Premillennialism ignores the tenses in the original Greek in order to sustain its teaching

[power1]

Thankyou Power1.

Exactly , when he appears we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is.
1 John 3:2

When He appears to us.

Jesus comes in the glory of his Father and we are glorified accordingly in him.

We receive new bodies at the Rapture actually.

I want you to notice what Paul teaches in his second letter to the Thessalonians regarding the Lords appearing and our Glorification. Paul includes himself in this process... highlighted in red.,


5 This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you indeed are suffering. 6 For after all it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified among His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—because our testimony to you was believed. 11 To this end also we pray for you always, that our God will consider you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire for goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 so that the name of our Lord Jesus will be glorified in you, and you in Him, in accordance with the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

So who is afflicted at that time? The saints that got saved since the Rapture of the Bride. They get relief. We all really get relief when He takes over! I would be relived as a saint returning with Jesus when He comes back! So the people needing actual relief on earth at that time are not us who were taken up in the air long before this.

Paul also takes part in this glorious event associated with his appearing....and look what happens to the unGodly on that day .

Right he is, the wicked get clobbered in that day!

 

[Timtofly]

He implies that in the strongest possible language.

2Tim 4

I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:
2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
5 But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry
6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith;
8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.


I understand the above verses to be saying that the Lord will judge the living and the dead when he appears.
When he appears the righteous , whether living or dead , are rewarded with a glorious crown.
As for the unrighteous living and dead, they will have to give account for their rejection of God and his saving Gospel....,


1Pet 4
4 In all this, they are surprised that you do not run with them into the same excesses of dissipation, and they malign you; 5 but they will give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

6 For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.
7 The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. 8 Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. 9 Be hospitable to one another without complaint.



They are seen to give an account in Matt 25, when the Lord comes in Glory to take his seat in judgment. Doesnt end well for them.
He throws them into the place of eternal punishment prepared for the devil and his angels.


We are solemnly charged to testify to the world this fact.....that Jesus is coming to take his seat as judge of the living and the dead when he appears.

The judge is already standing at the door ready yes, according to James.

God has indeed fixed a day, an hour, when he will judge the world in righteousness through the Lord Jesus Christ whom he raised from the dead.

Matt 16
Jesus said...,
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds.

Every man whether living or dead will be repayed when he comes.

Are the lost people living today dead? When did they become the living? How do you distinguish from these verses the redeemed and unredeemed? Are those in sheol physically dead also the living to be judged? Because the living living are in Paradise and will not be judged, the dead dead in sheol will not be judged, until a resurrection. That only leaves the living living and the living dead, but who is really into the details here? You assume a resurrection, when no resurrection is named. The only facts we have is an appearing and the living and the dead. If the living are caught up at the appearing, which is an added thought, then does that mean all humans alive will be caught up, and all the physically dead left to judge?

At what point do we reach an agreement that this verse is only talking about souls still on earth in physical bodies? Some of those souls are redeemed, some are lost, but all are physically breathing at the appearing?

Are the living (redeemed) judged or caught up?

Are the dead (unredeemed) judged or caught up?

Why teach a rapture at the appearing if you think no one, even if redeemed, can meet the Lord in the air? So only those already in Heaven meet the Lord in the air, but those on earth who are redeemed have to wait their turn to be judged to figure out if they are righteous or not?

 

[jeffweedaman]

When He appears to us.

Jesus is coming in vengeance when he appears a second time,.... to eternally separate those who rejected the Gospel and to glorify all who have believed the Gospel testimony.



5 This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you indeed are suffering. 6 For after all it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

9 These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified among His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—because our testimony to you was believed.


Eternal destruction of the ungodly Gospel rejecters happens Happens on the day of the glorification of all who did believe the Gospel...Paul included.

 

[sovereigngrace]

For the third or fourth time, the Rapture must be before the wrath since we are not going through that

That is not addressing the issue. You are ducking around it, once again. That is obviously why you have had to run to Google to find a sympathy website to try to help you out. We all agree that the elect will be rescued before the wrath of God is poured out. Where we disagree is that the wrath of God = some 7-year tribulation. You have not proved that because it doesn't exist. It is a Pretrib fabrication.

 

[Timtofly]

In the past I have entertained that the thousand years might be part of the DOTL. Personally, I take the thousand years to involve a literal thousand years, no more, no less.

