SDA Basic Belief 27: God Will Give the Earth to Satan’s Angels

[tall73]

In "that part" of the chapter..

Which is connected to the one you posted by connecting words for a reason.

Those reading can see whether you are dealing with the context in a straight-forward manner:

Jer 4:5 Declare in Judah, and proclaim in Jerusalem, and say, “Blow the trumpet through the land; cry aloud and say, ‘Assemble, and let us go into the fortified cities!’
Jer 4:6 Raise a standard toward Zion, flee for safety, stay not, for I bring disaster from the north, and great destruction.
Jer 4:7 A lion has gone up from his thicket, a destroyer of nations has set out; he has gone out from his place to make your land a waste; your cities will be ruins without inhabitant.
Jer 4:8 For this put on sackcloth, lament and wail, for the fierce anger of the LORD has not turned back from us.”

The cities in Judah will be laid waste because of the anger of the Lord. A destroyer of nations has set out.

This is referring to the soon coming judgment brought against Judah by Babylon, the referenced destroyer of nations. The prophets spoke at length of it.

Jer 4:9 “In that day, declares the LORD, courage shall fail both king and officials. The priests shall be appalled and the prophets astounded.”
Jer 4:10 Then I said, “Ah, Lord GOD, surely you have utterly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, ‘It shall be well with you,’ whereas the sword has reached their very life.”
Jer 4:11 At that time it will be said to this people and to Jerusalem, “A hot wind from the bare heights in the desert toward the daughter of my people, not to winnow or cleanse,
Jer 4:12 a wind too full for this comes for me. Now it is I who speak in judgment upon them.”
Jer 4:13 Behold, he comes up like clouds; his chariots like the whirlwind; his horses are swifter than eagles— woe to us, for we are ruined!
Jer 4:14 O Jerusalem, wash your heart from evil, that you may be saved. How long shall your wicked thoughts lodge within you?
Jer 4:15 For a voice declares from Dan and proclaims trouble from Mount Ephraim.
Jer 4:16 Warn the nations that he is coming; announce to Jerusalem, “Besiegers come from a distant land; they shout against the cities of Judah.

A power that besieges, again a reference to Babylon. It does not describe the judgment in Rev. 19. There is no siege there.


Jer 4:17 Like keepers of a field are they against her all around, because she has rebelled against me, declares the LORD.
Jer 4:18 Your ways and your deeds have brought this upon you. This is your doom, and it is bitter; it has reached your very heart.”

They will be surrounded. This is happening because of their deeds.

Jer 4:19 My anguish, my anguish! I writhe in pain! Oh the walls of my heart! My heart is beating wildly; I cannot keep silent, for I hear the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.
Jer 4:20 Crash follows hard on crash; the whole land is laid waste. Suddenly my tents are laid waste, my curtains in a moment.
Jer 4:21 How long must I see the standard and hear the sound of the trumpet?
Jer 4:22 “For my people are foolish; they know me not; they are stupid children; they have no understanding. They are ‘wise’—in doing evil! But how to do good they know not.”


Crash upon crash, the whole land laid waste, describing the conuquest of the cities. Now you claim the following verses are a contextual island and speak of the 1k years. But that doesn't follow at all.


Jer 4:23 I looked on the earth, and behold, it was without form and void; and to the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, and all the hills moved to and fro.
Jer 4:25 I looked, and behold, there was no man, and all the birds of the air had fled.

He uses language of the pre-creation earth to emphasize the extent of the devastation. But we don't see here birds feasting, as you referenced in Rev. 19 but no birds at all, because even they are pictured as fleeing the devastation.

Jer 4:26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a desert, and all its cities were laid in ruins before the LORD, before his fierce anger.

The cities are destroyed, as foretold at the beginning of the chapter.


Jer 4:27 For thus says the LORD, “The whole land shall be a desolation; yet I will not make a full end.
Jer 4:28 “For this the earth shall mourn, and the heavens above be dark; for I have spoken; I have purposed; I have not relented, nor will I turn back.”

The heavens and earth are said to mourn because of the judgment poured out. But He will not make a full end.

Jer 4:29 At the noise of horseman and archer every city takes to flight; they enter thickets; they climb among rocks; all the cities are forsaken, and no man dwells in them.

