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Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

IWalkAlone

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You will only accept definitions based on your inaccurate definition of what systemic racism is
My definition is the one in the dictionary. But that is irrelevant. You haven't shown systemic racism in definition or practice. You claim one act of racism by an individual is systemic racism. Well blacks are racist against whites, is that systemic racism against whites?
 
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rturner76

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My definition is the one in the dictionary. But that is irrelevant. You haven't shown systemic racism in definition or practice. You claim one act of racism by an individual is systemic racism. Well blacks are racist against whites, is that systemic racism against whites?
Keep working at it. You need to do more than read a definition to learn about a topic. You have been shown the disparities, you dismiss them so there is no point repeating what others and I have already posted.
 
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IWalkAlone

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Keep working at it. You need to do more than read a definition to learn about a topic. You have been shown the disparities, you dismiss them so there is no point repeating what others and I have already posted.
You haven't shown true systemic racism. Only an example of racism
 
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rturner76

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You haven't shown true systemic racism. Only an example of racism
Many examples have been given in many statistics. You've been told about how laws that the country was built on for 500 years have had an effect on this society and the stain has not washed away. It won't hurt to read more about it than a single definition in a dictionary.
 
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RDKirk

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You will only accept definitions based on your inaccurate definition of what systemic racism is

I'm going to object on the basis of the definition having been changed to push the goalpost back.

Back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s, "systemic racism" did, indeed, refer specifically to laws and policies that themselves created racist structures, not just a word applied to statistics indicating inequity.

That's the same way "racism" itself has been only recently redefined to push the goalpost back.

My suspicion is that we have 'way too many sociologists who don't have enough to do and need to make up stuff for dissertations.

Anyone who experienced the 50s and 60s knows the situation is an order of magnitude better now than it was back then, and that the problem at this point is generational, not structural. As the last whole generation into which racism was inculcated in childhood across the board, Boomers need to die off.
 
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Ken-1122

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There are many "systems" that could be examined. Courts, employment, housing, education, employment, and so on. We aren't talking in all or nothing terms so no people don't all make decisions in these areas strictly by hearts and minds. Raciam is a factor.
Courts, employment, housing, education, and employment. None of those are based strictly on the hearts and minds of individual people. They come with rules and laws designed to accomplish an overall goal, and the laws and rules that govern the Courts, employment, housing, education, and employment specifically forbids racial discrimination/racism. If people who are a part of the above mentioned racially discriminate, they do so in violation of the rules and laws that govern the Courts, employment, housing, education, and employment. So again; whatever racism resulting from the above mentioned, is an example of individual racism, not systemic racism.
Care to try again?
 
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rturner76

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I'm going to object on the basis of the definition having been changed to push the goalpost back.

Back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s, "systemic racism" did, indeed, refer specifically to laws and policies that themselves created racist structures, not just a word applied to statistics indicating inequity.

That's the same way "racism" itself has been only recently redefined to push the goalpost back.

My suspicion is that we have 'way too many sociologists, who don't have enough to do and need to make up stuff for dissertations.

Anyone who experienced the 50s and 60s knows the situation is an order of magnitude better now than it was back then, and that the problem at this point is generational, not structural. As the last whole generation into which racism was inculcated in childhood across the board, Boomers need to die off.
I was just trying to say there is a whole school of thought on the topic. There are courses in college that get all into the subject for a whole semester or even as a course of study on its own. There is more to the topic than one dictionary definition. But I won't disagree that racist views are more prevalent with the older generations and that things have gotten much better.
 
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rturner76

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Courts, employment, housing, education, and employment. None of those are based strictly on the hearts and minds of individual people. They come with rules and laws designed to accomplish an overall goal, and the laws and rules that govern the Courts, employment, housing, education, and employment specifically forbids racial discrimination/racism. If people who are a part of the above mentioned racially discriminate, they do so in violation of the rules and laws that govern the Courts, employment, housing, education, and employment. So again; whatever racism resulting from the above mentioned, is an example of individual racism, not systemic racism.
Care to try again?
It's the system that protects racists in all of those institutions.
 
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Ken-1122

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You will only accept definitions based on your inaccurate definition of what systemic racism is
Just because somebody in academia writes about racism in a journal doesn't mean what they write is true. Academia can be as biased, and inaccurate as anybody else.
 
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rturner76

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Just because somebody in academia writes about racism in a journal doesn't mean what they write is true. Academia can be as biased, and inaccurate as anybody else.
You can learn more about the subject. You might learn something like this whole society, courts, government, is based on Eurocentric values and systems.
 
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rturner76

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Examples?
People get around those laws all of the time. I know in real estate, they teach you how to do it in a slick way so you don't get caught.
 
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RDKirk

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It's the system that protects racists in all of those institutions.

Stamping out all those individual racists is likely to be worse than replacing them by attrition.

Even as a black man, I do not want black people placed into roles just to create equity. I want a fair process, even though I recognize it might have unfair people within it.
 
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Ken-1122

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You can learn more about the subject. You might learn something like this whole society, courts, government, is based on Eurocentric values and systems.
What does that have to do with systemic racism?
People get around those laws all of the time. I know in real estate, they teach you how to do it in a slick way so you don't get caught.
You're making my point. Again; if the system were racist, they wouldn't have to sneak around to do it in a way as to not get caught.
 
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rturner76

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Stamping out all those individual racists is likely to be worse than replacing them by attrition.

Even as a black man, I do not want black people placed into roles just to create equity. I want a fair process, even though I recognize it might have unfair people within it.
I don't want to see that either. That's why I say "hearts and minds" because that's what hasn't finished changing yet. Though it is better.
 
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rturner76

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What does that have to do with systemic racism?

You're making my point. Again; if the system were racist, they wouldn't have to sneak around to do it in a way as to not get caught.
Hearts and minds
 
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RDKirk

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I don't want to see that either. That's why I say "hearts and minds" because that's what hasn't finished changing yet. Though it is better.

Let's not use the Soviet or Chinese method of changing "hearts and minds," however.
 
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rturner76

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Exactly! Hearts and minds lead to individual racism, not systemic racism.
How do you think the hearts and minds got that way? Because the country was never racist? Oh, wait.
 
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