SDA Basic Belief 27: God Will Give the Earth to Satan’s Angels

[BobRyan]

Rod of Iron means "judgment without mercy" -- Jesus and the armies of heaven in Rev 19 destroying all the unsaved at the same time as He is rapturing all the saints to heaven.

No, it means a strict rule and rule means to take care of someone like a Shepherd does.

Nope. Look at Rev 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many crowns; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

There is no "kind shepherd taking care of the nations" there.

17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great feast of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, both free and slaves, and small and great.”

There is no "kind shepherd taking care of the nations" there.

21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

All mankind slain.. no one left to bury the dead. The birds consume the dead.

Rod of Iron -- judgment without mercy... all destroyed.

No text says a kind loving shepherd "rules the sheep with a rod of iron"

 

[BobRyan]

There are so many humans on the Earth that they are as the sands of the sea.

On the contrary

Rev 19
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great feast of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, both free and slaves, and small and great.”


21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

All mankind slain.. no one left to bury the dead. The birds consume the dead.

Rod of Iron -- judgment without mercy... all destroyed.

 

[BobRyan]

ewq1938 said: ↑
There are so many humans on the Earth that they are as the sands of the sea.

On the contrary


DESOLATE Earth during Millennium

Jer 4:
23 I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness;
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills jolted back and forth.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,
And all the birds of the sky had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were pulled down
Before the Lord, before His fierce anger.


Jer 4:I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void;
And to the heavens, and they had no light. (NASB 1955)

 

[ewq1938]

On the contrary

Rev 19
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great feast of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, both free and slaves, and small and great.”


21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

All mankind slain..

Nope, only that one army at that one location. Christ promises the nations will be ruled over using a future tense verse so that rule happens AFTER the slaying at Armageddon.

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

This proves there are nations of people still alive who could be deceived by satan so he is imprisoned to stop him from doing that. If all were dead, satan would have no one to deceive and this imprisonment would be unneeded. It also says he can only not deceive them until the thousand years are finished which means he will be allowed to deceive them again which is exactly what the text says he does:

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Nothing in the passage supports the SDA version of events. Only the leadership and army of the beast are destroyed. The civilians around the world are not killed and are not also at Armageddon.

 

[ewq1938]

There is no "kind shepherd taking care of the nations" there.

Yes, there is:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.


Rule:

G4165
ποιμαίνω
poimainō
poy-mah'ee-no
From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

G4165
ποιμαίνω
poimainō
Thayer Definition:
1) to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
1a) to rule, govern
1a1) of rulers
1a2) to furnish pasture for food
1a3) to nourish
1a4) to cherish one’s body, to serve the body
1a5) to supply the requisites for the soul’s need
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4166
Citing in TDNT: 6:485, 901

 

[ewq1938]

Neither is referring to the thousand years.

Jer 4:19 My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.
Jer 4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.
Jer 4:21 How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?
Jer 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
Jer 4:29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.
Jer 4:30 And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.
Jer 4:31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.

By isolating a handful of verses and not reading or presenting the entire passage in context, you have missed that there are many people mentioned. Some fleeing, some coming on horses, some with bows, people despising others and wanting to kill them.

On the contrary


DESOLATE Earth during Millennium

Jer 4:
23 I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness;
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills jolted back and forth.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,
And all the birds of the sky had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were pulled down
Before the Lord, before His fierce anger.


Jer 4:I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void;
And to the heavens, and they had no light. (NASB 1955)

 

[Adventist Dissident]

It is quite amazing SDA don't see this, because the Sabbath points to this. This is one reason to observe the Sabbath. It shows the sovereignty of God and the continuation of the Sabbath. Sabbath giveth and Sabbath taketh away.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Sabbath & the 1000 year regin on the earth

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Here’s a video on the millennium by Pastor Doug

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Here’s a video on the millennium by Pastor Doug

Did you even watch the video?


Devil's Dungeon @ @2:11 Wrong 1000 years is about Christ's rule on the earth. Isa 66:22.

Bottomless pit @2:30-34 Pit - Chained - Sealed

Decieves nation on the earth - @ 2:50 Satan Released from pit - decieves nations , which don't exist according to SDA Theology

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. Over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him a thousand years

— Revelation 20:4-6


He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years and threw him into the pit and locked and sealed it over him, so that he would deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be let out for a little while.

— Revelation 20:2-3

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Did you even watch the video?


Devil's Dungeon @ @2:11 Wrong 1000 years is about Christ's rule on the earth. Isa 66:22.

Bottomless pit @2:30-34 Pit - Chained - Sealed

Decieves nation on the earth - @ 2:50 Satan Released from pit - decieves nations , which don't exist according to SDA Theology

No, I have not watched that video, it was not the one I meant to post, I have updated it, but will watch the one I previously posted.

Isaiah 66:22 does not say Christ rules on earth for 1000. Jesus will wipe away all tears and the saints will be brought up to meet Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

No, I have not watched that video, it was not the one I meant to post, I have updated it, but will watch the one I previously posted.