The cities are abandoned as it is seen the forces are overwhelming.


Jer 4:30 And you, O desolate one, what do you mean that you dress in scarlet, that you adorn yourself with ornaments of gold, that you enlarge your eyes with paint? In vain you beautify yourself. Your lovers despise you; they seek your life.
Jer 4:31 For I heard a cry as of a woman in labor, anguish as of one giving birth to her first child, the cry of the daughter of Zion gasping for breath, stretching out her hands, “Woe is me! I am fainting before murderers.”

This theme has been stated before by the prophets. God's idolatrous people who turned to the gods of the nations are now being destroyed by the adulterous lovers they turned to instead of the Lord.

Which is pretty much a "bust" for the idea that in the vs 23-26 context "people are still there"

It is not bust at all. He sees no people because they fled or were killed, etc. when the armies came.

What is a bust is your insistence on saying no text has context because you are aware of one in a place that doesn't.

The birds element doesn't match up with Rev. 19. The reference to Judah doesn't match up. The reference to horsemen and sieges doesn't match up. The only things this shows is you must ignore context to hold the Adventist view.

Just as you had to ignore the descriptions of the abyss to take the view that the earth was represented by the abyss in chapter 20, when the abyss was already seen to be a pit, have a key, with things coming out of it, a place of holding, etc. And those same elements are present in chapter 20 where the abyss is sealed over him.

 

[BobRyan]

Those reading can see whether you are dealing with the context in a straight-forward manner:

I agree -- that's why I posted this --

===================================
Notice what we find in this thread -- Nothing but a "desolate Earth" left after the appearing of Christ

DESOLATE Earth with hills "moving" and cities left in ruins

Jer 4:
23 I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness;
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills jolted back and forth.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,
And all the birds of the sky had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were pulled down
Before the Lord, before His fierce anger.


Jer 4:23 I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void;
And to the heavens, and they had no light. (NASB 1955)

there we see that "NO HUMAN" is not a funny kind of way of say "YES lots of humans"

1. The EARTH - without form and void - 4:23
2. The HEAVENS - had no light 4:23
3. Mountains - quaking 4:24
4. Hills - moving back and forth 4:24
5. NO Humans - 4:25
6. BIRDS - had fled - 4:25
7. ALL cities in ruins before the ANGER of the LORD 4:26
8. Earth is not completely destroyed -- but is DESOLATE 4:27
9. Heavens are dark 4:28

=========================

No one left to bury the dead - so corpses left on the ground and birds consume them.

Rev 19
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great feast of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, both free and slaves, and small and great.”


21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Both OT and NT refer to the corpses left and birds eating dead remains

Jer 25:33
“Those slain by the LORD on that day will be from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be lamented, gathered or buried; they will be like dung on the face of the ground.

Ez 32:4-8
4 ""I will leave you on the land; I will cast you on the open field. And I will cause all the birds of the heavens to dwell on you, And I will satisfy the beasts of the whole earth with you.
5 ""I will lay your flesh on the mountains And fill the valleys with your refuse.
6 ""I will also make the land drink the discharge of your blood As far as the mountains, And the ravines will be full of you.
7 ""And when I extinguish you, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud And the moon will not give its light.
8 ""All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you And will set darkness on your land,'' Declares the Lord GOD.


Jer 4:23
I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no man, And all the birds of the heavens had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness, And all its cities were pulled down Before the LORD, before His fierce anger.

Zeph 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one, Of all the inhabitants of the earth.

======================

Jer 4:
23 I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness;
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills jolted back and forth.

Not "I just looked at Judah".... details matter

 

[tall73]

@The Liturgist
@ewq1938

DESOLATE Earth with hills "moving" and cities left in ruins

Jer 4:
23 I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness;
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills jolted back and forth.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,
And all the birds of the sky had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were pulled down
Before the Lord, before His fierce anger.

Even with a text extracted from its context the details still don't match. You emphasize the birds feasting, and your own text says there were no birds. Nor does Rev. 19 and 20 say that the earth is without form and void at that time. But you insist it is speaking of the same thing. And you have to, because to do otherwise is to abandon the Adventist view.

To admit that the abyss is described in earlier chapters of Revelation and is not the desolate earth, because it existed when the earth was not desolate, and is a pit with a key, is to abandon the Adventist view, so you cannot do that.

