaBuAH YoM "The Seventh Day". So while all three words share the root SHB it is very deceitful to equate SHaBBaT with SHaBuA when it is well known that the former comes from SHaVaT "cease, desist". Therefore I've been very adamant in saying that the Greek transliteration Sabbaton is not "week" but, "Sabbaths".

What then do we make of the other instances of "first day of the week"?:

"Sopater the Berean, son of Pyrrhus, accompanied him; and of the Thessalonians, Aristarchus and Secundus; and Gaius of Derbe, and Timothy; and the Asians, Tychicus and Trophimus. These went on ahead and were waiting for us at Troas, but we sailed away from Philippi after the days of Unleavened Bread, and in five days we came to them at Troas, where we stayed for seven days. On the first day of the week (sabbaton plural), when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight."
Acts 20:4-7

Here we are told that Paul was attending the Feast of Unleavened Bread and set sail on the 16th Day of the 1st Month as traveling for 1 Day or longer is not lawful on the Sabbath. From here we are told he was in a rush to set sail so he could attend Pentecost/Feast of Weeks (see Acts 20:13-16). Outside of this context the words of Luke become unintelligible.

"Now concerning the collection for the saints: as I directed the churches of Galatia, so you also are to do. On the first day of every week (sabbatou singular), each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come."
1 Corinthians 16:1-2

Here unlike the previous passage we are talking of the 7th Day Sabbath. The only reason why the English translations read the way they do is for Sunday keeping False Churches to justify partaking of the Lord's Supper and collecting unbiblical tithes every Sunday for 52 Weeks of every year...and the crux of these false doctrines rest upon the main false teaching that Christ rose on Sunday! The Law of Moses states that the Israelites were to lay up a tithe/tenth of what they earned or produced each year and in the third year they were to bring their tithes to God.
 
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Humble Penny

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Because I am humble enough to admit that I do not know everything. So yes. It is my opinion. And your idea of a Tuesday crucifixion is your opinion, which I disagree with. You can call it a fact, but I call it opinion.

Fact: Yeshua is risen! HalleluYAH!!

Opinion: Yeshua was crucified on Friday!
Opinion: Yeshua was crucified on Thursday!
Opinion: Yeshua was crucified on Tuesday!
Opinion: Yeshua was crucified on Wednesday! (I saw this on another thread today)
My dear brother, confidently stating things as fact and proving it is not a sign of pride or arrogance. While it is obviously not wrong to have an opinon, it is a poor way to pass on teachings and act is if they are true when they are probably not. Opinion used in its proper place and time is good, but outisde of this it is on the same level as hearsay and vain specualtion.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Because I am humble enough to admit that I do not know everything. So yes. It is my opinion. And your idea of a Tuesday crucifixion is your opinion, which I disagree with. You can call it a fact, but I call it opinion.

Fact: Yeshua is risen! HalleluYAH!!

Opinion: Yeshua was crucified on Friday!
Opinion: Yeshua was crucified on Thursday!
Opinion: Yeshua was crucified on Tuesday!
Opinion: Yeshua was crucified on Wednesday! (I saw this on another thread today)

But should we believe the timeline of the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus? They said THAT day (Sunday) was the 3rd day since the events happened. The day those events happened would have been on erev Shabbat.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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The Feast of First-fruits Circumcision instituted. The Promise of Isaac's Birth. Circumcision ordained for all Israel (xv. 1-34; cf. Gen. xvii.)

"XV. And in the 5th year of the week of this jubilee, in the 3rd month, in the middle of the month, Abram celebrated the feast of the first-fruits of the grain harvest. And he offered new offerings on the altar, the first-fruits of the produce, unto the Lord, an heifer and a goat and a sheep on the altar as a burnt sacrifice unto the Lord; their fruit-offerings and their drink-offerings he offered upon the altar with frankincense."

Was the Angel of the Presence who gave the Law to Moses on Mount Sinai mistaken in his understanding of the Laws of God? The only way to land in the middle of the month is if each month is a solar month of 30 Days:

30 Days / 2 = 15 Days

And what does Moses tell us in the Torah?

"You shall celebrate the Feast of Weeks, that is, the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the turn of the year."
Exodus 34:22 NASB1995 (emphasis added mine)

Moses explicity says Feast of Weeks = First Fruits.

I think you are misunderstand it. They are BOTH first fruits...the first in Aviv is for BARLEY...50 days later is for WHEAT on Shavuot. Yeshua rose on the day in Aviv, he was the barley first fruits then we are the first of the wheat on Shavuot. Yeshua ascends and there is a long time period before the ingathering at Sukkot.
 
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Torah Keeper

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But should we believe the timeline of the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus? They said THAT day (Sunday) was the 3rd day since the events happened. The day those events happened would have been on erev Shabbat.

Depends what you mean by 3rd day since. If something happened today, it is zero days since, it is the same day, no days have passed since it happened.

If something happened yesteday, it is one day since it happened.

If something happened the day before yesterday, it is 2 days since it happened.