This presents a problem once satan is loosed. It would then no longer be the thousand years, thus it would no longer be the day of the Lord, assuming this scenario. 2 Peter 3 indicates that the heavens and earth pass away during the day of the Lord, not post that day.

In order to agree with 2 Peter 3, even if the thousand years are part of the day of the Lord, the heavens and earth have to pass away at the beginning of it since at the end of the thousand years it would no longer be the day of the Lord at that point. It would be satan's little season instead.

Of course they pass away by fire just like they did by water. Or did you not see that Peter was comparing the two events?

"Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment."

Did not Peter point out the heavens and earth before the Flood perished, that is passed away by water? Are not the present heavens different from the former, and they will be different after the fire just like after the water, at the Second Coming. Jesus brings the fire according to the Olivet Discourse. That is the only sign of the Second Coming, even according to Peter.

The day of the Lord does come as a thief. It does not leave as a thief, but it is still 1000 years in length, just like Peter pointed out.

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

The earth will be destroyed and pass away in the similar condition as Noah's Flood. And all humanity will be saved physically, because God will bring them through it, but the works will be burned up. It is interesting that many think all will be dead, but technology will survive to broadcast the event to the whole world. Peter and Scripture claim just the opposite. All the works of man will be destroyed, yet humans will remain alive at least for a 42 month period post the Second Coming. We know from Daniel that God can preserve humans even in a fire that would normally kill them. Even in Revelation we see that many will beg to die, but cannot. So the words of Jesus:

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

Jesus assures us heaven and earth will pass away at the Second Coming, but will be made new, because the fire removes the wickedness found on the earth. But the restoration will not be immediate. It was not immediate after the Flood, but definitely not a full 7 years, and definitely not even a few seconds. The 1000 years will happen on schedule, and all that Revelation claims will still happen, although skipping the 42 months would be preferable.

 

[Timtofly]

But the day of the Lord is marked by the sudden comprehensive wholesale destruction of the wicked and of fallen creation. There are no mortals left to overrun your future millennium as the sand of the sea.

Whatever way you look at it, and if you are going to be consistent (which Premil is not), then you would have to concede your day of the Lord (however long) is an unfolding fiery destruction.

What is inconsistent that to reign on earth one has to come to earth first? What is consistent about Christ coming to earth as Prince, and then never actually reigns on earth?

 

[power1]

Jesus is coming in vengeance when he appears a second time,.... to eternally separate those who rejected the Gospel and to glorify all who have believed the Gospel testimony.

Correct.

9 These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified among His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—because our testimony to you was believed.


Eternal destruction of the ungodly Gospel rejecters happens Happens on the day of the glorification of all who did believe the Gospel...Paul included.

That does not include all people that ever lived when He returns of course.

 

[power1]

That is not addressing the issue. You are ducking around it, once again. That is obviously why you have had to run to Google to find a sympathy website to try to help you out. We all agree that the elect will be rescued before the wrath of God is poured out. Where we disagree is that the wrath of God = some 7-year tribulation. You have not proved that because it doesn't exist. It is a Pretrib fabrication.

It is the heart of the matter. Either the Tribulation is wrath and we do not go through wrath or not.

 

[DavidPT]

The day of the Lord does come as a thief. It does not leave as a thief, but it is still 1000 years in length, just like Peter pointed out.

That for sure would be true, regardless the length of day of the Lord, that it doesn't also leave like a thief in the night. But even so, the heaven and earth still have to pass away during the day of the Lord.

If the day of the Lord equals the thousand years, we have to keep in mind that the thousand years have an end. Once the thousand years end so would the day of the Lord end, assuming this scenario. It would then be satan's little season followed by the great white throne judgment. If the heaven and earth pass away after satan's little season just prior to the beginning of the great white throne judgment, or if it passes away after the time of the great white throne judgment, either way it still doesn't pass away during the day of the Lord, thus contradicting 2 Peter 3, assuming this scenario.

 

[DavidPT]

It is the heart of the matter. Either the Tribulation is wrath and we do not go through wrath or not.

The trib involves wrath, not God's wrath, satan's wrath. After all, doesn't Revelation 12 indicate that satan is come down to the earth having great wrath?

 

[Timtofly]

Hmm, you are also including those who believe in Jesus during the 4 gospels?

So those who from Israel who believe that Jesus was the Christ, for example Martha in John 11:27, you also consider her as part of the Body of Christ?

I would, because she physically died after the Cross, and would have accepted the Atonement.