For those who don't know why Bob cannot choose to read the texts in context you can read this chapter. His positions and proof texts are spelled out for him. As @icedragon101 stated he is locked in to that. He cannot depart from Ellen White.

The Great Controversy, by Ellen G. White. Chapter 41: Desolation of the Earth

Here is one selection:

That the expression "bottomless pit" represents the earth in a state of confusion and darkness is evident from other scriptures. Concerning the condition of the earth "in the beginning," the Bible record says that it "was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." Genesis 1:2. Prophecy teaches that it will be brought back, partially at least, to this condition. Looking forward to the great day of God, the prophet Jeremiah declares: "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down." Jeremiah 4:23-26.

Here is to be the home of Satan with his evil angels for a thousand years. Limited to the earth, he will not have access to other worlds to tempt and annoy those who have never fallen. It is in this sense that he is bound: there are none remaining, upon whom he can exercise his power. He is wholly cut off from the work of deception and ruin which for so many centuries has been his sole delight.

Note she says:

That the expression "bottomless pit" represents the earth in a state of confusion and darkness is evident from other scriptures.

But she ignores the existing references to the abyss in the book of Revelation that do not match up with this at all and quotes from Genesis instead. Then she pulls in Jeremiah 4.

So no matter how strained Bob's argumentation, he must defend these extracted proof-text arguments.

This is why Icedragon is calling for reform. Ice actually believes in the scripture testing that the denomination claims to do. He will examine what the text says, even if it doesn't agree with Ellen White.

 

[The Liturgist]

you have free will of course and can claim anything you wish.

I point to ChristianityToday's claim about Seventh-day Adventist's growth to the point of being the 5th largest Christian communion world wide since it is an independent source from the Seventh-day Adventist church.



I am glad we can agree on something.



Turns out - I don't pretend and I do not write for ChristianityToday... If you would like them to change their article -- I suggest you contact them.

Their article is in error as I have explained, and I will contact them, but I think it would behoove us not to quote them, or promote their figures, given the obvious nature of their error, unless you want to deny the existence of the Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, Oriental Orthodox, and Calvary Chapel, among others.

 

[The Liturgist]

List of Christian denominations by number of members - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would note that list completely substantiates my claim, even though my sources were independent.

 

[The Liturgist]

Oh interesting, Wikipedia has newer numbers than I do, reporting the Evangelical Church in Germany at 21.2 members and the SDA at 21.4, which shows the German church is growing at a slightly faster rate than the SDA. This only applies if we count national churches and not communions.

 

[ewq1938]

Regardless of how far you suppose one can insert Satan in the ground -- you are leaving him "on Earth" even in your view with no access to humans.

No, he is not on the Earth, he is in the Earth in the pit.

Jer 4 and Rev 19 already point out that God arranges the 1000 years so there are "no humans" on Earth for that 1000 years

Neither of those say anything about no humans on the Earth during the thousand years. Jer 4 mentions many people, and Revelation 19 in particular promises there are humans during that time...remember the whole future tense verb used for "rule"?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I just remembered something Ellen White Endorsed the Satan bound ON the earth for 1000 years theory.so Bob might be inadvertently trying to protect Ellen White and not be aware of it. If he admits the 1000 years is wrong, he might have to admit Ellen is wrong. This is how EGW effects the theology of the Church and the SDA mind.

 

[Freth]

What does scripture say?

The second coming, as described in 1 Thessalonians:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

13-15 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
​

The scene of the second coming, largely as it pertains to the wicked, described in Revelation 19:

Revelation 19:11-21

Jesus leaves heaven to come to earth, bringing the armies of heaven with Him:

11-16 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
​

Birds are gathered to feast on the flesh of the dead:

17-18 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
​

The kings of the earth try to make war with Jesus, seen coming in the clouds:

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
​

The beast and the false prophet taken and cast alive into the lake of fire (note, not Satan).

