Jesus claimed He came to fulfill the Law, Did He?

[Leaf473]

Brother, I saw the issue and understood again that you are relaying on a bad translation. It would seem that abused is this passage to say the opposite of Jesus' clear message with His death allowing His "daily" intercession to take away our unwanted sins as our High Priest and ultimately transfer all our unwanted sins to Satan through God's forgiveness. The purpose of Jesus as our High Priest is not to take away the law, but to separate us from sin in a cycle of growth through forgiveness that ultimately transfers our unwanted sins to Satan.

Here is the main point: We have a High Priest who sat down in the place of honor beside the throne of the majestic God in heaven. There he ministers in the heavenly Tabernacle, the true place of worship that was built by the Lord and not by human hands. And since every high priest is required to offer gifts and sacrifices, our High Priest must make an offering, too. If he were here on earth, he would not even be a priest, since there already are priests who offer the gifts required by the law. They serve in a system of worship that is only a copy, a shadow of the real one in heaven. For when Moses was getting ready to build the Tabernacle, God gave him this warning: “Be sure that you make everything according to the pattern I have shown you here on the mountain.” But now Jesus, our High Priest, has been given a ministry that is far superior to the old priesthood, for he is the one who mediates for us a far better covenant with God, based on better promises. (Hebrews 8:1-6 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

The translation I'm using for this discussion is the NIV. I believe that's what you are using as well.

The passage in Matthew 5 talks about the smallest letter not disappearing from the law.

When I asked you about a statute disappearing from the law, I believe you said that would mean it had been achieved. Yes? No?

 

[guevaraj]

The translation I'm using for this discussion is the NIV. I believe that's what you are using as well. The passage in Matthew 5 talks about the smallest letter not disappearing from the law. When I asked you about a statute disappearing from the law, I believe you said that would mean it had been achieved. Yes? No?

Brother, I do not commit to any translations, they are not inspired. Only the original is the inspired word of God! I gave you a different translation that does not suggest that achieved is everything with the slightest change in the law. A fulfilled part does not fulfill all when there is more to fulfill.

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. (Matthew 5:18 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, I do not commit to any translations, they are not inspired. Only the original is the inspired word of God! I gave you a different translation that does not suggest that achieved is everything with the slightest change in the law. A fulfilled part does not fulfill all when there is more to fulfill.

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. (Matthew 5:18 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Are you taking that to mean that the smallest detail of God’s law will not disappear until the purpose of the law is achieved?

Or that as the purpose of each part of the law is achieved, that part will disappear?

Something else?

 

[guevaraj]

Are you taking that to mean that the smallest detail of God’s law will not disappear until the purpose of the law is achieved? Or that as the purpose of each part of the law is achieved, that part will disappear? Something else?

Brother, each fulfilled part of the law changes from something temporary to its eternal reality, the same will happen in the future with the temple when a building is no longer needed.

I saw no temple in the city, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. (Revelation 21:22 NLT)​

The Gentiles who are turning to God want God to change, they do not want to obey the commandments of the past, but He does not change and we are the ones who have to change. Laws against sin remain as long as there is sin.

I am the LORD, and I do not change. (Malachi 3:6a NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge.

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, each fulfilled part of the law changes from something temporary to its internal reality, the same will happen in the future with the temple when a building is no longer needed.

I saw no temple in the city, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. (Revelation 21:22 NLT)​

The Gentiles who are turning to God want God to change, they do not want to obey the commandments of the past, but He does not change and we are the ones who have to change. Laws against sin remain as long as there is sin.

I am the LORD, and I do not change. (Malachi 3:6a NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge.

Okay, that sounds like this:

As the purpose of each part of the law is achieved, that part will disappear.

"The purpose of each part of the law is achieved" is the same as "fulfilled", and "disappear" means "changes from something temporary to its internal reality".

So when a part of the law is fulfilled, it changes from something temporary to its internal reality.

Is that what you're saying?

 

[guevaraj]

Okay, that sounds like this: As the purpose of each part of the law is achieved, that part will disappear. "The purpose of each part of the law is achieved" is the same as "fulfilled", and "disappear" means "changes from something temporary to its internal reality". So when a part of the law is fulfilled, it changes from something temporary to its internal reality. Is that what you're saying?

Brother, when reading your summary I realized that I had misspelled a word, I meant eternal, not internal. I'm sorry I didn't find the misspelling sooner. I changed my original post.

“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. “But I warn you—unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven! (Matthew 5:17-20 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[prophecy_uk]

You do realize you are going in circles, for nothing.


The law was changed, because it was magnified and made honourable.