So, if it is Sunday, and something happened last Thursday, it would be the 3rd day since.

Thursday-Same day. Zero days since.
Friday-Day after. One day since.
Shabbat-2 days since.
Sunday-3 days since.

You said "erev Shabbat" but I think you meant before Shabbat. Erev Shabbat is part of Shabbat and Yeshua was crucified before Erev Shabbat.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Depends what you mean by 3rd day since. If something happened today, it is zero days since, it is the same day, no days have passed since it happened.

If something happened yesteday, it is one day since it happened.

If something happened the day before yesterday, it is 2 days since it happened.

So, if it is Sunday, and something happened last Thursday, it would be the 3rd day since.

Thursday-Same day. Zero days since.
Friday-Day after. One day since.
Shabbat-2 days since.
Sunday-3 days since.

You said "erev Shabbat" but I think you meant before Shabbat. Erev Shabbat is part of Shabbat and Yeshua was crucified before Erev Shabbat.

Erev Shabbat is Friday, not yet Shabbat. After sunset is already Shabbat. You need to use inclusive counting. Sunday is the 3rd day, Shabbat was the 2nd day and Friday was the day those events happened.
 
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Filippus

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Let's put the Enoch calendar aside a moment. Good idea starting a thread on it Hark.

As Visionary pointed out, Yeshua rose before sunrise on the 1st day of the week.

In my opinion, this was also the Day of Firstfruits of the barley offering. It was from this day that the omer count began.

To get the required 3 days and 3 nights, Yeshua was crucified on Thursday. This means Thursday was the 14th. Friday was the 15th. Shabbat was the 16. Sunday was the 17th. And Sunday was Firstfruits. The day Yeshua rose.

The women had purchased spices and ointments for Yeshua's body, but had no time to prepare His body for burial. The 1st Day of Matsa arrived at sunset after Yeshua was placed in the tomb. The women rested for 2 days. 1st Day of Matsa. And then Shabbat.

Then, before sunrise, they went to finish preparing the body of Christ. But when they arrived, the stone was already rolled away. Yeshua had already risen. How much sooner, I don't know. But from putting the pieces together, it looks to me like He rose just before sunrise.

Putting the crucifixion on Tuesday means the women rested but one day, Wednesday. And they would have returned to the tomb on Thursday. This does not give the required 3 days and 3 nights, and is essentially the same counting problem as a Friday crucifixion. You only get 2 days and 2 nights at the most. If Yeshua stayed in the tomb past Thursday morning, He would have still been in the tomb when the women returned after the Sabbath, if the Sabbath was Matsa 1.

Here is the Tuesday version from what I understand: (Feel free to clarify your view, HP)

  • Day 1-Tuesday afternoon. Yeshua placed in tomb
  • Night 1-Matsa begins.
  • Day 2-Wednesday. Shabbat for Matsa
  • Night 2-Matsa ended.
  • Day 3-Thursday. Yeshua had already risen when the women went to the tomb before sunrise after the Sabbath of Matsa. The day portion is not counted.
As we can see, it doesn't add to 3 days and 3 nights. If Yeshua stayed in the tomb a day longer, until Friday, the women would be arriving at the tomb on a day that was not after a Sabbath, as Visionary quoted.

Putting the crucifixion on Tuesday also means Yeshua did not rise on Sunday. This does not agree with the verses of the women going to the tomb on Sunday.

Now let's consider a Friday crucifixion:
  • Day 1-Friday afternoon. Yeshua placed in tomb.
  • Night 1-Starts Friday at sunset. Weekly Shabbat began.
  • Day 2-Weekly Shabbat ended Saturday at sunset.
  • Night 2-Sunday began at sunset.
  • Day 3-Yeshua was already risen, so the day portion of Sunday is not counted.
So with a Friday crucifixion, we don't get 3 days and 3 nights, but we do get a Sunday resurrection, and we do get the women going to the tomb on a Sunday, after the Sabbath.

Now let's consider a Thursday crucifixion:

  • Day 1-Thursday. Yeshua placed in tomb.
  • Night 1-Began Thursday at sunset. 1st Day of Matsa. Day of rest.
  • Day 2-Friday. Matsa 1 lasted until sunset.
  • Night 2-Began Friday at sunset. Weekly Sabbath.
  • Day 3-Saturday. Weekly Sabbath lasted until sunset.
  • Night 3-Sunday began at sunset.
  • Day 4-Sunday morning. Yeshua had already risen, so the day portion of Sunday is not counted.
This seems to me the best timeline for the crucifixion.
Very well explained.

Next step you have to acknowledge that the scriptures uses the word "Preparation"
Multiple times but doesn't refer to the same day.

Matt 26:17
Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread (Passover Week) the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?”

isn't the same day as

Matthew 27:62
The next day, that is, the day after the [day of] preparation [for the Sabbath], the chief priests and the Pharisees assembled before Pilate,

Therfore u are using Matthew 27 to prove that he was crucified on the 14th yet you have forgotten that Jesus celebrated it Matthew 26 placing His capture on the morning of the 15th

Shalom
 
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