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
​

The wicked are slain and the birds feast:

21 And the remnant [the wicked] were slain [the first death] with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
​

Thus ends Revelation 19. Immediately after, in Revelation 20, we see Satan bound:

Revelation 20:1-15​

Symbolic language describing the earth as a prison:​

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit [prison] and a great chain in his hand [to bind].​

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,​

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more [speaking of his past deeds; the wicked are already dead, there is no one to deceive at this time], till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

bottomless: ἄβυσσος ábyssos, ab'-us-sos; from G1 (as a negative particle) and a variation of G1037; depthless, i.e. (specially) (infernal) "abyss":—deep, (bottomless) pit.

pit: φρέαρ phréar, freh'-ar; of uncertain derivation; a hole in the ground (dug for obtaining or holding water or other purposes), i.e. a cistern or well; figuratively, an abyss (as a prison):—well, pit.

i.e. A prison from which there is no escape.​

The judgment of the wicked:​

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

The wicked are dead until after the thousand year reign, after which they are resurrected (the second resurrection):

5 But the rest of the dead [the remnant described in Revelation 19:21] lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection [the first resurrection is for the righteous, not the wicked].
​

The righteous in heaven, reigning with Jesus for a thousand years:

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
​

Satan gathers the wicked that were resurrected:

7-9 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations [multitudes, peoples, tongues; Revelation 17:15] which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea [all the wicked from earth's 6000 year history]. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.​

The fate of Satan:

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
​

The fate of the wicked dead (i.e. judgment and the second death):

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell [1 Thessalonians 4:13-18] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.​

Immediately after, sin having been conquered, a new heaven and new earth is described in Revelation 21.

Conclusion:

• Jesus comes in the clouds with the wrath of God. Revelation 19:11-16
  
• The saints are resurrected (the first resurrection), and those alive are gathered to be with them in the clouds. Revelation 19:5-6; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
  
• Birds are gathered for the feast of dead flesh. Revelation 19:17-18
  
• The kings of the earth try to make war with Jesus coming in the clouds. Revelation 19:18-19
  
• The beast and the false prophet are taken and cast alive into the lake of fire. Revelation 19:20
  
• The wicked die by the sword that proceeds out of the mouth of Jesus (His words). There are no more left humans on the earth. Revelation 19:21
  
• Satan is bound on an earthly prison for a thousand years—alone (with his fallen angels). Revelation 20:1-3 (The earth is in ruin from the final cataclysmic events of the end time.)
  
• The saints go to heaven and reign with Jesus for a thousand years. The saints judge the wicked during this time. Revelation 20:4
  
• The second resurrection takes place on earth after the thousand year reign. Satan is loosed and gathers the wicked to take the camp of the saints, the city (New Jerusalem). Revelation 20:5, Revelation 20:7-9
  
• All wicked, having been judged, are destroyed by fire. Revelation 20:10-15
  
• There is no mention of the wicked after they are thrown into the lake of fire, nor of Satan.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

What does scripture say?

The second coming, as described in 1 Thessalonians:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

13-15 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
​

The scene of the second coming, largely as it pertains to the wicked, described in Revelation 19:

Revelation 19:11-21

Jesus leaves heaven to come to earth, bringing the armies of heaven with Him:

11-16 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
​

Birds are gathered to feast on the flesh of the dead:

17-18 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
​

The kings of the earth try to make war with Jesus, seen coming in the clouds:

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
​

The beast and the false prophet taken and cast alive into the lake of fire (note, not Satan).

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
​

The wicked are slain and the birds feast:

21 And the remnant [the wicked] were slain [the first death] with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
​

Thus ends Revelation 19. Immediately after, in Revelation 20, we see Satan bound:

Revelation 20:1-15​

Symbolic language describing the earth as a prison:​

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit [prison] and a great chain in his hand [to bind].​

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,​

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more [speaking of his past deeds; the wicked are already dead, there is no one to deceive at this time], till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

bottomless: ἄβυσσος ábyssos, ab'-us-sos; from G1 (as a negative particle) and a variation of G1037; depthless, i.e. (specially) (infernal) "abyss":—deep, (bottomless) pit.

pit: φρέαρ phréar, freh'-ar; of uncertain derivation; a hole in the ground (dug for obtaining or holding water or other purposes), i.e. a cistern or well; figuratively, an abyss (as a prison):—well, pit.

i.e. A prison from which there is no escape.​

The judgment of the wicked:​

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

The wicked are dead until after the thousand year reign, after which they are resurrected (the second resurrection):

5 But the rest of the dead [the remnant described in Revelation 19:21] lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection [the first resurrection is for the righteous, not the wicked].
​

The righteous in heaven, reigning with Jesus for a thousand years:

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
​

Satan gathers the wicked that were resurrected:

7-9 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations [multitudes, peoples, tongues; Revelation 17:15] which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea [all the wicked from earth's 6000 year history]. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.​

The fate of Satan:

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
​

The fate of the wicked dead (i.e. judgment and the second death):

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell [1 Thessalonians 4:13-18] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.​

Immediately after, sin having been conquered, a new heaven and new earth is described in Revelation 21.