Isaiah 66:22 does not say Christ rules on earth for 1000. Jesus will wipe away all tears and the saints will be brought up to meet Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

n you did not even look at the context

“For just as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, will endure before Me,” declares the LORD, “so your descendants and your name will endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come to worship before Me,” says the LORD. 24“As they go forth, they will see the corpses of the men who have rebelled against Me; for their worm will never die, their fire will never be quenched, and they will be a horror to all mankind.”…

 

[tall73]

If a desolate Earth with no humans on it is the bottomless pit prison

It is not clear that it is.

Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.
Rev 20:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.


"the Bottomless pit" translates τῆς ἀβύσσου

And this is not the first reference to the term in the book. The bottomless pit was present, and things came out of it onto the earth, during the trumpets.

Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit.

In this first instance you have the phrase, the pit of the abyss: τοῦ φρέατος τῆς ἀβύσσου.

Abyss is paired with the word for pit. And the rest of the passage shows this is not referring to the desolate earth:

Rev 9:2 He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft.
Rev 9:3 Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth.
Rev 9:4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone.
Rev 9:6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them.
Rev 9:7 In appearance the locusts were like horses prepared for battle: on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces,
Rev 9:8 their hair like women's hair, and their teeth like lions' teeth;
Rev 9:9 they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle.
Rev 9:10 They have tails and stings like scorpions, and their power to hurt people for five months is in their tails.
Rev 9:11 They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.
Rev 9:12 The first woe has passed; behold, two woes are still to come.

And:

Rev 11:7 And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them

Rev 17:7 But the angel said to me, “Why do you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her.
Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.

While the word is translated various ways in the NT and LXX, in the context of Revelation it is used of a place , a pit, associated with evil powers, that is in existence before the earth is desolate. This is likely parallel to the usage in Luke 8:

Luk 8:30 Jesus then asked him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” for many demons had entered him.
Luk 8:31 And they begged him not to command them to depart into the abyss.

Here the demons are aware of a holding place, the abyss, that they do not want to go to.

 

[BobRyan]

If a desolate Earth with no humans on it is the bottomless pit prison - then Satan is in it at the start of the 1000 years since Rev 19 destroys all the lost and 1 Thess 4:13-18 says all the saints are taken to heaven at that point.

It leaves nothing on Earth but the wreckage described in Jer 4.

It is not clear that it is.

Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.
Rev 20:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

Well being on Earth with no humans, all the cities in ruins, the sky covered over, the geothermal activity keeping hills moving for 1000 years .. is a form of prison compared to Satan today on the kind of Earth we have at present. In Job 1 and 2 Satan does not at all appear to be "confined to earth" much less a "desolate earth" so confining him here with Earth in that sort of state would be a significant change and no humans to tempt.

Desolate Earth:
Nothing but a "desolate Earth" left after the appearing of Christ

And in Rev 20 the "change" is that billions of lost humans are brought back to life.

 

[BobRyan]

n you did not even look at the context

“For just as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, will endure before Me,” declares the LORD, “so your descendants and your name will endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come to worship before Me,” says the LORD. 24“As they go forth, they will see the corpses of the men who have rebelled against Me; for their worm will never die, their fire will never be quenched, and they will be a horror to all mankind.”…

If you want to argue that in the New Earth all mankind is stepping over dead bodies for all eternity that is your choice you have free will.

What I see is that mankind in the New Earth is only exposed to the "ashes" of the wicked as the only form of "dead body".

Mal 4:
3 And you will crush the wicked underfoot, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I am preparing,” says the Lord of armies.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

here is the entire chapter, just in case you missed it I higlighted the part relevant to the earth.

Heaven Is My Throne

1This is what the LORD says:

“Heaven is My throne,

and earth is My footstool.
Gen 1:1
What kind of house will you build for Me?

Or where will My place of repose be?2Has not My hand made all these things?a

And so they came into being,”

declares the LORD.

“This is the one I will esteem:

he who is humble and contrite in spirit,

who trembles at My word.3Whoever slaughters an ox is like one who slays a man;

whoever sacrifices a lamb is like one who breaks a dog’s neck;

whoever presents a grain offering is like one who offers pig’s blood;

whoever offers frankincense is like one who blesses an idol.

Indeed, they have chosen their own ways

and delighted in their abominations.4So I will choose their punishment

and I will bring terror upon them,

because I called and no one answered,

I spoke and no one listened.

But they did evil in My sight

and chose that in which I did not delight.”5You who tremble at His word,

hear the word of the LORD:

“Your brothers who hate you

and exclude you because of My name

have said, ‘Let the LORD be glorified

that we may see your joy!’

But they will be put to shame.”6Hear the uproar from the city;

listen to the voice from the temple!

It is the voice of the LORD,

repaying His enemies what they deserve!7“Before she was in labor, she gave birth;

before she was in pain, she delivered a boy.8Who has heard of such as this?

Who has seen such things?

Can a country be born in a day

or a nation be delivered in an instant?