It no longer was honourable to kill anyone taken in Adultery, because just by looking on a woman for lust, is adultery.

It no longer was law to hate your enemies, because God shows love for His enemies too, by giving His life a sacrifice for all ( good and evil)

No longer to be in danger of the judgement for killing only, because by being angry now, was being unfaithful.

No longer to make oaths ( which are blasphemy by not being kept) but to be humble now, to do things quietly, in secret to God, and not by exaltation to men.




Regarding sabbath, it no longer was refraining from doing well and good on sabbath, it was especially doing well and good for others on sabbath, as Jesus did show is lawful.

But, you cannot do well and good, unless you first lose your life ( in faith to Christ) to find i again, we must first seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness ( not being faithless as the Gentiles to ask what shall we eat, or drink or be clothed with)

Those are the things Jesus came to fulfil and did, and Israel fulfilled in hating Him for that, as that proved they were in sin for not believing in Him.




Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, when reading your summary I realized that I had misspelled a word, I meant eternal, not internal. I'm sorry I didn't find the misspelling sooner. I changed my original post.

“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. “But I warn you—unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven! (Matthew 5:17-20 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Okay, this part of the passage here:

"...not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved."

Are you taking the "its" above to refer to the entire law as in:
"...not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear from the entire law until the purpose of the entire law is achieved."

Or are you taking the "its" to mean part of the law.
This would mean that as the purpose of each part of the law is achieved, that part of the law disappears as in:

"...not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until the purpose of that detail is achieved."

 

[guevaraj]

Okay, this part of the passage here: "...not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved." Are you taking the "its" above to refer to the entire law as in: "...not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear from the entire law until the purpose of the entire law is achieved." Or are you taking the "its" to mean part of the law. This would mean that as the purpose of each part of the law is achieved, that part of the law disappears as in: "...not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until the purpose of that detail is achieved."

Brother, the second option, where achieved is each part at different times.

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. (Matthew 5:18 NLT)​

Previously, animal sacrifices, later the temple as a building in heaven.

I saw no temple in the city, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. (Revelation 21:22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, the second option, where achieved is each part at different times.

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. (Matthew 5:18 NLT)​

Previously, animal sacrifices, later the temple as a building in heaven.

I saw no temple in the city, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. (Revelation 21:22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Okay, and how does it work in your mind when you come to a law like this from Leviticus 19:19
Don’t wear a garment made of two kinds of material.

What is the purpose of this law, and has it been achieved?

 

[guevaraj]

Okay, and how does it work in your mind when you come to a law like this from Leviticus 19:19 Don’t wear a garment made of two kinds of material. What is the purpose of this law, and has it been achieved?

Brother, God has something to say even about what we wear. To me, it sounds like an outward expression that God wants us pure and He still wants us to practice these decrees.

“You must obey all my decrees. “Do not mate two different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two different kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven from two different kinds of thread. (Leviticus 19:19 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, God has something to say even about what we wear. To me, it sounds like an outward expression that God wants us pure and He still wants us to practice these decrees.

“You must obey all my decrees. “Do not mate two different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two different kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven from two different kinds of thread. (Leviticus 19:19 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You don't wear clothes made from more than one kind of thread? Interesting! Where do you shop for clothes, since most manufactured close today use multiple fabrics?
(At least I think they do.)

But also then, if the purpose of that law is to make us pure,
and Christ has purified us with his blood,
wouldn't the purpose of that law have been achieved?

 

[guevaraj]

You don't wear clothes made from more than one kind of thread? Interesting! Where do you shop for clothes, since most manufactured close today use multiple fabrics? (At least I think they do.) But also then, if the purpose of that law is to make us pure, and Christ has purified us with his blood, wouldn't the purpose of that law have been achieved?

Brother, happy Sabbath! You might be right, it was not repeated in the New Testament like the Sabbath. The message of Hebrews 3 and 4 identifies the word "rest" as a reference to when God rested from His labor after creating the world on the seventh day of creation week. When you realize that the meaning of the word "rest" remains the same throughout the message, there are two announcements about this "rest". First, they did not enter that "rest" during the 40 years they kept the seventh day of the week with Manna near the Promised Land. Second, Joshua did not give them that "rest" even though they entered God's Sabbath "rest" in the Promised Land. The difference between the Sabbath with Manna for 40 years and the Sabbath in the Promised Land is that with Manna it was the seventh day of the week from morning to morning which was the wrong Sabbath near the Promised Land where it is from evening to evening, falling in the Promised Land between two days of the week because remembered is the Sabbath in the Eden time zone.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” (Hebrews 4:1-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, happy Sabbath!