Conclusion:

• Jesus comes in the clouds with the wrath of God. Revelation 19:11-16
  
• The saints are resurrected (the first resurrection), and those alive are gathered to be with them in the clouds. Revelation 19:5-6; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
  
• Birds are gathered for the feast of dead flesh. Revelation 19:17-18
  
• The kings of the earth try to make war with Jesus coming in the clouds. Revelation 19:18-19
  
• The beast and the false prophet are taken and cast alive into the lake of fire. Revelation 19:20
  
• The wicked die by the sword that proceeds out of the mouth of Jesus (His words). There are no more left humans on the earth. Revelation 19:21
  
• Satan is bound on an earthly prison for a thousand years—alone (with his fallen angels). Revelation 20:1-3 (The earth is in ruin from the final cataclysmic events of the end time.)
  
• The saints go to heaven and reign with Jesus for a thousand years. The saints judge the wicked during this time. Revelation 20:4
  
• The second resurrection takes place on earth after the thousand year reign. Satan is loosed and gathers the wicked to take the camp of the saints, the city (New Jerusalem). Revelation 20:5, Revelation 20:7-9
  
• All wicked, having been judged, are destroyed by fire. Revelation 20:10-15
  
• There is no mention of the wicked after they are thrown into the lake of fire, nor of Satan.

1. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 - is about going to the marriage supper of the Lamb in heaven,(advent) not the 2nd coming. this because you don't believe there is a soul that can go to heaven upon accepting Christ. "even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. How is God bringing, from heven those that are asleep if they are in the grave. Some part has to be with Him in Heaven in order to bring with him.
2. Revelation 19 is about the 2nd Coming to the earth and the end of the wicked and the beginning of the 1k years of peace and prosparity. This is what the Sabbath points to,
3.
a. Rev 20 is about binding Satan in the pit. look at your text highlighted below. how you miss that you contradicted yourself I don't know. God must be sheilding your mind. No where dose the text say the earth is the pit. you are reading into the text something that is not there
b. Satan is loosed from the pit.
c. Satan is loosed & deceives the Nations - Where did these nations come from? Were they in heaven or on earth. they did not exist for the 1000 years in the SDA View.
d. then the rest of the dead are resurrected. after Satan is thrown in the lake of fire
4. New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven


3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more [speaking of his past deeds; the wicked are already dead, there is no one to deceive at this time], till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

bottomless: ἄβυσσος ábyssos, ab'-us-sos; from G1 (as a negative particle) and a variation of G1037; depthless, i.e. (specially) (infernal) "abyss":—deep, (bottomless) pit.

pit: φρέαρ phréar, freh'-ar; of uncertain derivation; a hole in the ground (dug for obtaining or holding water or other purposes), i.e. a cistern or well; figuratively, an abyss (as a prison):—well, pit.

i.e. A prison from which there is no escape.

Where do you see the earth mentioned in the Highlighted sections ?

 

[Freth]

1. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 - is about going to the marriage supper of the Lamb in heaven,(advent) not the 2nd coming. this because you don't believe there is a soul that can go to heaven upon accepting Christ. "even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. How is God bringing, from heven those that are asleep if they are in the grave. Some part has to be with Him in Heaven in order to bring with him.
2. Revelation 19 is about the 2nd Coming to the earth and the end of the wicked and the beginning of the 1k years of peace and prosparity. This is what the Sabbath points to,
3.
a. Rev 20 is about binding Satan in the pit. look at your text highlighted below. how you miss that you contradicted yourself I don't know. God must be sheilding your mind. No where dose the text say the earth is the pit. you are reading into the text something that is not there
b. Satan is loosed from the pit.
c. Satan is loosed & deceives the Nations - Where did these nations come from? Were they in heaven or on earth. they did not exist for the 1000 years in the SDA View.
d. then the rest of the dead are resurrected. after Satan is thrown in the lake of fire
4. New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven


