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MARK OF THE BEAST - REVELATION 13-14; 17; 18

Douggg

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How do you get the eighth king out of Revelation 13?
The beast is the eighth king and is of the seven, Revelation 17:11.

In Revelation 13, king 7 the mortally wounded/but healed head, becomes king 8 after being healed.

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Douggg

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Says John from Chapter 1 of Revelation
You had made a statement about what the first century Christians thought about Revelation - but you were not there to know what they thought about Revelation. Don't twist it and claim John is saying your words.
 
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parousia70

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No - I want us to read it properly so that we can learn what we are meant to get out of it.

Imagine if I just randomly started asserting that the epistle to the Corinthians or Galatians or Romans wasn't to them - but "Is relevant to believers through out the centuries for it involves the unveiling of the Head of the Body, the Heir of the world, the Mediator of the New Covenant, and the Judge & Creator of all things new."

It's avoiding the question.

It's to John's generation of suffering Christians - just as Galatians was once to a church in Galatia and Romans to Christians in Rome. But we can still learn a thing or two from those letters, can't we?
I always wonder why futurists aren’t all building Arks in their backyards and collecting animals two by two….
I mean, they do insist the Bible is written to ALL of us, and we should ALL follow EVERY admonition found therein after all…
 
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eclipsenow

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More abstract nowhere arguments that Amil specializes in.
Just showing you what futurism does to John's generation.

"to show his servants what must soon take place" (Verse 1)
"blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it" (Verse 3)
"because the time is near." (Verse 3)
"I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus." ( ESV - Verse 9)
 
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eclipsenow

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I always wonder why futurists aren’t all building Arks in their backyards and collecting animals two by two….
I mean, they do insist the Bible is written to ALL of us, and we should ALL follow EVERY admonition found therein after all…
Exactly! In fact, now that I've been in lockdown for so long should I not have got my haircut? If I'd just kept the mullet maybe by now I'd be able to go Hulk - but of course - only if I grab a jawbone.

Judges 15:16 - "Then Samson said, “With a donkey’s jawbone I have made donkeys of them. With a donkey’s jawbone I have killed a thousand men.”​

As I ask futurists - did Sampson have a book-keeper with a clipboard to count all these 'literal' casualties? "998, 999, 1000 THAT'S IT! JAWBONE DOWN SAMPSON!!!"
 
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Douggg

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"to show his servants what must soon take place" (Verse 1)
A person can know for 100% 20/20 hindsight that statement did not mean the first century, right then - because the earth on which we live is still here, not destroyed.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Every generation of Christians who study Revelation is blessed to know what is expected of him/her until Jesus comes. And about the rewards of "he that overcometh".

Really, I don't understand why you continue, as you are living in the day and age when Jesus will be returning. Maybe you like making academic arguments.
 
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parousia70

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A person can know for 100% 20/20 hindsight that statement did not mean the first century, right then - because the earth on which we live is still here, not destroyed.
Or, the astute Bible expositor can determine that, since scripture is replete with prophesies of past judgements upon individual nations that the prophets always described in language that evoked “earth and universe ending cataclysm”, that such language is commonly used by the prophets of the Bible to describe the temporal judgments of individual nations, and was never meant to be taken literally.

Every generation of Christians who study Revelation, is blessed to what is expected of him/her until Jesus comes. And about the rewards of "he that overcometh".

Such makes absolutely no sense. There is absolutely no benefit that the Christian from the year 1635, (or 1242, or 763, or 1801) received from believing and proclaiming that the end would be in his generation, as you are asserting scripture (falsely) taught him to believe and proclaim.

Really, I don't understand why you continue, as you are living in the day and age when Jesus will be returning. Maybe you like making academic arguments.

The apostles all believed and taught that they were living in the day and age when Jesus would be returning. I am inclined to believe them over you.

I don’t understand why you would hang your hat with a group who has a 100% end time prediction failure rate.
 
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eclipsenow

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A person can know for 100% 20/20 hindsight that statement did not mean the first century, right then - because the earth on which we live is still here, not destroyed.

WRONG!

Revelation is a symbolic sermon that waltzes and waltzes around themes of suffering in chaos, tyrants hurting God's people, etc - with the GOSPEL PROMISE that one day Jesus would return at the end of the age and clean everything up.

Indeed, we KNOW it is NOT a timeline BECAUSE that gospel promise is repeated 3 times in the book.
At the end of Revelation 6 Jesus returns, Revelation 19, and Revelation 20.

Every generation of Christians who study Revelation is blessed to know what is expected of him/her until Jesus comes. And about the rewards of "he that overcometh".
Really? And what End-Times-Table is it that we are expected to be blessed by? :doh:Which individual timetable about which 21st Century technology in which 21st Century nation is it that blessed first century Christians? :doh: Listen - you can tell yourself the previous 20 centuries of Christians were 'blessed' to be patronised, but I won't. It's like, "Awww, poor first century Christians being hacked to death in the arena by lions. But you ain't seen NOTHING yet - just wait till you meet the ANTI-CHRIST! Mwha hwa hwa!" As IF John would write to his generation like that.

