Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

[rturner76]

Death will handle that.

This is similar to the situation of the Israelites freed from Egyptian bondage. The generation that had been raised from childhood to adulthood in Egypt never cast off the bondage. It was necessary for that generation to die off before the nation could enter the Promised Land.

Where would you put Gen X'ers on that timetable? I've dealt with a ton of racist garbage.

I keep saying that the Boomer generation will simply have to die off.

I've never disagreed with that

People after the Boomer generation do not understand the depth of difference between Boomers (as a cohort) and their children's cohort. You young people do not understand the social thoroughness of America's apartheid system and incredible difference that was wrought when it was removed (a process that took about 30 years.

I'm saying that because of the social thoroughness of America's apartheid system, we are still behind on race relations. I do believe that people born now will not have had the same experience I had, Hopefully anyway.

But, indeed, "We have the best white people now that we've ever had," and it's a lie to insist otherwise.

I never insisted otherwise. I have even said it's better now than it was. I just think there is an element that makes things harder for some people.

 

[Ken-1122]

I advise you to do the same.

I'm not the one claiming it exist, that would be you.

I have given plenty of examples you just dismiss them off hand.

No, you haven't given me any examples. I would ask you to point to the post # you supposedly gave me said example, but I know you wouldn't point it out because you know it doesn't exist. You just make the empty claim that I ignore your evidence.

I say read more because there is more to learn about the subject than what's in news articles.

No, you say read more because that is a very common tactic. read more, learn more about the topic, educate yourself and you will agree with me, those are very common tactics from the defeated debater after seeing his argument reduced to rubble. What you're doing is nothing new.

 

[RDKirk]

Where would you put Gen X'ers on that timetable? I've dealt with a ton of racist garbage.

I've never disagreed with that

I'm saying that because of the social thoroughness of America's apartheid system, we are still behind on race relations. I do believe that people born now will not have had the same experience I had, Hopefully anyway.

I never insisted otherwise. I have even said it's better now than it was. I just think there is an element that makes things harder for some people.

What you're not getting--and I'm not surprised--is the profound effect of this:

You young people do not understand the social thoroughness of America's apartheid system and incredible difference that was wrought when it was removed

You think you've met racist X-genners.

You did not experience a world in which any given white person (not just the police) could kill a black person or rape a black girl or woman, and suffer no social or legal consequences...and all that being in such a world entailed.

 

[rturner76]

No, you haven't given me any examples. I would ask you to point to the post # you supposedly gave me said example, but I know you wouldn't point it out because you know it doesn't exist. You just make the empty claim that I ignore your evidence.

I gave the example of the criminal justice system. This should get you started.
SOmewhere back there I said take a look at the legal system. Worse outcomes for minorities even when it's been the same crime, same record. Report to the United Nations on Racial Disparities in the U.S. Criminal Justice System - The Sentencing Project

No, you say read more because that is a very common tactic. read more, learn more about the topic, educate yourself and you will agree with me, those are very common tactics from the defeated debater after seeing his argument reduced to rubble. What you're doing is nothing new.

Dude, I'm not trying to debate you, I'm trying to teach you.

 

[rturner76]

You think you've met racist X-genners.

You did not experience a world in which any given white person (not just the police) could kill a black person or rape a black girl or woman, and suffer no social or legal consequences...and all that being in such a world entailed.

I have experienced the kind of racism that gets a woman cut off from her family for being with a black man. But no, I haven't experienced where a couldn't look a white man in the eye like my dad. And when I was young a group of skinheads terrorized the neighborhood. Stuff like that. Humiliating run-ins with police etc.

 

[RDKirk]

I have experienced the kind of racism that gets a woman cut off from her family for being with a black man. But no, I haven't experienced where a couldn't look a white man in the eye like my dad. And when I was young a group of skinheads terrorized the neighborhood. Stuff like that. Humiliating run-ins with police etc.

Think for a moment about the 1961 Freedom Riders' bus reaching Birmingham where the police had made a deal with murderous white attackers (not the Klan, not an organization...just white men off the street) to give them "fifteen minutes to do whatever you want to do." Think for a moment about what kind of societal atmosphere must exist for something like that to happen--that people could killed, were expected to be killed--and the police had agreed to look the other way. And don't think that was a unique perversion. That was the pervasive atmosphere.

And remember that those people are still alive--the people on the bus and the people who attacked them without mercy or constraint. We're still here. Not even the X-Gen, as a cohort, are truly like Boomers. We are like Autobots and Decepticons continuing to fight a war from before your time.

You have to look at us and just realize that we're going to be what we are until we die. Create systems with fair procedures. Don't try to design your world to accommodate our derangement.

 

[rturner76]

Think for a moment about the 1961 Freedom Riders' bus reaching Birmingham where the police had made a deal with murderous white attackers (not the Klan, not an organization...just white men off the street) to give them "fifteen minutes to do whatever you want to do." Think for a moment about what kind of societal atmosphere must exist for something like that to happen--that people could killed, were expected to be killed--and the police had agreed to look the other way. And don't think that was a unique perversion. That was the pervasive atmosphere.