John the Baptist would have been raised at the Cross, and became a firstfruits in Christ along with every single church member congregating in Abraham's bosom.

Even the thief was part of the church even though he technically was the first to make a profession prior to the Cross, but reaped the benefit a few hours later upon physical death. Ironically, the OT did not reach Paradise until Sunday morning.

I am not really clear on why some separate the OT from the NT, as long as they accept Abraham's bosom was a literal place and the firstfruits of the Cross. Some seem pretty sure they think only Jesus entered Paradise physically that week. But Paul stressed the order, and Paul listed the firstfruits as part of that order. If no redeemed entered Paradise in 30AD, why would Paul think and write that down in 1 Corinthians 15? How people are accepted into the church is not really the point. When they were physically changed is the point. The Resurrection is an ongoing phenomenon. Jesus was the Resurrection and the Life when Lazarus was called out of the Tomb. Jesus never claimed, "One day I will be the Resurrection and the Life". Jesus said, "I am the Resurrection and the Life". Why would that be true at only certain points in history? Some claim He was only the spiritual resurrection, and later the physical resurrection. That is definitely not the case, not in the first century, nor in the future. What the Cross allowed was the spiritual birth, and a physical resurrection, to those physically alive. Many conflate the spiritual birth and spiritual resurrection. Yet to get from a spiritual birth to a spiritual resurrection, one must become spiritually dead. What Scripture teaches a different order? How can one experience a resurrection, then a birth, and then a death? Or a death, then a resurrection, and then a birth?

A church member is a church member, because they had a physical birth, a spiritual birth, then a physical death which is also a physical resurrection. No spiritual death and resurrection necessary. All Jesus said was ye must be born again. Jesus never claimed one had to die again, nor even be resurrected again. That is the difference between the OT and NT. They did have to taste death in the OT. After the Cross, no one had to taste death ever again, so the physical death is the same moment as the physical resurrection. There are no more steps after that, except the actual robe of white experience, when the spirit is put on over the physical body.

 

[Guojing]

I would, because she physically died after the Cross, and would have accepted the Atonement.

John the Baptist would have been raised at the Cross, and became a firstfruits in Christ along with every single church member congregating in Abraham's bosom.

Even the thief was part of the church even though he technically was the first to make a profession prior to the Cross, but reaped the benefit a few hours later upon physical death. Ironically, the OT did not reach Paradise until Sunday morning.

I am not really clear on why some separate the OT from the NT, as long as they accept Abraham's bosom was a literal place and the firstfruits of the Cross. Some seem pretty sure they think only Jesus entered Paradise physically that week. But Paul stressed the order, and Paul listed the firstfruits as part of that order. If no redeemed entered Paradise in 30AD, why would Paul think and write that down in 1 Corinthians 15? How people are accepted into the church is not really the point. When they were physically changed is the point. The Resurrection is an ongoing phenomenon. Jesus was the Resurrection and the Life when Lazarus was called out of the Tomb. Jesus never claimed, "One day I will be the Resurrection and the Life". Jesus said, "I am the Resurrection and the Life". Why would that be true at only certain points in history? Some claim He was only the spiritual resurrection, and later the physical resurrection. That is definitely not the case, not in the first century, nor in the future. What the Cross allowed was the spiritual birth, and a physical resurrection, to those physically alive. Many conflate the spiritual birth and spiritual resurrection. Yet to get from a spiritual birth to a spiritual resurrection, one must become spiritually dead. What Scripture teaches a different order? How can one experience a resurrection, then a birth, and then a death? Or a death, then a resurrection, and then a birth?

A church member is a church member, because they had a physical birth, a spiritual birth, then a physical death which is also a physical resurrection. No spiritual death and resurrection necessary. All Jesus said was ye must be born again. Jesus never claimed one had to die again, nor even be resurrected again. That is the difference between the OT and NT. They did have to taste death in the OT. After the Cross, no one had to taste death ever again, so the physical death is the same moment as the physical resurrection. There are no more steps after that, except the actual robe of white experience, when the spirit is put on over the physical body.

To be in the Body of Christ, one have to believe in the gospel found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

When you claim that she "would have accepted the Atonement", are you claiming she believe that Christ died for her sins and rose again on the 3rd day for her justification?

 

[DavidPT]

OK, great. So the season is after the 1000 years. I think the poster imagines those years are not real and some sort of fantasy time or whatever.

