SDA Basic Belief 27: God Will Give the Earth to Satan’s Angels

[Adventist Dissident]

A New Heaven and a New Earth
(Revelation 21:1–8)

17For behold, I will create

new heavens and a new earth.f

The former things will not be remembered,

nor will they come to mind.18But be glad and rejoice forever

in what I create;

for I will create Jerusalem to be a joy

and its people to be a delight.19I will rejoice in Jerusalem

and take delight in My people.

The sounds of weeping and crying

will no longer be heard in her.20No longer will a nursing infant live but a few days,

or an old man fail to live out his years.

For the youth will die at a hundred years,

and he who fails to reach a hundred

will be considered accursed.21They will build houses and dwell in them;

they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.22No longer will they build houses for others to inhabit,

nor plant for others to eat.

For as is the lifetime of a tree,

so will be the days of My people,

and My chosen ones will fully enjoy

the work of their hands.23They will not labor in vain

or bear children doomed to disaster;

for they will be a people blessed by the LORD—

they and their descendants with them.24Even before they call, I will answer,

and while they are still speaking, I will hear.

25The wolf and the lamb will feed together,

and the lion will eat straw like the ox,

but the food of the serpentg will be dust.

They will neither harm nor destroy

on all My holy mountain,”

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Isaiah 66:17

A New Heaven and a New Earth
(Revelation 21:1–8)

17For behold, I will create

new heavens and a new earth.f

The former things will not be remembered,

nor will they come to mind.18But be glad and rejoice forever

in what I create;

for I will create Jerusalem to be a joy

and its people to be a delight.19I will rejoice in Jerusalem

and take delight in My people.

The sounds of weeping and crying

will no longer be heard in her.20No longer will a nursing infant live but a few days,

or an old man fail to live out his years.

For the youth will die at a hundred years,

and he who fails to reach a hundred

will be considered accursed.21They will build houses and dwell in them;

they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.22No longer will they build houses for others to inhabit,

nor plant for others to eat.

For as is the lifetime of a tree,

so will be the days of My people,

and My chosen ones will fully enjoy

the work of their hands.23They will not labor in vain

or bear children doomed to disaster;

for they will be a people blessed by the LORD—

they and their descendants with them.24Even before they call, I will answer,

and while they are still speaking, I will hear.

25The wolf and the lamb will feed together,

and the lion will eat straw like the ox,

but the food of the serpentg will be dust.

They will neither harm nor destroy

on all My holy mountain,”

 

[BobRyan]

Being on Earth with no humans, all the cities in ruins, the sky covered over, the geothermal activity keeping hills moving for 1000 years .. is a form of prison compared to Satan today on the kind of Earth we have at present. In Job 1 and 2 Satan does not at all appear to be "confined to earth" much less a "desolate earth" so confining him here with Earth in that sort of state would be a significant change and no humans to tempt.

And in Rev 20 the "change" is that billions of lost humans are brought back to life.

The term as used in Rev appears to imply that:

1. They do no harm to anyone while in the pit
2. The pit is for confining/trapping/holding
3. All the damage done in relation to it – is only done once the fallen angels are out of it.
4. The change in Rev 20 would be that earth itself is included in that term which is fitting since it is in a state of desolation and chaos - having no humans.

As we saw here: Nothing but a "desolate Earth" left after the appearing of Christ

Rev 9:1
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Rev 9:2
And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Rev 9:11
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Rev 11:7
And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Rev 20:1
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Rev 20:3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

================================================
The expression "bottomless pit" in Rev 20 represents the earth in a state of confusion and darkness as a holding place for evil angels

the initial condition of the earth "in the beginning the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." Genesis 1:2.

(The Hebrew word here translated "deep" is rendered in the septuagint LXX translation of the Hebrew old testament by the same word rendered "bottomless pit" in Revelation 20:1-3)

Jer 4: "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down." Jeremiah 4:23-26.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

The expression "bottomless pit" in Rev 20 represents the earth in a state of confusion and darkness as a holding place for evil angels

the initial condition of the earth "in the beginning the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." Genesis 1:2.