He shared in their tribulation.
I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus,

Look up how many times 'patient endurance' is repeated through Revelation! It's his catch-phrase for suffering saints. He's demonstrating it for his generation. The tribulation started then.




Really, I don't understand why you continue, as you are living in the day and age when Jesus will be returning.
And if you're wrong and in 100 years young Christians read your timetables? Will they be encouraged that so many Christians predicted so much junk that just didn't happen?
 
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Douggg

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Douggg

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Indeed, we KNOW it is NOT a timeline BECAUSE that gospel promise is repeated 3 times in the book.
At the end of Revelation 6 Jesus returns, Revelation 19, and Revelation 20.
Revelation provides the timeline framework for the events leading up to Jesus's Return. By which a timeline can be developed by a person willing to do so.

Just as Ezekiel 39 provides the infallible timeline framework for end times events to fit into.

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Douggg

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Really? And what End-Times-Table is it that we are expected to be blessed by? :doh:Which individual timetable about which 21st Century technology in which 21st Century nation is it that blessed first century Christians? :doh: Listen - you can tell yourself the previous 20 centuries of Christians were 'blessed' to be patronised, but I won't. It's like, "Awww, poor first century Christians being hacked to death in the arena by lions. But you ain't seen NOTHING yet - just wait till you meet the ANTI-CHRIST! Mwha hwa hwa!" As IF John would write to his generation like that.
I have already addressed how the first century Christians and every generation of Christians are blessed by reading Revelation.

MARK OF THE BEAST - REVELATION 13-14; 17; 18

My post # 510.
 
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Douggg

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And if you're wrong and in 100 years young Christians read your timetables? Will they be encouraged that so many Christians predicted so much junk that just didn't happen?
More abstract nowhere arguments that Amil specializes in.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The beast is the eighth king and is of the seven, Revelation 17:11.

In Revelation 13, king 7 the mortally wounded/but healed head, becomes king 8 after being healed.

View attachment 308435

Sorry Doug that does not match up with Revelation 13 whatsoever. What is the source of this information your putting fourth? It is complete nonsense. There is a lot of reading into the scriptures here and we are told that no prophecy is of any private interpretation. I guess there is as many interpretations of the book of Revelation as there are different Christian religions around the world. Sadly this was also foretold by Jesus.
 
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Marilyn C

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I agree - which is why I am Amil, and why John wrote his message to his generation - so that they - and the rest of us - could comprehend the message, be encouraged by it, and learn from it.

However it doesn`t mean that all that was written happened to the first century believers. That would make revelation a nonsense. Jesus has NOT judged the nations yet or many of the other events yet to occur in Revelation.
 
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eclipsenow

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A lot of work has been done on the teaching ministries of the New Testament church, and in the 'gifts' - prophecy is less some sort of version of Christian Crystal Ball - and more about applying the gospel to a particular time and place. Which is exactly what Amils have been saying about Revelation all along.
 
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eclipsenow

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However it doesn`t mean that all that was written happened to the first century believers. That would make revelation a nonsense.

How so? Here's the gospel.
"Repent and believe and be baptised, and withstand many trials and tribulations, and understand that you are now saved but must continue trusting in the Lord - because one day the Lord is going to return."

That is what Revelation says.
Only it goes into more detail on the types of tyrant, natural disaster, and temptations to trust in wealth that this age (between Jesus Resurrection and Return) has to offer.

Jesus has NOT judged the nations yet or many of the other events yet to occur in Revelation.
No he hasn't - but that's the PROMISE of Revelation, not the time-table.
BTW - it's not a timetable or linear sequence of events - because it repeats.
Jesus judges the world in Revelation 6, 19, and 20.
We see the end of the world from a bunch of different camera angles.
 
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eclipsenow

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I guess there is as many interpretations of the book of Revelation as there are different Christian religions around the world. Sadly this was also foretold by Jesus.

There are VASTLY more private interpretations of Revelation than there are Christian denominations.
Why? Because right here I've seen futurists from similar Pentecostal backgrounds all arguing hammer and tongs over this or that particular 'prophecy' or 'prediction' or interpretation.

I'm sticking with Reformed Covenant Theology Amillennialism, as expressed at the sources below.

To understand further, I recommend these 2 videos - 4 million views and rising.



To go deeper try Dr Paul Barnett - Phd in Ancient History, theologian and retired Sydney Anglican Bishop.
"Apocalypse Now and Then".
https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-now-then-reading-Revelation/dp/0949108421
 
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Douggg

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Sorry Doug that does not match up with Revelation 13 whatsoever. What is the source of this information your putting fourth? It is complete nonsense. There is a lot of reading into the scriptures here and we are told that no prophecy is of any private interpretation. I guess there is as many interpretations of the book of Revelation as there are different Christian religions around the world. Sadly this was also foretold by Jesus.
You had asked me where the eighth king, the beast, is in Revelation 13. He is the mortally wounded but come back to life head.

Hasn't happen yet. The little horn person (who becomes the beast) has not come to power yet either. The person will be cast alive into the lake of fire when
Jesus returns.

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