Happy Sabbath to you too, my Brother! And happy First day of the week after that, and happy Second day of the week after that, and so on... !!!

You might be right, it was not repeated in the New Testament like the Sabbath.

I might be right, but you don't know for sure?

For me, this is the issue with saying that only some of the laws have disappeared. No one will say which ones have disappeared and which ones are still around.

If sin is transgression of the law, then it it's really important to know for sure what those laws are.

I'll be happy to talk about the Sabbath and Hebrews once we come up with a way to know which laws have disappeared.

 

[guevaraj]

I'll be happy to talk about the Sabbath and Hebrews once we come up with a way to know which laws have disappeared.

Brother, happy Sabbath! It is better to use God's distinction of the laws that stay and not our own ideas. All laws stay "until its purpose is achieved".

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. (Matthew 5:18 NLT)​

If you must know my thinking on the issue, certainly those laws that repeated are in the New Testament like the Sabbath stay. Something else I can say is that nothing really disappears, the eternal reality remains after the temporary law because they come from the unchanging character of God. If you think that something has disappeared from the law, there is a corresponding replacement that is more glories than the temporal law that helped us better understand the greater reality that supersedes it.

I am the LORD, and I do not change. (Malachi 3:6a NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, happy Sabbath! It is better to use God's distinction of the laws that stay and not our own ideas. All laws stay "until its purpose is achieved".

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. (Matthew 5:18 NLT)​

If you must know my thinking on the issue, certainly those laws that repeated are in the New Testament like the Sabbath stay. Something else I can say is that nothing really disappears, the eternal reality remains after the temporary law because they come from the unchanging character of God. If you think that something has disappeared from the law, there is a corresponding replacement that is more glories than the temporal law that helped us better understand the greater reality that supersedes it.

I am the LORD, and I do not change. (Malachi 3:6a NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hmmm... following your train of thought, the feast of Tabernacles is repeated in John 7. That law has not yet disappeared, then?

 

[guevaraj]

Hmmm... following your train of thought, the feast of Tabernacles is repeated in John 7. That law has not yet disappeared, then?

Brother, I see that my words were not specific enough. What I meant by "those laws that repeated are in the New Testament like the Sabbath stay" is better said as "those laws that repeated are under the new covenant like the Sabbath stay." The message of Hebrews 3 and 4 begins and ends under the new covenant with Jesus as our "High Priest". I have a thread titled "Hebrews 3 and 4 is God's weekly Sabbath for everyone", where God says that this law has not even begun to achieve its purpose outside of the Promised Land until corrected is the wrong assumption since Joshua that the Sabbath in the Promised Land is a day of the week as it was in Eden when it is not because God taught them in the Promised Land to remember the Sabbath in the Eden time zone.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, I see that my words were not specific enough. What I meant by "those laws that repeated are in the New Testament like the Sabbath stay" is better said as "those laws that repeated are under the new covenant like the Sabbath stay." The message of Hebrews 3 and 4 begins and ends under the new covenant with Jesus as our "High Priest". I have a thread titled "Hebrews 3 and 4 is God's weekly Sabbath for everyone", where God says that this law has not even begun to achieve its purpose outside of the Promised Land until corrected is the wrong assumption since Joshua that the Sabbath in the Promised Land is a day of the week as it was in Eden when it is not because God taught them in the Promised Land to remember the Sabbath in the Eden time zone.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Do you mean that those laws that are repeated in the scriptures after Jesus begins the New covenant stay,
but all the rest disappear?

 

[guevaraj]

Do you mean that those laws that are repeated in the scriptures after Jesus begins the New covenant stay, but all the rest disappear?

Brother, God doesn't have to repeat His laws to stay, but if He repeats them in the Scriptures after Jesus begins the new covenant, as is the case with the Sabbath in Hebrews 3 and 4, then the Sabbath certainly stays. I'm sure in the Scriptures about the Sabbath, but not about whether it is proper to use blends now. After hearing how God feels about what I wear, I should wear all-cotton than blends.

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. (Matthew 5:18 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, God doesn't have to repeat His laws to stay, but if He repeats them in the Scriptures after Jesus begins the new covenant, as is the case with the Sabbath in Hebrews 3 and 4, then the Sabbath certainly stays. I'm sure in the Scriptures about the Sabbath, but not about whether it is proper to use blends now. After hearing how God feels about what I wear, I should wear all-cotton than blends.

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. (Matthew 5:18 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Do you mean if a law is repeated in the New covenant as something that we are told to do, or just if the law is mentioned?