(The Hebrew word here translated "deep" is rendered in the septuagint LXX translation of the Hebrew old testament by the same word rendered "bottomless pit" in Revelation 20:1-3)

NO, this is wrong. the deep refers to the depth of the water not a state of confusion and darkness holding place for evil angels. "the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." Genesis 1:2." No evil angels mentioned there. that is SDA's reading into the text something that is not there.

 

[tall73]

The term as used in Rev appears to imply that:

1. They do no harm to anyone while in the pit
2. The pit is for confining/trapping/holding
3. All the damage done in relation to it – is only done once the fallen angels are out of it.
4. The change in Rev 20 would be that earth itself is included in that term which is fitting since it is in a state of desolation and chaos - having no humans.

Points one to three make sense from the texts. Point four seems to be simply your addition without warrant. If it was already a place of holding, and now they are put back in it, how does that include the earth?

Rev 9:1
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Rev 9:2
And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Rev 9:11
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Rev 11:7
And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Rev 20:1
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Rev 20:3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

================================================
The expression "bottomless pit" in Rev 20 represents the earth in a state of confusion and darkness as a holding place for evil angels

Except it doesn't say that. The meaning of the term is already established in the other texts in the book, and there it is not including the earth. The earth was not desolate in the earlier passages. If it was a place of holding before, and it is referenced as one now, why do you try to change the definition?

the initial condition of the earth "in the beginning the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." Genesis 1:2.

(The Hebrew word here translated "deep" is rendered in the septuagint LXX translation of the Hebrew old testament by the same word rendered "bottomless pit" in Revelation 20:1-3)

Yes, and deep is used to translate ocean, and a number of other things in the LXX, as I noted earlier.

But that is in fact a distraction from the text of Revelation where the pit of the abyss is defined already as a holding place, with a key, that wicked powers come out of when they do harm. And now in the passage we are looking at an evil power is bound in it. Then when it comes out again it does harm. There is no reason to re-interpret it.

Jer 4: "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down." Jeremiah 4:23-26.

You keep quoting that but you have not established that this is talking about the 1k years. In context it speaks of the judgment carried out on the nations, and Jerusalem, at the time of the exile. The destruction caused by the judgment of the Lord is seen as so thorough that the earth is reverted to its earlier form.

Jer 4:19 My anguish, my anguish! I writhe in pain! Oh the walls of my heart! My heart is beating wildly; I cannot keep silent, for I hear the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.
Jer 4:20 Crash follows hard on crash; the whole land is laid waste. Suddenly my tents are laid waste, my curtains in a moment.
Jer 4:21 How long must I see the standard and hear the sound of the trumpet?
Jer 4:22 “For my people are foolish; they know me not; they are stupid children; they have no understanding. They are ‘wise’—in doing evil! But how to do good they know not.”
Jer 4:23 I looked on the earth, and behold, it was without form and void; and to the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, and all the hills moved to and fro.
Jer 4:25 I looked, and behold, there was no man, and all the birds of the air had fled.
Jer 4:26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a desert, and all its cities were laid in ruins before the LORD, before his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus says the LORD, “The whole land shall be a desolation; yet I will not make a full end.
Jer 4:28 “For this the earth shall mourn, and the heavens above be dark; for I have spoken; I have purposed; I have not relented, nor will I turn back.”
Jer 4:29 At the noise of horseman and archer every city takes to flight; they enter thickets; they climb among rocks; all the cities are forsaken, and no man dwells in them.
Jer 4:30 And you, O desolate one, what do you mean that you dress in scarlet, that you adorn yourself with ornaments of gold, that you enlarge your eyes with paint? In vain you beautify yourself. Your lovers despise you; they seek your life.
Jer 4:31 For I heard a cry as of a woman in labor, anguish as of one giving birth to her first child, the cry of the daughter of Zion gasping for breath, stretching out her hands, “Woe is me! I am fainting before murderers.”