I'm pretty sure he thinks it involves real years. Even the thousand years involve real years to him, just not a literal thousand years. Amils typically have the thousand years beginning at the cross. Apparently, we are still in that same thousand year period, assuming Amil. Which means it has been involving real years, close to 2000 years thus far. Still assuming Amil, once the thousand years expire, thus satan's little season begins, that involves real years since it would mean until the 2nd coming happens in the end of this age.

Still assuming Amil, once Christ returns, everything is fulfilled within 24 hours or less. Which I find ludicrous myself, that Christ only sits upon His throne of glory for 24 hours or less, and that He doesn't even do it on the earth. There is no habitable earth for Him to begin reigning on. Amils have it literally engulfed in fire once Christ returns.

 

[jeffweedaman]

Correct.



That does not include all people that ever lived when He returns of course.

It does Brother.
God has fixed a day...one day.., when he will take his seat to judge , not only the living but also the dead.

Act 17
30 So having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now proclaiming to mankind that all people everywhere are to repent, 31 because He has set a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all people by raising Him from the dead.”



The GWT is that fixed day and all the dead and the living are in attendance....

On that day eternal judgment will be executed and the result is the glorification of his redeemed with the opening and revealing of those in the book of life at the GWT , and the eternal destruction and separation of those who reject his saving Gospel into the judgment prepared for the devil and his angels.

Rev 20
2thess 1
Matt 25

 

[sovereigngrace]

It is the heart of the matter. Either the Tribulation is wrath and we do not go through wrath or not.

The tribulation is the wrath of Satan/antichrist against the redeemed and has been ongoing for centuries. The wrath of God is poured out on the wicked and is totally destructive when Jesus comes and cannot be escaped.

 

[DavidPT]

So, why do you have the sheep inheriting a temporary, earthly millennial kingdom at that time instead of the "eternal life" that Jesus said the sheep will inherit at that time? And, it couldn't be more obvious that Matthew 25:41 is speaking of the same thing as Revelation 20:15 which means the goats are clearly those whose names are not written in the book of life. And they are not cast into the fire until AFTER the thousand years (and Satan's little season). So, no matter how "crystal clear" you think it is, it's crystal clear to me that you're interpreting it wrongly.

If there is a thousand years after the 2nd coming, that is not a temporary kingdom. It would simply be the first thousand years of the everlasting kingdom. The kingdom is never temporary, it is always everlasting and has been everlasting from day 1 when the Father initially gave it to Jesus 2000 years ago. It just hasn't physically come into being yet. That involves the 2nd coming happening first.

I have debated JWs a time or two in the past, in regards to whether or not Jesus is God. I seem to recall one of them also telling me that it is clear to them that I was interpreting it wrongly. The point being, so what if it is crystal clear to you that I'm allegedly interpreting it wrongly, it was also apparently crystal clear to the JW that I was interpreting wrongly that Jesus is God, yet that didn't even remotely make me the one wrong and the JW right, just because it was clear to him that I was interpreting those things wrong.

I only used this example in order to try and make my point. I just wanted to use an example we both can relate to, that even you would have to agree that just because it was clear to the JW that I was interpreting those things wrong, that didn't automatically make me wrong and him right then.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I'm pretty sure he thinks it involves real years. Even the thousand years involve real years to him, just not a literal thousand years. Amils typically have the thousand years beginning at the cross. Apparently, we are still in that same thousand year period, assuming Amil. Which means it has been involving real years, close to 2000 years thus far. Still assuming Amil, once the thousand years expire, thus satan's little season begins, that involves real years since it would mean until the 2nd coming happens in the end of this age.

Still assuming Amil, once Christ returns, everything is fulfilled within 24 hours or less. Which I find ludicrous myself, that Christ only sits upon His throne of glory for 24 hours or less, and that He doesn't even do it on the earth. There is no habitable earth for Him to begin reigning on. Amils have it literally engulfed in fire once Christ returns.

You know that Amils believe He is reigning now and will do eternally. He is simply going to "shepherd" mankind at the end. That is what the word "rule" means. Jesus judges the living and the dead when He comes. Scripture knows nothing of resurrection days or judgment days. That is a Premil innovation.

 

[DavidPT]

The tribulation is the wrath of Satan/antichrist against the redeemed and has been ongoing for centuries. The wrath of God is poured out on the wicked and is totally destructive when Jesus comes and cannot be escaped.