3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more [speaking of his past deeds; the wicked are already dead, there is no one to deceive at this time], till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

bottomless: ἄβυσσος ábyssos, ab'-us-sos; from G1 (as a negative particle) and a variation of G1037; depthless, i.e. (specially) (infernal) "abyss":—deep, (bottomless) pit.

pit: φρέαρ phréar, freh'-ar; of uncertain derivation; a hole in the ground (dug for obtaining or holding water or other purposes), i.e. a cistern or well; figuratively, an abyss (as a prison):—well, pit.

i.e. A prison from which there is no escape.

Where do you see the earth mentioned in the Highlighted sections ?

The bottomless pit (prison) is on earth, as per scripture:

Revelation 9:1-2 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.​

 

[Adventist Dissident]

The bottomless pit (prison) is on earth, as per scripture:

Revelation 9:1-2 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.​

so what is your point? it contradicts what you are saying. we don't disagree that the earth is mentioned in that passage, but what it says not what you says it says. How you miss that is mind blowing to me.

1. Star falls from heaven to earth
2. Star is on earth and is given the key to the pit
3. Star is on the earth opens the pit in the earth
4. out of the pit come smoke,
5. Smoke darkens the the air.

Now where do you see your point. Please point it out.

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

Please address the post, not the Poster.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[tall73]

Freth said: ↑

Revelation 20:1-15

Symbolic language describing the earth as a prison:


Freth said: ↑
The bottomless pit (prison) is on earth, as per scripture:

Revelation 9:1-2 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.​

In Revelation 9 people are still on earth, and it is not desolate.

So it is not symbolic language for the whole earth as a prison, but of a particular place of imprisonment. The language is similar in chapter 20.

threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him

As noted earlier we also see it referenced in Luke:

Luk 8:30 Jesus then asked him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” for many demons had entered him.
Luk 8:31 And they begged him not to command them to depart into the abyss.

 

[chad kincham]

All humans have a soul.



Memorize them.

Actually the doctrine they espouse - which is soul sleep - is that the soul sleeps in the grave until the body is resurrected.

So they believe hell is the grave, that no souls of dead Christians are in heaven, and that souls of the damned are annihilated, and cease to exist.

Shalom

 

[chad kincham]

MOD HAT ON

Please address the post, not the Poster.

MOD HAT OFF​

Cute picture, but she has no hat! heh

 

[BobRyan]

so what is your point? it contradicts what you are saying. we don't disagree that the earth is mentioned in that passage, but what it says not what you says it says. How you miss that is mind blowing to me.

1. Star falls from heaven to earth
2. Star is on earth and is given the key to the pit
3. Star is on the earth opens the pit in the earth
4. out of the pit come smoke,
5. Smoke darkens the the air.

Now where do you see your point. Please point it out.

Well obviously if you put the pit "on Earth" then it leaves Satan "bound on Earth" in Rev 20 just as the OP says in Belief #27. And I don't think that looks like a "problem" for doctrine #27 as stated.

 

[BobRyan]

I just remembered something Ellen White Endorsed the Satan bound ON the earth for 1000 years theory. .

wow - - good memory.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Regardless of how far you suppose one can insert Satan in the ground -- you are leaving him "on Earth" even in your view with no access to humans.

No, he is not on the Earth, he is in the Earth in the pit.

No humans on the earth during the 1000 years...
Yesterday at 12:57 PM #142

Nothing but a "desolate Earth" left after the appearing of Christ


So that would mean "no living humans in the earth for 1000 years" no matter how much dirt one chooses say is piled on top of Satan at that time - it still leaves him on earth for 1000 years with no humans.

 

[BobRyan]

Even with a text extracted from its context the details still don't match. You emphasize the birds feasting, and your own text says there were no birds.

The text says of the birds "they had fled".

Your argument seems to claim that birds could not exist - feeding on corpses at the start of the 1000 years if there is ever a point where it can be said "they had fled".

If you are happy with that sort of argument I am fine for you to have it - as opposing what I have stated so far.

My objective is to provide the best most accurate contrast between our view and others for the objective unbiased readers.