 

[BobRyan]

NO, this is wrong. the deep refers to the depth of the water

There is no "the deep" in Rev 20.

 

[BobRyan]

you have not proven that Satan is bound on earth and the or that the saint go to heaven.

We see that in this thread Saints are taken to heaven at the Rev 19 appearing of Christ

This is one of those times when I don't mind agreeing with actual evangelicals on the rapture and the fact that the saints are taken to heaven.

 

[BobRyan]

Points one to three make sense from the texts. Point four seems to be simply your addition without warrant.

Apparently we differ on that point.

If it was already a place of holding, and now they are put back in it, how does that include the earth?

Rev 20 does not say "put back in".

 

[Adventist Dissident]

There is no "the deep" in Rev 20.

um yes there is it refers to the pit, - it's depth. sorry try again.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

We see that in this thread Saints are taken to heaven at the Rev 19 appearing of Christ

This is one of those times when I don't mind agreeing with actual evangelicals on the rapture and the fact that the saints are taken to heaven.

Um......Where are the saints in heaven? point it out please

Heaven Exults over Babylon
19 After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! 2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” 3 Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!” 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!” 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, “Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small and great!”

6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’ ” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Christ on a White Horse
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

The Beast and His Armies Defeated
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Rev 20 does not say "put back in".

Um......yah it does

Rev. 20:1-3

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

So you are um.....Wrong!!!

1. Bound him....with a great chain
2. Cast him..... INTO......the bottomless pit
3. Shut him
4. sealed him
5. released him..... from..... the pit. sounds like Joseph being put in the pit. then released to the Ismealites. sound familuer?

 

[BobRyan]

Rev 20 does not say "put back in the bottomless pit"

BobRyan said: ↑
Rev 20 does not say "put back in".

Um......yah it does
Rev. 20:1-3
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Good example of a text that does not say "put back in" the bottomless pit. Thanks for reminding us again.

details matter

 

[BobRyan]

you have not proven that Satan is bound on earth and the or that the saint go to heaven.

We see that in this thread Saints are taken to heaven at the Rev 19 appearing of Christ

This is one of those times when I don't mind agreeing with actual evangelicals on the rapture and the fact that the saints are taken to heaven.

Um......Where are the saints in heaven? point it out please

See the thread at the link above with all the texts for the fact that at the rapture event saints are taken to heaven as John 14:1-3 points out .

 

[tall73]

Rev 20 does not say "put back in the bottomless pit"

Good example of a text that does not say "put back in" the bottomless pit. Thanks for reminding us again.

details matter

So lets go through each passage in Revelation, in order of appearance, and discuss the details. And then when we get to your text we will have an idea of what the details are saying:

Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key of the pit of the abyss.

A couple of details:

There is a pit of the abyss
It has a key

Rev 9:2 He opened the pit of the abyss and from the abyss rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft.
Rev 9:3 Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth.

Pit of the abyss is opened.
The smoke comes up out of the abyss.
Locusts come from the smoke

Rev 9:4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone.
Rev 9:6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them.
Rev 9:7 In appearance the locusts were like horses prepared for battle: on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces,
Rev 9:8 their hair like women's hair, and their teeth like lions' teeth;
Rev 9:9 they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle.
Rev 9:10 They have tails and stings like scorpions, and their power to hurt people for five months is in their tails.
Rev 9:11 They have as king over them the angel of the abyss. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.
Rev 9:12 The first woe has passed; behold, two woes are still to come.

There are people on the earth, and those who do not have the seal of God are tormented by the locusts.

The locusts are led by the angel of the abyss

The first three points you referenced all seem to apply here:

1. They do no harm to anyone while in the pit
2. The pit is for confining/trapping/holding
3. All the damage done in relation to it – is only done once the fallen angels are out of it.

We could add that it has a lock with a key.

Anything on this text you would like to point out?

It is clear that during this time the earth is not barren. So nothing about the term abyss as used in Revelation requires a barren earth.

