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MARK OF THE BEAST - REVELATION 13-14; 17; 18

Douggg

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So what is signing your NAME on a cheque all about?

It is not so much the name of the A/C but his authority over the Global Government.
There are certainly implications regarding the name, the number of his name, the mark of his name. In all of those implications, they all are dependent upon his name. What it is right now, I don't think anyone knows.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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There are certainly implications regarding the name, the number of his name, the mark of his name. In all of those implications, they all are dependent upon his name. What it is right now, I don't think anyone knows.
For me I disagree Doug. As shown in post # 468 linked and post # 474 linked as well as what has already been provided in this OP on Daniel and Revelations, it is pretty clear that the number of the beast which is a number of the man is the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church.

Take Care.
 
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eclipsenow

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The fulfillments in Revelation (and Daniel) identifying apostate Romanism began in the 5th century, and continued to their primary culmination in the Protestant Reformation of the 16th-17th centuries.

Primarily in the past, but of great prophetic relevance and significance to the true Church over those centuries, and to today.

Even this view simply bypasses Chapter 1.

1. "to show his servants what must soon take place" (Verse 1)
This is different to the normal 'Jesus is coming back soon' and 'Today is the day of salvation' call. This is specific. Soon TAKE PLACE. Particular things are about to happen, and John wants to write about them.

2. "blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it" (Verse 3)
That is, he wants them to meditate on it and obey it. How do you obey something written about and to people thousands of years later? Forget that - how do you even understand it? Imagine getting this message?
"On Mars most red in the year 4000 AD, the Zorg will Zazzle the Marines in Valles Marineris - and the smoke will rise to the heavens." Now obey this! See, if the command is not to you or about you - you cannot obey it. Period. There's nothing to take to heart, nothing to understand about you and your suffering. So how on earth do you obey this? You can barely even comprehend it - and even if you could - it's not to your and your situation or even about you. John's generation couldn't obey it. Not only that, what good has it been for the church for the last 2000 years - it's not about or to them - so how do they benefit? If anything makes me reject futurist readings of Revelation it is that it would render the majority of Revelation as utterly useless to Christians across the last 2000 years - and do nothing except confuse us and make us argue. That's simply NOT in the mission statement of Scripture as we read it in 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

3. "because the time is near." (Verse 3)
How many times does John have to say it in the one chapter for futurists to understand? I know it's exciting if Revelation is about us and our times. But surely there's a bit of narcissism in wanting it to be all about us? Surely there's a bit of a Messiah-complex we have as well, where WE want to be the ones that decode it FOR REAL THIS TIME (unlike the 10,000 other failed predictions and timelines out there). I think many of us want to be like Sarah Connor from the Terminator movies - full of certainty and dreadful purpose for the next few years. Fun movies - but give me a break! We are meant to be driven by Jesus' mission for the world - not endless arguing over our own navel gazing about what Revelation 'means to us'.

4. "I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus." ( ESV - Verse 9)

John is already in the tribulation. It's already started - and John wants them to understand what to do ('endure with patient endurance' - a catchphrase through out the book - HINT HINT!) and what it means that God's chosen children should suffer like this. He wants them to obey it for real - because he's right there with them.
 
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Douggg

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For me I disagree Doug. As shown in post # 468 linked and post # 474 linked as well as what has already been provided in this OP on Daniel and Revelations, it is pretty clear that the number of the beast which is a number of the man is the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church.

Take Care.
The beast is time of the end and a specific one individual person. Not a position, which has had a multitude persons occupying over time.

At Jesus's return in Revelation 19, that one specific individual person will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

The multitude of persons as Popes nearly all are all gone, long dead... which cannot possibly fit into what is going to happen at Jesus return in Revelation 19.
 
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eclipsenow

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The beast is time of the end and a specific one individual person. Not a position, which has had a multitude persons occupying.

At Jesus's return in Revelation 19, that one specific individual person will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

The multitude of persons as Popes nearly all are all gone, long dead... which cannot possibly fit into what is going to happen at Jesus return in Revelation 19.
Naaah.


Deuteronomy 6:4-8 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads."

Then when we come to Revelation 13, we have Military power represented in the first beast and the propaganda machine for Economic power in the second beast. Now, what's with the 666? First, the Hebrew number symbolism is significant, in that 6 is the number of a man. It's the number of the day we were created on, the days of the week we work, and short of God's perfect 7. There's also another potential twist - the gematria (taking Hebrew letters as numbers) for both "BEAST" and / or "Nero Caesar" apparently both equal 666 when added up from the Hebrew.

In other words, don't bind your politics and materialism to your hands and forehead. Don't worship your leader or money. Stay true to Christ - no matter what happens. Jesus is worth it. Instead - be one of those in the very next Chapter that have their Father's name written on their foreheads! This rings far more true than some silicon chip implant. I mean, are we really going to give someone like the head of Microsoft MORE power than Jesus? Jesus died and rose again for all those who trust in him, and then Satya Nadella comes along and sticks a chip in your hand and forehead and suddenly you've lost your salvation?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The beast is time of the end and a specific one individual person. Not a position, which has had a multitude persons occupying over time.