What about the last vials of wrath? Is not that the wrath of God? Don't some of you have the vials of wrath already being poured out before Christ even returns? How does it make sense that if the sudden destruction that one can't escape, that it occurs once the 2nd coming occurs, but in the meantime they have been being bombarded with the vials of wrath, which then makes nonsense out of them saying peace and safety at the time, which is what they are saying when sudden destruction comes upon them? No one in their right mind could be saying peace and safety if they have been being bombarded with the vials of wrath.

 

[Timtofly]

Do you think entire nations will inherit "eternal life" in the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world? If so, where does scripture teach that concept? I see it taught often regarding individuals, but not nations.

Do you think entire nations will be cast into "everlasting fire" to experience "everlasting punishment" in the place prepared for the devil and his angels? if so, where does scripture teach that concept? I see it taught regarding individuals, but not nations.

You need to start looking at Hebrew and Greek resources that show all the definitions of the Hebrew and Greeks words that were translated into English. In this case "nations" is translated from the Greek word "ethnos" which can also mean "heathen", "people" or "Gentiles". Clearly, there will be no judgment of nations that results in either eternal life or eternal punishment. That is only for individuals. So, the better translation of "ethnos" in this case would've been "people" instead of nations because it has to do with all people being separated into two groups which are figuratively represented by sheep and goats in Matthew 25:31-46.

The point is they were alive at the Second Coming. Where is a resurrection in these verses? What Scripture claims ethnos or peoples are found in sheol? I understood the point is that the Nations, meaning all the people alive on earth were brought before this judgment.

I disagree. I think the sheep and goats were Israel being called back to Israel. Not all ethnic groups. The 12 tribes were being called out of the Nations, all Nations, not just Israel. This judgment is described in Revelation with the 6 Trumpets. The Nations as a whole are the Thunders. Still not your GWT, all by itself. If the word Nation is involved, they are still alive and still represent all the earth. If they are dead, then they would already be written as the dead, not Nations. There is no nationality in sheol, like no ethnicity in the Body of Christ.

The GWT is after heaven and earth fled away, not after heaven and earth passed away. Passed away only happened by water in Noah's day, and by fire at the Second Coming.

So yes, heaven and earth passed away at the Second Coming. Then the time of greatest tribulation ever, it is the final harvest of Adam's flesh and blood. It is supposed to be painful. Then 1000 years, then Satan's deception, and fire then consumes people, not heaven and earth. Then only the GWT can be seen by the dead. Only the dead see the GWT. The living passed on into the NHNE, like nothing happened. They were the Blessed that could not be touched by the second death. Why would they even be summoned, if not guilty? Remember that day of judgment when God judged the whole world on the Cross? All those who accept that judgment will not stand at the GWT.

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power."

They are not dead, nor the dead.

 

[sovereigngrace]

What about the last vials of wrath? Is not that the wrath of God? Don't some of you have the vials of wrath already being poured out before Christ even returns? How does it make sense that if the sudden destruction that one can't escape, that it occurs once the 2nd coming occurs, but in the meantime they have been being bombarded with the vials of wrath, which then makes nonsense out of them saying peace and safety at the time, which is what they are saying when sudden destruction comes upon them? No one in their right mind could be saying peace and safety if they have been being bombarded with the vials of wrath.

The wrath of God is always upon the wicked (and all wickedness). It is never upon the righteous. If there is a post-second coming seven-year great tribulation, as commonly described by Pretribbers, then the wrath of God is undoubtedly upon the righteous tribulation saints.

Pretribulationists get confused in that they relate the wrath of God, which will be poured out on the day of His wrath (the second coming), to a supposed end-time seven-year tribulation period. Posttribulationists, on the other hand, believe that the wrath of God is continually upon the wicked but that the Church will escape the final “day of his wrath” at the appearing of Christ at the Second coming (after the Church has been rescued).

That is not a reality that is restricted to a supposed end-time period prior to the second coming of the Lord but has been an ongoing reality from the beginning. Nahum 1:2 says, “God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.”

Colossians 3:6 says, “the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience.”

Ephesians 5:5-6 says, “For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.”

John the Baptist said in John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

Romans 5:9-10 says, “being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.”

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 says, “For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”

As Paul says in Romans 1:18, “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against ALL ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.”

God will therefore recompense the deeds of the wicked on that final day when true, just and holy justice will be finally realized.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 says, “God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Q. How can the wrath of God be upon the righteous tribulation Jews or tribulation saints when Scripture clearly says it isn’t?