 

[The Liturgist]

It is quite amazing SDA don't see this, because the Sabbath points to this. This is one reason to observe the Sabbath. It shows the sovereignty of God and the continuation of the Sabbath. Sabbath giveth and Sabbath taketh away.

Except the Sabbath is not God, but a creation.

 

[BobRyan]

We see that in this thread Saints are taken to heaven at the Rev 19 appearing of Christ

This is one of those times when I don't mind agreeing with actual evangelicals on the rapture and the fact that the saints are taken to heaven.

Nothing but a "desolate Earth" left after the appearing of Christ

between those to irrefutable points - there is only Satan left on this earth as the pit -- "and those who want him in the water while on earth do not change anything"

 

[BobRyan]

So lets go through each passage in Revelation, in order of appearance, and discuss the details. And then when we get to your text we will have an idea of what the details are saying:

Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key of the pit of the abyss.

A couple of details:

There is a pit of the abyss
It has a key

Rev 9:2 He opened the pit of the abyss and from the abyss rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft.
Rev 9:3 Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth.

Pit of the abyss is opened.
The smoke comes up out of the abyss.
Locusts come from the smoke

Rev 9:4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone.
Rev 9:6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them.
Rev 9:7 In appearance the locusts were like horses prepared for battle: on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces,
Rev 9:8 their hair like women's hair, and their teeth like lions' teeth;
Rev 9:9 they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle.
Rev 9:10 They have tails and stings like scorpions, and their power to hurt people for five months is in their tails.
Rev 9:11 They have as king over them the angel of the abyss. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.
Rev 9:12 The first woe has passed; behold, two woes are still to come.

There are people on the earth, and those who do not have the seal of God are tormented by the locusts.

Nothing in those texts puts muslims or the abyss anywhere but on Earth.

Jer 4 say no humans left on Earth - only ruined cities and dead bodies.
Rev 19 makes the same case "The rest were killed"

This Earth as a desolate pit - given these two points below.
Saints are taken to heaven at the Rev 19 appearing of Christ
Nothing but a "desolate Earth" left after the appearing of Christ

 

[BobRyan]

Except the Sabbath is not God, but a creation.

Agreed - no such thing as "the Sabbath giveth and the Sabbath taketh away"

 

[tall73]

Nothing in those texts puts muslims or the abyss anywhere but on Earth.

But it does tell us that the abyss is not equivalent to the entire earth. The smoke comes from the abyss. You noted earlier that those who are in it cannot harm until they come out of it, and that it is a place of confinement.

That smoke comes out of the abyss, from the pit, rising upwards. Then from it comes the locusts who go to torment people in the earth who do not have the seal.

Rev 9:2 He opened the pit of the abyss and from the abyss rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft.
Rev 9:3 Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth.
Rev 9:4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.Rev 9:4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

 

[tall73]

Jer 4 say no humans left on Earth - only ruined cities and dead bodies.
Rev 19 makes the same case "The rest were killed"

Whether there are people or not on the earth does not make the earth the abyss. The usage of abyss was already defined in Revelation and is not equivalent to the earth. Nor does Rev. 19 say anything about the earth being the abyss.

But as for Jeremiah 4 the context was pointed out to you and you didn't address it. You have not shown how it relates to the time period of Rev. 20. Why don't you start by explaining the below verses which do reference people being present, and empty cities due to flight.

Jer 4:29 At the noise of horseman and archer every city takes to flight; they enter thickets; they climb among rocks; all the cities are forsaken, and no man dwells in them.
Jer 4:30 And you, O desolate one, what do you mean that you dress in scarlet, that you adorn yourself with ornaments of gold, that you enlarge your eyes with paint? In vain you beautify yourself. Your lovers despise you; they seek your life.
Jer 4:31 For I heard a cry as of a woman in labor, anguish as of one giving birth to her first child, the cry of the daughter of Zion gasping for breath, stretching out her hands, “Woe is me! I am fainting before murderers.”