And remember that those people are still alive--the people on the bus and the people who attacked them without mercy or constraint. We're still here. Not even the X-Gen, as a cohort, are truly like Boomers. We are like Autobots and Decepticons continuing to fight a war from before your time.

You have to look at us and just realize that we're going to be what we are until we die. Create systems with fair procedures. Don't try to design your world to accommodate our derangement.

Yeah, that was harsh. I never experienced anything like that. It's not only that Boomers are still alive, by now many are in very high positions in government and industry.

 

[Ken-1122]

I gave the example of the criminal justice system. This should get you started.
SOmewhere back there I said take a look at the legal system. Worse outcomes for minorities even when it's been the same crime, same record. Report to the United Nations on Racial Disparities in the U.S. Criminal Justice System - The Sentencing Project

You site an advocacy group like The Sentencing Project? Even if we assume this advocacy group is unbiased, it still doesn’t claim systemic racism is the cause for the racial disparities in the criminal justice system; it sites urban poverty as a contributing factor, points out people with money can afford better justice, and black people have less money.

Dude, I'm not trying to debate you, I'm trying to teach you.

Perhaps that’s your problem. How about if you focus on listening to what I say, and refute what I say when I say something you disagree with; that way we can both learn from each other. Deal?

 

[RDKirk]

Yeah, that was harsh. I never experienced anything like that. It's not only that Boomers are still alive, by now many are in very high positions in government and industry.

They will be dead soon.

 

[Astrid]

Where would you put Gen X'ers on that timetable? I've dealt with a ton of racist garbage.

I've never disagreed with that

I'm saying that because of the social thoroughness of America's apartheid system, we are still behind on race relations. I do believe that people born now will not have had the same experience I had, Hopefully anyway.

I never insisted otherwise. I have even said it's better now than it was. I just think there is an element that makes things harder for some people.

Wait, Americas apartheid system?

 

[RDKirk]

Wait, Americas apartheid system?

Yes.

 

[Astrid]

Yes.

Weird. Never heard of it.

 

[RDKirk]

Weird. Never heard of it.

 

[Astrid]

Oh, that. I thought you meant the present

Oh, that. Not the present

 

[rturner76]

You site an advocacy group like The Sentencing Project? Even if we assume this advocacy group is unbiased, it still doesn’t claim systemic racism is the cause for the racial disparities in the criminal justice system; it sites urban poverty as a contributing factor, points out people with money can afford better justice, and black people have less money.

It said a lot more than that but thank you for taking the time to read.

 

[Ken-1122]

It said a lot more than that but thank you for taking the time to read.

Yes it did say a lot more; I was just saying it did not make the case that systemic racism is the cause of the disparities.

 

[LockeeDeck]

Hofeller Files - Stephanie's Copy

Justice Department sues Texas over new redistricting maps | AP News

Opinion | Poverty as a Proxy for Race in Voter Suppression

Why Do Nonwhite Georgia Voters Have To Wait In Line For Hours? Too Few Polling Places

You want systemic racism, then here you go. Republicans have been known to gerrymander in ways to suppress nonwhite votes as they know they are not popular with nonwhites. Combine that with policies that make it disproportionately harder for poorer people to vote and reducing polling stations in nonwhite areas so the waiting times for voting is super long and you get targeted and systematic voter suppression of nonwhite people.

 

[RDKirk]

Hofeller Files - Stephanie's Copy

Justice Department sues Texas over new redistricting maps | AP News

Opinion | Poverty as a Proxy for Race in Voter Suppression

Why Do Nonwhite Georgia Voters Have To Wait In Line For Hours? Too Few Polling Places

You want systemic racism, then here you go. Republicans have been known to gerrymander in ways to suppress nonwhite votes as they know they are not popular with nonwhites. Combine that with policies that make it disproportionately harder for poorer people to vote and reducing polling stations in nonwhite areas so the waiting times for voting is super long and you get targeted and systematic voter suppression of nonwhite people.

That is an example of systemic racism. Also, in many counties (Democratic as well as Republican) school zones are gerrymandered just as horrendously to make sure school tax zones keep high-value properties in separate districts from low-value properties.

 

[LockeeDeck]

That is an example of systemic racism. Also, in many counties (Democratic as well as Republican) school zones are gerrymandered just as horrendously to make sure school tax zones keep high-value properties in separate districts from low-value properties.

My local example of that is a rich enclave breaking off to form their own tiny town with their own schools and yes that also counts. School board meeting with proposals to bus students to rich schools get really racist really fast.

 

[Astrid]

My local example of that is a rich enclave breaking off to form their own tiny town with their own schools and yes that also counts. School board meeting with proposals to bus students to rich schools get really racist really fast.

Call it what suits, its what i would do.