At Jesus's return in Revelation 19, that one specific individual person will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

The multitude of persons as Popes nearly all are all gone, long dead... which cannot possibly fit into what is going to happen at Jesus return in Revelation 19.

For me I do not see that Doug but let me explain why if it might be helpful.

Revelation 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the NUMBER OF HIS NAME. [18], Here is wisdom. LET HIM THAT HAS UNDERSTANDING COUNT (add up) THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST: FOR IT IS THE NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is SIX HUNDRED THREE SCORE AND SIX (666).

From the scriptures we can see that we identify who the first beast of Revelation 13 is by identifying the number of a man that is associated with the beast and his number is 666. The scripture says "Let him that has understanding count (ψηφίζω; psēphízō; G5585). The Greek word here means add up "the number of the beast for it is the number of a man" This is what has been shown in post # 468 linked.

The scripture does not say anywhere that the number of this man that identifies the Beast of Revelation 13 is a summary of the beasts character because the beast is never a man in bible prophecy. To come up with that interpretation you have to read that into the scripture and disregard that the scripture says (not me) that "the number of the beast is a number of a man" and that number adds up to 666.

Now it is not a specific individual but a man that is connected to the beast whose name adds up to 666. The Roman Catholic Church (1st beast) is connected to the Pope as the symbolic head of the church and the Popes title adds up to 666 in three different languages. The scriptures do not say the fifth or sixth man. It says "the number of the beast is a number of a man" The Pope's title fits this position perfectly and his name adds up to 666 in Latin, Hebrew and Greek.

Take Care.
 
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Douggg

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Now it is not a specific individual. The scriptures do not say the fifth or sixth man. It says "the number of the beast is a number of a man" The pope fits this position perfectly and his name adds up to 666 in Latin, Hebrew and Greek.
In Revelation 17:10-11, the beast is the eighth king - a man.
 
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Douggg

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jgr

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Even this view simply bypasses Chapter 1.

Not at all.

There was much inside and outside of the new Church that was of prophetic significance and relevance to it beginning at that time.

Paul said that the mystery of iniquity "doth already work" (2 Thessalonians 2:7). His descriptions in 2 Thessalonians 2 leave no doubt that he was referring to nascent Romanism.

John said that even now there were many antichrists present. ( 1 John 2:18). Nascent Romanism was one of them.

Paul's and John's recognition of nascent Romanism did not "bypass Chapter 1".
 
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jgr

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Douggg

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Let's test your ability to understand English.

Provide for us a verbatim copy/paste quote of LGW claiming that 666 is the number of the name Pope.
In LGW's post #486....

"The Roman Catholic Church (1st beast) is connected to the Pope as the symbolic head of the church and the Popes title adds up to 666 in three different languages."

I am pointing out that Pope is not a name. The 666 is the number of the beast's name.

The beast is a single person, the 8th king in Revelation 17:11.
 
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jgr

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In LGW's post #786....

"The Roman Catholic Church (1st beast) is connected to the Pope as the symbolic head of the church and the Popes title adds up to 666 in three different languages."

I am pointing out that Pope is not a name. The 666 is the number of the beast's name.

The beast is a single person, the 8th king in Revelation 17:11.

There is no post 786. You must mean 468.

In it LGW provides an alphanumeric breakdown of the various titles and names associated with the pope which add up to 666 in Greek, Hebrew, and Latin.

There is no breakdown showing that "pope" adds up to 666. There is no claim that "pope" is such a name.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The 666 is the number of his name.
Pope is not a name.

666 is the number of His name. Post # 486 and elsewhere calculate the number of the official titles of the Pope's names given by the Roman Catholic Church to the Pope as it's head in Latin, Greek and Hebrew.

Revelation 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the NUMBER OF HIS NAME. [18], Here is wisdom. LET HIM THAT HAS UNDERSTANDING COUNT (add up) THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST: FOR IT IS THE NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is SIX HUNDRED THREE SCORE AND SIX (666).

Take Care.
 
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Douggg

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In it LGW provides an alphanumeric breakdown of the various titles and names associated with the pope which add up to 666 in Greek, Hebrew, and Latin.

Let's test your ability to understand English.

In LGW's post 486, do a copy and paste which he said "names" associated with the pope.
 
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Douggg

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666 is the number of His name. Post # 486 and elsewhere calculate the number of the official titles of the Pope's names given by the Roman Catholic Church to the Pope as it's head in Latin, Greek and Hebrew.

Revelation 13:17-18 [17], And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the NUMBER OF HIS NAME. [18], Here is wisdom. LET HIM THAT HAS UNDERSTANDING COUNT (add up) THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST: FOR IT IS THE NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is SIX HUNDRED THREE SCORE AND SIX (666).

Take Care.
It is name singular in Revelation 13:17, not names.

The title of Pope is not any of the person's who occupied that position - name.
 
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jgr

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Let's test your ability to understand English.

In LGW's post 486, do a copy and paste which he said "names" associated with the pope.

You are a man.
There are three names associated with you: first, middle, and last.
The pope is a man.
There are a number of names associated with him.
They appear in post 486.
 
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Douggg

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You are a man.
There are three names associated with you: first, middle, and last.
The pope is a man.
There are a number of names associated with him.
They appear in post 486.
You did not do a copy and paste.
 
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