Yet as soon as Zion was in labor,

she gave birth to her children.9Shall I bring a baby to the point of birth and not deliver it?”

says the LORD.

“Or will I who deliver close the womb?”

says your God.10Be glad for Jerusalem and rejoice over her,

all who love her.

Rejoice greatly with her,

all who mourn over her,11so that you may nurse and be satisfied

at her comforting breasts;

you may drink deeply and delight yourselves

in her glorious abundance.12For this is what the LORD says:

“I will extend peace to her like a river,

and the wealth of nations like a flowing stream;

you will nurse and be carried on her arm,

and bounced upon her knees.13As a mother comforts her son,

so will I comfort you,

and you will be consoled over Jerusalem.”14When you see, you will rejoice,

and you will flourish like grass;

then the hand of the LORD will be revealed to His servants,

but His wrath will be shown to His enemies.15For behold, the LORD will come with fire—

His chariots are like a whirlwind—

to execute His anger with fury

and His rebuke with flames of fire.16For by fire and by His sword,

the LORD will execute judgment on all flesh,

and many will be slain by the LORD.17“Those who consecrate and purify themselves to enter the groves—to follow one in the center of those who eat the flesh of swine and vermin and rats—will perish together,” declares the LORD.18“And I, knowing their deeds and thoughts, am comingb to gather all nations and tongues, and they will come and see My glory.19I will establish a sign among them, and I will send survivors from among them to the nations—to Tarshish, Put, and the archers of Lud; to Tubal, Javan, and the islandsc far away who have not heard of My fame or seen My glory.

So they will proclaim My glory among the nations. 20And they will bring all your brothers from all the nations as a gift to the LORD on horses and chariots and wagons, on mules and camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,” says the LORD, “just as the Israelites bring an offering in a clean vessel to the house of the LORD.”21“And I will select some of them as priests and Levites,” says the LORD.22“For just as the new heavens and the new earth,d

which I will make, will endure before Me,”

declares the LORD,

“so your descendants and your name will endure.23From one New Moon to another

and from one Sabbath to another,

all mankind will come to worship before Me,”

says the LORD.

24“As they go forth, they will see the corpses

of the men who have rebelled against Me;

for their worm will never die,

their fire will never be quenched,e

and they will be a horror

to all mankind.”

Acts 7:49–50
18 b Literally And I, their deeds and their thoughts, am coming 
19 c Or coastlands 
22 d LXX the new heaven and the new earth ; see also Isaiah 65:17 and Revelation 21:1.
24 e Cited in Mark 9:48

 

[BobRyan]

here is the entire chapter, just in case you missed it ...

but His wrath will be shown to His enemies.15For behold, the LORD will come with fire—
His chariots are like a whirlwind—
to execute His anger with fury
and His rebuke with flames of fire.16For by fire and by His sword,
the LORD will execute judgment on all flesh,
and many will be slain by the LORD.17“Those who consecrate and purify themselves to enter the groves—to follow one in the center of those who eat the flesh of swine and vermin and rats—will perish together,” declares the LORD.

Clearly - not every verse in Is 66 applies to the New Earth

 

[tall73]

Well being on Earth with no humans, all the cities in ruins, the sky covered over, the geothermal activity keeping hills moving for 1000 years .. is a form of prison compared to Satan today on the kind of Earth we have at present.

Bob, that is a rationalization that ignores the texts above. Why don't you address the other instances of bottomless pit in the book?

Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit.
Rev 9:2 He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft.
Rev 9:3 Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth.
Rev 9:4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone.
Rev 9:6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them.
Rev 9:7 In appearance the locusts were like horses prepared for battle: on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces,
Rev 9:8 their hair like women's hair, and their teeth like lions' teeth;
Rev 9:9 they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle.
Rev 9:10 They have tails and stings like scorpions, and their power to hurt people for five months is in their tails.
Rev 9:11 They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.
Rev 9:12 The first woe has passed; behold, two woes are still to come.

And:

Rev 11:7 And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them

Rev 17:7 But the angel said to me, “Why do you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her.
Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.

While the word is translated various ways in the NT and LXX, in the context of Revelation it is used of a place , a pit, associated with evil powers, that is in existence before the earth is desolate. This is likely parallel to the usage in Luke 8:

Luk 8:30 Jesus then asked him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” for many demons had entered him.
Luk 8:31 And they begged him not to command them to depart into the abyss.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

n you did not even look at the context

“For just as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, will endure before Me,” declares the LORD, “so your descendants and your name will endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come to worship before Me,” says the LORD. 24“As they go forth, they will see the corpses of the men who have rebelled against Me; for their worm will never die, their fire will never be quenched, and they will be a horror to all mankind.”…

Lets not read into more than what I said, I did not look at the first video because I uploaded the wrong video.

This quote does not say Christ rules on earth for 1000 years. Worshipping the Lord on each Sabbath while we are walking over bones does not sound like heaven. We will meet up in the clouds 1 Thessalonians 4:17. John 14:2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Take care.