chad kincham
Well-Known Member
Theres no such thing as a spiritual resurrection, because we never die - we are all eternal, which is why per 2 Corinthians 5 we leave our home, the body, and become present with Jesus, or go to the holding tank for the damned calledA couple of things here, 2 Timothy 2:16-18 Hymenaeus and Philetus were in error over their teaching that the resurrection had already happened. We know they couldn’t have been in error if they were teaching that Christ was already resurrected. If they were teaching about a future bodily resurrection then it would have been obvious they were incorrect unless they were referring to the bodily resurrection in Matthew 27:52-53 and calling it the final resurrection. I’m sure there are others here that are going to argue the teaching that was in error was about spiritual resurrection (meaning it was past and not an ongoing process)
That would only apply to those who think Nero was the beast. I tend to think the beast was prior to the cross and the 2nd beast (Revelation 13:11) is Satan transformed into an angel of light. The resurrection in Matthew 27:52-53 could be the one in Revelation 20:4-6.
I only think this is a possibility and that there are other interpretations that are also possible, so I’m not going to debate or try to convince anyone, just putting it out there.
I used to be Pre-millennialist but since then I've moved into the territory of "I really don't know the answer to the above three" (really don't know), so if someone who believes Christ's return is still future comments regarding my OP, then at least I may be able to get a view from an angle I never saw before.
There’s no way to actually read the whole bible through several times, and not be premillennial, because the scriptures unequivocally state that a future literal and unending reign of Jesus on the earth, will occur in the future.
The New Testament and Old Testament unequivocally prophesied Jesus’ literal unending kingdom on the earth, with Jesus ruling on the throne of David in Jerusalem.
In Acts 1, Jesus literally ascends bodily and visibly from Mount Olive, and the angel said this same Jesus will return in like manner as you have seen Him leave - meaning His literal return bodily and visibly back to Mount Olive.
Did Jesus really leave bodily and visibly on a cloud to ascend to heaven from mount Olive, or does the Amil advocate claim His ascension was not literal, either?
Because the angel said this same Jesus will return in like manner as you have seen Him leave:
Act 1:9And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.
Act 1:10And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes,
Act 1:11and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”
Act 1:12Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey away.
That means literally and visibly returning on a cloud, in the air, back to Mount Olive - which occurs in Zechariah 14:5.
And occurs in Revelation 1:7
Rev 1:7Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
And occurs in 1 Thessalonians 4:
1Th 4:17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
And Matthew 24:30:
Mat 24:30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
It is preposterous to claim He doesn’t literally and visibly return to earth on a cloud exactly as He left.
In Zechariah 14:5Jesus literally returns to Mount Olive with all the saints with Him - where He then remains, and the nations such as Egypt come into the gates of Jerusalem to worship Jesus, (Zechariah14:16-19) who will be literally and bodily sitting on the throne of David, forever.
Both the new and old testaments prophesied His earthly and unending kingdom:
Luk 1:32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the THRONE of his father David:
Luk 1:33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the GOVERNMENT shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7Of the increase of his GOVERNMENT and peace there shall be no end, upon the THRONE of David, and upon his KINGDOMS, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth evenFOREVER. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
1Ki 2:45And king Solomon shall beblessed, and the THRONE of David shall be established before the LORD FOREVER.
Jeremiah 23:5-6“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, that I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; a KING shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS”
In Revelation 21, The New Jerusalem which is above, descends to earth to old Jerusalem, and God and the lamb dwell in it with men forever, and Jesus says this about that city in Revelation 3:12:
Rev 3:12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
It’s Literal fact in scripture that there will be a unending literal and physical reign of Christ on the earth, and not just for a thousand years.
Jesus is currently sitting in heaven at the father’s right hand UNTIL the time is right to return to earth:
Psa 110:1A Psalm of David.The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”
Psa 110:2The LORD sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule IN THE MIDST of your enemies!
Note that Jesus will not rule His kingdom from heaven, but on the earth, in the midst of His enemies.
He will return and land on mount Olive with all His saints per Zechariah 14:5, given earlier, where He will rule and reign from Jerusalem on the throne of David, which is established forever:
1Ki 2:45And king Solomon shall be blessed, and the throne of David shall be established before the LORD for ever.
And we shall reign and rule with Jesus in His kingdom, on the earth:
Rev 5:10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
The millennium period isn’t a temporary reign of Jesus - it’s the period where Satan is bound for a thousand years at the beginning of His eternal reign on earth, so all of creation, including the angels, get to see the contrast between the world being ran by Satan as it’s god and ruler for 4,000 years, with all the resulting evil, compared with Jesus ruling the nations with a rod of Iron for a thousand years in peace - then Satan is loosed for short time, and thrown into the lake of fire.
Luk 1:32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Zephaniah also describes Jesus ruling on the earth in Jerusalem:
Zep 3:14Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel! Rejoice and exult with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Zep 3:15The LORD has taken away the judgments against you; he has cleared away your enemies. The King of Israel, the LORD, is in your midst; you shall never again fear evil.
Zep 3:16On that day it shall be said to Jerusalem: “Fear not, O Zion; let not your hands grow weak.
Zep 3:17The LORD your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing.
There is no reason whatsoever to deny that the thousand year reign of Jesus on the earth in Revelation 20is literal - from the OT to the NT, it is literal fact that He will return physically to earth and rule from the throne of David, on Mount Zion.
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